Author Topic: IDEA: A Custom Page for Inno Setup showing DoCo info and donation benefits (Read 23817 times)

Ath · « **on:** March 10, 2011, 02:46 PM »

Hi,

Today worstje came with the great idea of adding a custom Donation Coder page to the JottiQ (Inno Setup) installer (I helped him finish that by adding the .NET/VC++ runtime dependency stuff), to be featured in the next release of JottiQ.
This page should show a text with/including 1 or 2 links that would promote this wonderful site, and convince anyone even slightly interested into making at least a visit to the site, and ofcourse consider to donate while visiting.

The custom page I'll quite easily mock up (this weekend I'll have time for that, it'll be a free 'plug-in' for all dc members using Inno Setup),
it's the text that should go in there that's bugging me a little.

I could copy/paste the text from the left column of the Donation page, but that's quite long to show while pressing next, next, finish during the installation process. I firmly oppose to adding a time-delay to that page (though not impossible; it could even be a delay for the 1st pass only, even when passing multiple times), but all the other apps/installers adding delays or other tricks (scrolling down the entire Windows NT 4 EULA during install to be able to press F8 to continue, comes to mind

, and the silly WinZip shareware page where you press 1 of 3 buttons to continue, I often find on co-worker PC's), still these EULA/Shareware pages are not read in the way the supplier had in mind.

If there is an official "short version" of the Donation page text available, I'll be happy to use that, if not: any advise is more than welcome.

For those that haven't noticed, English is not my native language, so any spelling or grammar bloopers would have to be fixed as well

It's a bit of a pity that nobody, including myself, came with this idea earlier, so it could have been used for all apps released during the fundraiser (that need an installer), but when done right (and I intend to do that...) it's usable for more than this fundraiser alone.

worstje · « **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2011, 03:25 PM »

I want to note that the text/purpose I had in mind was aimed more-so at introducing other DoCo applications and the concept of DonationWare than out-right begging for donations on behalf of DoCo or myself. I've got no real interest in those things, and I tend to feel that people everywhere have been ('properly') immunitized to those (Paypal) Donate! things by now.

My guess is that a lot of applications do not end up in the hands of the end-user through DonationCoder. Thus, a simple page with extra information in an installer would be a nice sort of publicity campaign. An explicit This page is informational only, and no extra 'bundled' software will be installed. message might be useful to add at the bottom, just in case people go into ADSPYCRAPWARE mode the moment they see something that does not involve the name of the application itself.

mouser · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2011, 03:33 PM »

i think this is a great idea -- though i'm actually not so concerned with promoting DC -- but i can see the real value of having a recognizable page with cody on it that tells people that the author is a member of DonationCoder and encourages them to DONATE TO THE AUTHOR. Encouraging them to visit the site is nice too, but i love the idea of spreading the recognizability of software that people should donate for.

Combine it with a sample simple license text that outlines free-for-personal use, permission for commercial use, and it would be really useful.

Ath · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2011, 12:54 PM »

I've thrown something together, except for the text that I got from the Lorem ipsum generator ~~Renegade~~ cranioscopical (

) did a recent micro-mini-review of:

IDEA: A Custom Page for Inno Setup showing DoCo info and donation benefits

And with the 'Donate to author' not #defined in the script (disables the creation of the link-control)

IDEA: A Custom Page for Inno Setup showing DoCo info and donation benefits

And for those where "Cody should be on the 'right' side"

, that's just a #define switch away

IDEA: A Custom Page for Inno Setup showing DoCo info and donation benefits
(Cody is clickable, hence the hand cursor)

Any replies are welcome,

mouser · « **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2011, 03:05 PM »

Looking nice..
There is a transparent version of that cody image somewhere i can try to find it, if you can use it.

Once you get it looking the way you want i'd like to see a version that is more focused on "Why you should donate to the author" rather that "What is donationcoder"

Maybe something like, at top instead of "DonationCoder Userpage" it might say "This is a Donationware Application"
With top text saying "This application is free for personal use, but the author strongly requests that you make a donation if you find it useful. Commercial inquiries welcome."

And then the main window could have headline "How Do I Donate?"
With text something like:
"Donating is safe and easy, and comes with some serious benefits!

The author of this program is part of the DonationCoder.com community -- and asks that you make a donation to to them if you find this program useful, in order to support it's continued development and support.

Blah blah more details here on how to send a donation directly to the author and other links.."

Ath · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2011, 03:11 PM »

Once you get it looking the way you want i'd like to see a version that is more focused on "Why you should donate to the author" rather that "What is donationcoder"
-mouser (March 12, 2011, 03:05 PM)

That's the kind of text I was asking for

But I couldn't find anything that fitted the bill on the site, maybe it's there, then a pointer would help.

There is a transparent version of that cody image somewhere i can try to find it, if you can use it.
-mouser (March 12, 2011, 03:05 PM)

It has to be bmp format, and as I haven't checked for transparency settings in the image control, can't tell yet if that helps or even would look better...

MilesAhead · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2011, 05:47 PM »

If you would like to spif up the installer with a skin I've used this free tool for Inno Setup in the past:

http://isskin.codejo...com/visualstyles.asp

The overhead is a dll that loads the visual style, then unloads it when the installer quits.

Someone artistically inclined could do better, but this is one I did for one of my installers:

edit: this could limit you to a 32 bit version of the installer. I haven't used ISSkin in awhile. I don't know if they have 64 bit dlls available.

jgpaiva · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2011, 06:16 PM »

This is an awesome idea! I will add it to GridMove (assuming you'll share it

)

worstje · « **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2011, 06:49 PM »

Well, we obviously all have very different ideas about this, which is good.

As my angle was for JottiQ, I am really uncomfortable with any sort of 'donate to me specifically' text as it just does not fit the spirit with which I have worked on the program and the support I have had from Jotti. Of course, I do understand that for most programs, that is not really an issue, so I'll leave my exact opinion about that up in the air until I see what the text and such turn out as.

More strongly though, I am unhappy with the idea of adding 'This Is DonationWare' at the top. And I am referring to that specific sentence. Why? It implies people are required to donate, but that is not true. It would be a free (as in gratis) program for all, with the ability to make a small donation as thanks. The word donationware just gives me the chills: I get the mental image of some extortionist picking you up, turning you around, shaking you till they see how much money falls out, and then thanking you for your donation.

In general, I feel we need to avoid the wheres-the-catch stigma that people get the moment they see a non-standard page in a wizard. Images tend to make me think in terms of extra toolbars. 'Donationware' as misrepresentation of a free tool. Big documents of text imply a secondary EULA or whatever. Does all that even make sense? (I'm tired.)

Perhaps it is best to have several varieties worked out through means of compiler switches or whatnot? Some varieties I had in mind are: 1) introducing 'the concept of donating for software' alone, 2) specifically focus on DonationCoder, 3) some other mix of choice.

JavaJones · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2011, 07:37 PM »

I definitely know what worstje is talking about in reference to the "donationware" label. It's a tricky thing. What matters is people's perception. We'd like *intention* to matter more but ultimately it's all in the eye of the beholder. If they don't understand that the label "donationware" to DC means "donate if you find it useful and can afford to", but rather think it means "you must donate some amount to use this", it will put people off, even if it's more than worth the price of a small donation.

I also like the idea of having different versions of this and letting authors decide how they want to handle it. I can think of at least 2, exemplified by the difference between worstje's approach and some others in the thread: one that focuses on donating to the author, one that focuses on donating to/joining DC in general. I *do* think DC is worth promoting, and like the current fundraiser I don't think we should be apologetic about spreading the word about the site and its resources. It doesn't have to be a plea of any kind, more like a promotional page, but a cool and fun one. It's a chance to show people (perhaps again) what DC really has to offer, besides what the user may have "in their hands" so to speak.

- Oshyan

Renegade · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2011, 07:52 PM »

I've thrown something together, except for the text that I got from the Lorem ipsum generator Renegade did a recent micro-mini-review of:
-Ath (March 12, 2011, 12:54 PM)

That was actually cranioscopical. I can't take credit for that.

But the idea reminds me of this thread.

My guess is that a lot of applications do not end up in the hands of the end-user through DonationCoder. Thus, a simple page with extra information in an installer would be a nice sort of publicity campaign. An explicit This page is informational only, and no extra 'bundled' software will be installed. message might be useful to add at the bottom, just in case people go into ADSPYCRAPWARE mode the moment they see something that does not involve the name of the application itself.
-worstje (March 10, 2011, 03:25 PM)

That will happen. At a minimum, it will get labeled as "ADWARE" by some people. It doesn't matter how innocent it is. But, you can't please everyone.

For the copy, I'd say keep it short and to the point. That's harder to write and more time consuming, but it's also more effective.

worstje · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2011, 07:56 PM »

That will happen. At a minimum, it will get labeled as "ADWARE" by some people. It doesn't matter how innocent it is. But, you can't please everyone.
-Renegade (March 12, 2011, 07:52 PM)

By that logic, all installers are Adware. They tend to have visible text things saying 'made with NSIS' or 'made with WISE', etc. And usually on every single screen, or on the final page. But yeah, whiners complain. It's a law of nature at this point I think.

Renegade · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2011, 08:19 PM »

That will happen. At a minimum, it will get labeled as "ADWARE" by some people. It doesn't matter how innocent it is. But, you can't please everyone.
-Renegade (March 12, 2011, 07:52 PM)

By that logic, all installers are Adware. They tend to have visible text things saying 'made with NSIS' or 'made with WISE', etc. And usually on every single screen, or on the final page. But yeah, whiners complain. It's a law of nature at this point I think.
-worstje (March 12, 2011, 07:56 PM)

Yeah. That's a pretty extreme end of the spectrum, but... Sigh...

It's actually a pet peeve of mine in commercial software (and other products). I don't want to advertise for another company, especially after I pay for a product. This happens a lot in web templates and components for web sites. People use flat out black hat techniques for SEO in things that you PAY for. But that's a far cry from "NSIS" in an installer.

Same goes for shirts. Why would I want an embroidered horse on my shirt that's large enough for me to ride on? Seems a tad nutty to me.

But agreed -- there will always be someone ready to whine no matter what.

Ath · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2011, 05:37 AM »

I've thrown something together, except for the text that I got from the Lorem ipsum generator Renegade did a recent micro-mini-review of:
-Ath (March 12, 2011, 12:54 PM)

That was actually cranioscopical. I can't take credit for that.
-Renegade (March 12, 2011, 07:52 PM)

Oops

my bad, I typed that up from memory, so that's where it went wrong

I'll fix that (both the memory and the text).

Ath · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2011, 05:41 AM »

If you would like to spif up the installer with a skin I've used this free tool for Inno Setup in the past:
-MilesAhead (March 12, 2011, 05:47 PM)

That's not something I'll be adding, I really dislike any skins beyond the default Windows stuff, and IMHO are a big waste of energy when applied to an installer, that is only run once.

Renegade · « **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2011, 07:32 AM »

If you would like to spif up the installer with a skin I've used this free tool for Inno Setup in the past:
-MilesAhead (March 12, 2011, 05:47 PM)

That's not something I'll be adding, I really dislike any skins beyond the default Windows stuff, and IMHO are a big waste of energy when applied to an installer, that is only run once.
-Ath (March 13, 2011, 05:41 AM)

Installers are the first exposure to the application, so getting it right is important.

I remember seeing a Paradox installer a very long time ago, and it was one of the coolest I've ever seen. It had music and a wicked cool UI.

But yeah, they're rarely worth bothering with. The higher the number of downloads you have, the more important it is though. But that goes for everything.

For the CodeJock stuff there, I'd checked that out a while back, but didn't really like it much. You really need to do your own design from top to bottom to get it done nicely. The ones they have are decent examples, but just not really up my alley.

I actually really like the Visual Studio installer projects. You can get one done in record time.

Ath · « **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2011, 08:09 AM »

Hm, evaluating all (mixed) responses to this idea, I'm convinced that it should not be me, writing the promotional texts. The idea of having a choice of content is probably the best, categorizing between 'Just a mild hint that it's possible to donate through DC' and a 'Strong, almost begging, type of promotional marketing mumbojumbo', including an even bold link to the 'Donate to me please' page. And then some categories in between. A total of 5 choices (grades) should be enough then.
That should be a good compromise for everyone.

Because of the flexibility of the Inno Setup scripting language and the Pascal Script engine, that is all quite easy

Oh, and did I mention all labels and text are user override-able? And next to that, it comes with source (has to be included in your script), and the texts in a .rtf file (so colors, bold, hyperlinks, etc. are possible), so you are still in full control.

Then for grade 1 the title above the text could be more Author-oriented, like: (Also changed the 'Userpage' to 'info page')

IDEA: A Custom Page for Inno Setup showing DoCo info and donation benefits

Ath · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2011, 12:54 PM »

Well, pending this discussion, I'm inclined to postpone the release of this add-on/plug-in thingy for a bit.

Comments welcome, as always.

mouser · « **Reply #18 on:** March 13, 2011, 01:05 PM »

I think it would be useful to get it into a draft state with sample text and share it, and then maybe others can make some variations.

kyrathaba · « **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2011, 09:59 PM »

I'd really like to see this move forward, as I'd like to make use of it in my own Inno Setups.

I don't know if anyone ever provided a transparent image of Codie (Cody?), so here's one attached (size 64x64).

Here's a screenshot of where I tested it for transparency in a WinForms app:

steeladept · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2011, 01:18 AM »

How about something like this for the text:

Code: Text [Select]

<App Name> by <Author(s)>
A DonationCoder project
 
This application is a project provided by one of the fine authors at
www.donationcoder.com.  You can find this and many more awesome
projects available for free.  If you want to thank the author(s) for
their time and efforts you may do so by joining DonationCoder and
offering them a donation through the innovative micropayment system.

Obviously this can be tweaked in any way anyone sees fit, but it seems to strike a fair balance in my opinion of promoting both DC and the individual author(s)

kyrathaba · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2011, 07:35 AM »

@steeladept: I like what you've written!

I noticed a small area of non-transparency between Cody's legs (don't we all have that problem?) in the above screen-shot, so I've updated the image, and attached it.

versus the older version test shown below:

steeladept · « **Reply #22 on:** July 12, 2011, 09:33 PM »

Thanks. A little late for the party, but it is still good to use if they go through with the idea....

kyrathaba · « **Reply #23 on:** July 12, 2011, 09:51 PM »

Yeah, I couldn't see where anyone had provided such an image with transparency (maybe by PM, who knows?), but it only took a minute to knock up.

Ath · « **Reply #24 on:** July 13, 2011, 01:47 AM »

That image just looks so much nicer

compared to what I had so far, I'll add it to the project asap.