Author Topic: Win7: Anyone else getting excited? (Read 53057 times)

Dormouse · « **Reply #50 on:** October 10, 2009, 01:30 PM »

I've made no secret of the fact that Vista, both 32 and 64 bit versions, has been a very stable OS for me. As f0dder notes, it really doesn't deserve the negativity that has surrounded it since its release.
-Darwin (September 13, 2009, 02:18 PM)

I still haven't found anything broken but am enjoying a number of features and programs that the installer fixed but that were broken under Vista (I realize now that I should have tried repairing my Vista installation to correct these issues. Live and learn)
-Darwin (October 10, 2009, 10:45 AM)

Innuendo · « **Reply #51 on:** October 10, 2009, 05:32 PM »

I realize now that I should have tried repairing my Vista installation to correct these issues. Live and learn)
-Darwin (October 10, 2009, 10:45 AM)

Why repair today what Microsoft can repair for you tomorrow?

MilesAhead · « **Reply #52 on:** October 10, 2009, 05:56 PM »

I'm not into building systems so I generally get an HP since it's pretty good price/performance for what you can get at BestBuy(and I can return it in a few minutes if it's a lemon.)

I've been getting a lot of clearance sale flotsam from HP. It will be interesting to see what the new configurations with 7 pre-installed will be like.

Anyone have any inside scoop how many years we have to wait for USB 3.0? Also disappointing is none of the otherwise pretty good deals seem to have Esata. I hate opening boxes just to stick some card in that should already be there.

Innuendo · « **Reply #53 on:** October 10, 2009, 09:17 PM »

I'm not into building systems so I generally get an HP since it's pretty good price/performance for what you can get at BestBuy(and I can return it in a few minutes if it's a lemon.)
-MilesAhead (October 10, 2009, 05:56 PM)

Most people's needs are served perfectly fine by Dells, HPs, Acers, etc. Custom-built PCs anymore are only for people who have specific needs (like gamers) or people who want the satisfaction of choosing every component and putting it all together themselves. For the rest of the world, just getting something from Dell or HP can save a ton of money.

Also disappointing is none of the otherwise pretty good deals seem to have Esata. I hate opening boxes just to stick some card in that should already be there.

Esata has been disappointing all around. It just hasn't been taking off in popularity. Not a lot of motherboards come with that functionality.

MilesAhead · « **Reply #54 on:** October 10, 2009, 10:12 PM »

To me the really bizarre thing is HP putting a bay in the tower case so you can slide a USB 2.0 drive in. I mean, the thing has to connect to the motherboard somehow anyway and the internal drives are Sata. So why not just have a snap in with a Sata connection? Makes no sense at all. They could have had a coup with a built-in docking station that people would actually use. Just slide an internal Sata drive in the bay!!

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #55 on:** October 11, 2009, 04:24 AM »

To me the really bizarre thing is HP putting a bay in the tower case so you can slide a USB 2.0 drive in. I mean, the thing has to connect to the motherboard somehow anyway and the internal drives are Sata. So why not just have a snap in with a Sata connection? Makes no sense at all. They could have had a coup with a built-in docking station that people would actually use. Just slide an internal Sata drive in the bay!!
-MilesAhead (October 10, 2009, 10:12 PM)

It does make some sense because many HP models are supplied with a USB drive in a caddy and if your doesn't you can buy a drive (at an extortionate price). The stated intention is so that you can use it as a portable drive to carry data with you on the move. Whilst an eSATA dock would be very nice the majority of people would find a portable USB drive far more useful as every computer can use USB drives whereas relatively few computers have eSATA interfaces - and those that do (like one of my desktops) aren't brilliant at hot swapping drives.

Innuendo · « **Reply #56 on:** October 11, 2009, 10:37 AM »

Whilst an eSATA dock would be very nice the majority of people would find a portable USB drive far more useful as every computer can use USB drives whereas relatively few computers have eSATA interfaces - and those that do (like one of my desktops) aren't brilliant at hot swapping drives.
-Carol Haynes (October 11, 2009, 04:24 AM)

No, they are not 'brilliant' by any stretch of the word. Your SATA drivers have to be aware of eSATA's hot-swap capability (a lot of driver versions aren't), your SATA controllers must be in AHCI mode (which most computers and motherboards ship with that setting disabled), if you run Windows your OS must have been installed with the option turned on or be prepared for much registry hijinx, and finally not all versions of available operating systems out there support it.

Contrast that with the USB way of just plug and go no matter how your hardware & software is set up and you'll see why most vendors stick with USB interfaces.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #57 on:** October 11, 2009, 11:35 AM »

Isn't that pretty much what I said?

MilesAhead · « **Reply #58 on:** October 11, 2009, 01:37 PM »

You have USB ports. You can plug anything in. The bay thing is just a gimmick to sell you a USB drive that will fit in the hole. Jeez PS/2 machines you could hold down a spring loaded tab and pull the drives out with no tools!! Like it's rocket science! All that's needed is some mechanical engineering.

Looks like HP has gone to a tech job security program. Like the hindrances are designed to discourage the owner of the box from opening it.

Innuendo · « **Reply #59 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:23 AM »

Isn't that pretty much what I said?
-Carol Haynes (October 11, 2009, 11:35 AM)

With all due respect, Carol, but no, it isn't.

You described the situation as things stand now. I just merely expounded upon your words and gave the reason why the situation is the way it is.

Sorry if I gave the impression of stepping on your toes. That wasn't my intent. I'm asked all the time about eSATA ports and why they don't work the way they were designed to work and I thought I'd explain that reason here in case anyone was curious.

Innuendo · « **Reply #60 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:27 AM »

Looks like HP has gone to a tech job security program. Like the hindrances are designed to discourage the owner of the box from opening it.
-MilesAhead (October 11, 2009, 01:37 PM)

Like most computer tech companies HP is always actively exploring ways to design their products so that any add-ons a person buys for their HP PC they have to buy it from them. Companies have been doing it since the beginning with their laptops and to a large extent the inside components of their desktop PCs (like proprietary PSUs and motherboards). I'm surprised it's taken so long to implement this design philosophy in regards to external addons for desktop PCs as well.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #61 on:** October 12, 2009, 05:06 PM »

Actually HP would make a great poster child for why that sort of behavior is a bad idea. They cronically garbage up their computers with every multi-media widget and budding tecno gadget known to mankind regardless of wheather or not it actually works.

As an example a machine that some nice folks brought to us from two counties over was an HP with Vista x64 and two FireWire 800 ports. Seems the sales drone at BestBuy upsold them the "best" machine they had... *Sigh* ...Which was about 3 times the ($$$) machine they actually needed, which still didn't work. Why? Because Vista x64 & FireWire 800 is a disfunctional, crash prone match made in hell.

Strangely after an hour of searching I could not find a Dell/Vista machine that featured FireWire 800 ports.

On a brighter note if someone wants to try the Vista/FireWire 800 combo an expects it to work the ubCore drivers do work perfectly. As HP still does not have a proper driver for this.

I've wasted more time fighting with HP comps because of their insistance on loading them to the gills with every baubble, bangle, widget & thing-a-ma-jig that I cringe every time I see one.

MilesAhead · « **Reply #62 on:** October 12, 2009, 06:33 PM »

It's a shame things can't be kept simple. I like HP machines just for the fact that after buying 6 I think I had one that was bad OOTB. The others have all been plug and play, working until obsolete.

I am amazed at times at the power of the written word though. I had one customer when I was doing auto repair, that got a "winterize" special done. We flushed the radiator, yadda yadda.. then when it came time to put the anti-freeze mix in, he would not allow us to put it in the radiator because it was a Chrysler motors product, and on the radiator it said "use only Mopar anti-freeze." That's like saying "use only snowballs made with General Motors water." I'm serious. The guy actually went down to a parts store and came back with a couple of gallons of Mopar anti-freeze and made us put that in!!!

I wish I had an option on some swamp land for that dude!!!

zridling · « **Reply #63 on:** October 12, 2009, 07:58 PM »

My neighbor, who is also a Linux user, invited me to a house party on the 23rd where he'd give me his [host] copy of Win7. I refused the Win7 offer but will attend the party (give it to someone who will use it and enjoy it). The reason I'm going is because he intends to setup a room of similar computers and simultaneously install everything:

— XP-SP3
— Vista
— Win7
— openSUSE Linux
— Linux Mint
— OSX

I'm sure that will break Microsoft's party rules, but it should be interesting if it is able to get anyone to switch from their current OS!

MilesAhead · « **Reply #64 on:** October 12, 2009, 11:16 PM »

Heh heh. For a second there I thought you were going to say he'd then blindfold the guests, spin them around, and see if they can sit down and run programs without knowing which OS they are on.

jgpaiva · « **Reply #65 on:** October 13, 2009, 05:15 AM »

The reason I'm going is because he intends to setup a room of similar computers and simultaneously install everything:

— XP-SP3
— Vista
— Win7
— openSUSE Linux
— Linux Mint
— OSX
-zridling (October 12, 2009, 07:58 PM)

Hmm.. Wouldn't it be a bit unfair to install OSX on a regular pc and not a mac? (I know about macs being x86, I mean a computer without the keyboard shortcuts, camera, gigantic screen, etc)

f0dder · « **Reply #66 on:** October 13, 2009, 05:16 AM »

-jgpaiva (October 13, 2009, 05:15 AM)

Hmm.. Wouldn't it be a bit unfair to install OSX on a regular pc and not a mac? (I know about macs being x86, I mean a computer without the keyboard shortcuts, camera, gigantic screen, etc)
[/quote]You do have the keyboard shortcuts on a regular keyboard, as long as it has the Windows keys

jgpaiva · « **Reply #67 on:** October 13, 2009, 05:21 AM »

Hmm.. Wouldn't it be a bit unfair to install OSX on a regular pc and not a mac? (I know about macs being x86, I mean a computer without the keyboard shortcuts, camera, gigantic screen, etc)
-jgpaiva (October 13, 2009, 05:15 AM)
You do have the keyboard shortcuts on a regular keyboard, as long as it has the Windows keys
-f0dder (October 13, 2009, 05:16 AM)

AFAIK, mac uses other keyboard shortcuts (for expose and such), not present in regular keyboards. Also, I'm not sure if it'd make any sense to use a regular keyboard with a mac, since you'd always be thinking "where do those symbols on the screen link?" (regarding alt, ctrl and apple buttons).

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #68 on:** October 13, 2009, 05:59 AM »

It's a shame things can't be kept simple. I like HP machines just for the fact that after buying 6 I think I had one that was bad OOTB. The others have all been plug and play, working until obsolete.
-MilesAhead (October 12, 2009, 06:33 PM)

True, simple is best in the long run. ...And yes my view is a bit dimmed by seeing mostly (end user) client machines.

I am amazed at times at the power of the written word though. I had one customer when I was doing auto repair, that got a "winterize" special done. We flushed the radiator, yadda yadda.. then when it came time to put the anti-freeze mix in, he would not allow us to put it in the radiator because it was a Chrysler motors product, and on the radiator it said "use only Mopar anti-freeze." That's like saying "use only snowballs made with General Motors water." I'm serious. The guy actually went down to a parts store and came back with a couple of gallons of Mopar anti-freeze and made us put that in!!!

I wish I had an option on some swamp land for that dude!!!

Mechanic Huh? I spent many years as a mechanic in motorcycle shops, If it wasn't for the arthritis I'd probably still be doing that. I still do all my own work (and some specialty work for others) but I pay for it at the end of the (and next) day. I believe I actually liked engines better than computers; engines are visceral, tactile, & soulful... while computers are sterile & in-tangent.

MilesAhead · « **Reply #69 on:** October 13, 2009, 05:31 PM »

I believe I actually liked engines better than computers; engines are visceral, tactile, & soulful... while computers are sterile & in-tangent.
-Stoic Joker (October 13, 2009, 05:59 AM)

Yeah, there was something about diagnosing a problem, like if a car is running rough, by just leaning over the running engine, closing your eyes, and listening. The oscilloscopes and all that are fine. But if you have experience chances are you know the answer in your subconscious. You just have to relax and let it out. Plus it's more fun than running 128 tests in a series that you can't do if the engine doesn't run.

f0dder · « **Reply #70 on:** October 14, 2009, 04:59 AM »

Hmm.. Wouldn't it be a bit unfair to install OSX on a regular pc and not a mac? (I know about macs being x86, I mean a computer without the keyboard shortcuts, camera, gigantic screen, etc)
-jgpaiva (October 13, 2009, 05:15 AM)
You do have the keyboard shortcuts on a regular keyboard, as long as it has the Windows keys
-f0dder (October 13, 2009, 05:16 AM)
AFAIK, mac uses other keyboard shortcuts (for expose and such), not present in regular keyboards. Also, I'm not sure if it'd make any sense to use a regular keyboard with a mac, since you'd always be thinking "where do those symbols on the screen link?" (regarding alt, ctrl and apple buttons).
-jgpaiva (October 13, 2009, 05:21 AM)

Afaik the scancode for "that fancy mac button" is the same as the Win-button.

Nudel · « **Reply #71 on:** October 14, 2009, 04:00 PM »

Is that still the case? I did a search for any recent reports of UAC issues and couldn't find any. The results that were returned by Google all related to either the beta or RC with MS promising to address those issues for RTM
-Eóin (September 29, 2009, 08:44 PM)

My proof of concept UAC-bypass app still works in the Windows 7 RTM if you're using the default settings.

Whether or not it's a big deal is a matter of debate. Personally, I don't care if the UAC prompts are on or off by default; I just want something that is fair to all apps and whose design and implementation actually makes sense, rather than the current worst-of-both-worlds solution which seems to be driven more by appearances than anything else.

Aside from that, and a few minor bugs I've run into on the API side, I quite like Windows 7. It's definitely an improvement and not something anyone should avoid (e.g. if getting a new PC or if they have to reinstall anyway). Once again, Media Center has the biggest set of improvements and, like Vista was to XP, it's a must-have upgrade for people who use that. For everyone else, it's nice and there are some cool tweaks that, IMO, don't justify the upgrade by themselves but that you'll miss if you switch and then have to switch back for some reason. I can still happily use Vista, though, or even XP (although XP feels pretty clunky in a few areas now).

Eóin · « **Reply #72 on:** October 15, 2009, 03:34 AM »

Thanks Nudel, that very much answers my question

40hz · « **Reply #73 on:** October 17, 2009, 01:24 PM »

Anyone have any inside scoop how many years we have to wait for USB 3.0? Also disappointing is none of the otherwise pretty good deals seem to have Esata. I hate opening boxes just to stick some card in that should already be there.

-MilesAhead (October 10, 2009, 05:56 PM)

According to the folks over at Endgadget, Buffalo is shipping at the end of October 2009.

Est. $60 for the 2-port controller card/$225 1TB drive.

http://www.engadget....k-drives-this-month/

"Pretty gorram shiny by me!" - Jayne Cobb

40hz · « **Reply #74 on:** October 17, 2009, 01:49 PM »

OK. I've been running 32-bit W7 almost exclusively for about a week now...

No problems whatsoever. The only anomaly came when I tried to install Silverlight via IE 8.0. First three tries and IE went out into limbo. One reboot and one more try did the trick however. Works just fine now.

I'm currently only running: Office 2k7, LiveMail, LiveWriter, Firefox, Radik Burner Lite, AVG Free, and Maricum Reflect since I'm still feeling my way into it. To my amazement, there have been no bad surprises, other than IE 8 having occasional issues with font sizes on certain (e.g. HP Driver Downloads) websites.

I can't run Aero eye candy on this machine since it's on-board video isn't up to the requirements (perf score was only 2.0 for video!), but that's no great loss AFAIC. I don't really care for the Aero effects and planned on disabling them anyway.

The only minor qualm I had was having to install a Vista-labeled driver (per Microsoft) for one of my 1Gb NICs. Fortunately, it went in smoothly and works flawlessly. Now, this card works even better than it does under XP, so I probably shouldn't complain.

So far - so good. The system seems to be quite light on it's feet. Even seems even slightly faster that XP in some areas, although that may likely be because I have far less stuff running in the background than I do on my XP setup.

I'm pretty happy so far. (Fingers crossed.

)