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Recent Posts

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8326
@Paul -- Good points.

And yes -- I think I blurred a few people's posts. Maybe I was drinking...  :o

40hz speaks more from morality. mouser's comment about a key speaks more towards the ideal effects of virtue. I write more from a perspective of necessity regardless of morality. Your comments speaks more towards the right to do something including the right to NOT do something.

Nothing like a good red herring to get the conversation moving~! :D


Back to success...

Which is even blurrier because we all haven't agreed what success is.


I think that there are different aspects to success, and we need to figure out what those are. We seem to have been talking about a few different things.


A token list of possible measures of success:

* Financial
* Reputation
* User base
* Community
* Self-satisfaction

I'm sure that could be added to or refined.

Perhaps it would be best to define those as priorities. e.g. I might rank Financial and Self-satisfaction as the top 2, while someone else might rank Community as the top.
8327
Living Room / [FOR FUN] Stupid Questions
« Last post by Renegade on February 15, 2011, 07:38 AM »
I thought it might be fun to have a thread for people to post stupid questions/statements. (Try to limit to a max of 2 sentences.) I'll start:


I've been thinking about getting an iPad for an ebook reader because it can hold thousands of books. How heavy would that be?
8328
Living Room / Odd Google Behavior
« Last post by Renegade on February 15, 2011, 06:37 AM »
Well, I've been trying to find things that I've found in Google before. Results were more relevant a few months ago than I'm finding now, and I can't find what I wanted.

Is this something that anyone else has noticed? Maybe it's just an isolated thing... Not sure.
8329
BTW, there is also an alternative way to receive donation - it happened to me at least twice:
someone with authority recommends a tool to a computer newbie -> they download it -> they try to use it and fail -> the GUI only has 3 buttons and one of them is 'Donate' -> out of desperation they donate -> they write an email to the author stating the software still doesn't work although they donated -> author explains they should really read what is written in the help

Hahahahaha~! I love it~! That's hilarious! :D  :Thmbsup:

8330
Living Room / An Optical Illusion
« Last post by Renegade on February 15, 2011, 04:43 AM »
I was working on a kind of tiling problem, I wanted to visually compare some sizes, and mocked up 4 bars in Photoshop:

Screenshot - 2011-02-15 , 9_39_18 PM.png

In the top corner you can see 4 vertical bars, and 4 bars behind them.

Anyways, just a stupid little thing that I though might amuse someone.
8331
Living Room / Re: New Chrome extension blocks sites from Google results
« Last post by Renegade on February 15, 2011, 01:34 AM »
VERY interesting... I wonder how long it will take the black hats to abuse it...
8332
Was someone asking about skinning the Internet again?  :huh:
8333
Very interesting, Dave.
8334
It still seems that the underlying principle in your approach is to be suspicious.

That is not at all what I'm saying. Suspicion has no place anywhere in this schema.


I seem to have misread what you were trying to say then.


Being "open" as a requirement is very much a burdened concept.

Why would it be a requirement?

It's not a requirement at all. It's a suggested stance or process. Think in terms of it being an outlook or perspective rather than a rule. As such, it's liberating. It basically says "I have nothing to be afraid of because, come what may, I know I can deal with it."


Transparency is certainly a good thing. I just don't see a lot of authors (with good software even) coming out and spilling all their motivations. Most people don't care.

e.g.

http://www.7-zip.org/faq.html

There's not even the slightest attempt by the author to be open about anything, but I can't see that being a black mark against him. He's already done enough by giving his software out for free.

That's the kind of thing I mean.


Talking about the first there is simply futile, as bad people will be bad, and there's nothing to be done about it.


Disagree.

There's actually quite a bit you can do about bad behavior. You can:


I was trying to limit the scope there and not get into all that as it's an entirely HUGE can of worms. :)



8335
Again... people are posting too fast for me... :D

****
Why would it be a requirement? I can only see suspicion as the motivation.

No offense (and sorry for butting in) but perhaps that stems from your own suspicion motivating you to be less transparent?


I think you're missing the point there.

My reasoning starts from a "blank slate" and assumes that there needs to be some motivation to take action. In this case, the action is opening things up.

If you're not doing anything bad, why would this ever occur to you other than as I stated, purely for interest sake. I was explicit about that:

Now I can see someone being open simply as a matter of fact/interest, but that's a very different thing

I have NEVER opened anything up for any other reason. (See below.)

And I absolutely do not have any motivation to be less transparent. Go ahead and download all my software, scan it, and see that there is nothing malicious there.

I do have 1 piece of software that is potentially open to some abuse, and I have gone to great lengths to stop that:

http://renegademinds...abid/92/Default.aspx

No abuse

By downloading and using Email Avenger, you become responsible for what you use it for. It is meant as an EMERGENCY EMAIL UTILITY to help when you cannot use your email account.

You can enter any email address you like, so Email Avenger is a little open to abuse... So... to limit that, there is a footer at the bottom that links to Renegade Minds here and the number of emails you can send at 1 time is limited to 10 emails.

If you have received email threats from someone or outright inappropriate emails from someone using Email Avenger, there is nothing we can do. BUT, you can send the original email that includes all the email headers to your local police, ISP, or system administrator. They can take action against the culprit. Do not contact us about abuse. We cannot be responsible.

Tasteful pranks

Of course we all love jokes and harmless pranks... Please be responsible if you are sending emails with someone else's address. Also know that this may be illegal where you live and you may be open to prosecution if you do so. We are not responsible. Use common sense and keep things clean.

That was written quite a few years ago when webmail outages were relatively common.


With respect to my own transparency, you should read here:

http://renegademinds...abid/61/Default.aspx

It's horribly out of date, but I believe that it should address any concerns about suspicions or nefarious activity on my part. The last paragraph there reads:

My goal here at Renegade Minds is to provide as many people as possible with as much value as I can. For some that's going to be a simple tutorial or a snippit of code. For others it's going to be software to improve their guitar or piano playing. Either way, I hope you enjoy Renegade Minds and take advantage of some of the things I've made available here.


I didn't write any of that page thinking that I was under some scrutiny. It was simply an innocent attempt to deliver some information. That's a very different beast than trying to be transparent due to the shadow of suspicion being cast.




In that case then being less open would still be motivated by suspicion.


I didn't address anything about attempts to concel information. Again, that's an entirely different aspect. I was only trying to address the affirmative case of publishing information that is open and the negative case of inaction (potentially due to ignorance).



And according to you it's a burdened concept to be motivated by suspicion. So in the end, both spectrums, are burdened concept.


You're confusing the fourth case that you introduced into the previous cases.

0) Inaction  (You're attaching the fourth case here)
1) Openness out of interest
2) Openness to dispel suspicion
3) Concealing information (i.e. The 4th case you introduced)


Attempting to hide things isn't something that is particularly interesting. i.e.:

Talking about the first (malicious authors) there is simply futile, as bad people will be bad, and there's nothing to be done about it.




Ok... Let's put this in another light...


Why look a gift horse in the mouth?


If someone is giving you something for free, it's pretty rude to demand that they tell you why they're doing it, what their motivations are, and that they have to "confess".

Flat out, it's just rude.

Why not just be gracious and say thank you?

I supposed that's my position in a super simple nutshell.



It's not uncommon to see freeware or open source projects die because the users continully bitch and complain and make unreasonable demands on the author(s).

Take NDOC for example. It was a fantastic piece of software, but...

http://weblogs.asp.n....0-_2D00_-R.I.P.aspx

I have decided to discontinue work on NDoc 2.0 and no longer participate in any open-source development work.


The development and release of NDoc 1.3 was a huge amount of work, and by all accounts widely appreciated. Unfortunately, despite the almost ubiquitous use of NDoc, there has been no support for the project from the .Net developer community either financially or by development contributions. Since 1.3 was released, there have been the grand total of eleven donations to the project. In fact, were it not for Oleg Tkachenko’s kind donation of a MS MVP MSDN subscription, I would not even have a copy of VS2005 to work with!


To put this into perspective, if only roughly 1-in-10 of the those who downloaded NDoc had donated the minimum allowable amount of $5 then I could have worked on NDoc 2.0 full-time and it could have been released months ago!  Now, I am not suggesting that this should have occurred, or that anyone owes me anything for the work I have done, rather I am trying to demonstrate that if the community values open-source projects then it should do *something* to support them. MS has for years acknowledged community contributions via the MVP program but there is absolutely no support for community projects.


Once ‘Sandcastle’ is released, it is my belief that it will become the de-facto standard and that NDoc will slowly become a stagnant side-water. This will happen regardless of technical considerations, even if Sandcastle were to be less feature-complete. It's just an inevitable result of MS's 'not-invented-here' mentality, one only has to look at Nant and NUnit to see the effects of MS 'competition'. 


This is not, however,  my only reason for stopping development work - I have a big enough ego to think I could still produce a better product than them :-)


As some of you are aware, there are some in the community who believe that a .Net 2.0 compatible release was theirs by-right and that I should be moving faster – despite the fact that I am but one man working in his spare time...


This came to head in the last week; I have been subjected to an automated mail-bomb attack on both my public mail addresses and the ndoc2 mailing list address. These mails have been extremely offensive and resulted in my ISP temporarily suspending my account because of the traffic volume. This incident has been reported to the local authorities, although I am highly doubtful they will be able to do anything about it.


This has was the ‘last-straw’ and has convinced me that I should withdraw from the community; I’m not prepared to have myself and my family threatened by some lunatic!


I've seen the same thing repeated elsewhere.



As a tool to sway suspicion, being open has 2 primary cases:

* The author is malicious and needs to convince visitors
* The author lives in a world where much is malicious, and needs to cut through the suspicion caused by malicious authors

3rd primary case. People just want to know what they are getting. They want to know if they can become a fan of your product and you wouldn't screw them. They want to know if the developer is willing to disclose say... bugs that may turn people away from their product.

In turn, the more transparent a developer is, the more he gets in touch with the dilemma his users are having with his program be it bugs, confusing interface, self-bias resulting to poorer design. All which in turn leads to a developer being more incentivized to create a product that he is proud to share and show to his users which in turn leads to more transparency as then the developer would be more proud to showcase his hard work. Generically speaking of course.


I want to be clear -- I never said "don't be transparent". Transparency is a very good thing. What I said, in a nutshell, is demanding transparency when given a gift is unreasonable.



***

Back in a bit...






8336
In the end, it all comes down to the intent that guides the behavior.


It still seems that the underlying principle in your approach is to be suspicious.

Being "open" as a requirement is very much a burdened concept.

Why would it be a requirement? I can only see suspicion as the motivation.

Where there is no malicious intent, there's no reason to believe in the first place that revealing intent should be a requirement.

I mean that for someone that has no malicious intent, why would they ever even think that blurting out all their motivations is something that they should do or that anyone would care about?

There has to be some kind of motivation/reason to be open.

Now I can see someone being open simply as a matter of fact/interest, but that's a very different thing from what you're suggesting.

Is being open simply a trivial fact or point of interest, or is it a tool to sway suspicion? The former isn't very interesting, but the latter is.

As a tool to sway suspicion, being open has 2 primary cases:

* The author is malicious and needs to convince visitors
* The author lives in a world where much is malicious, and needs to cut through the suspicion caused by malicious authors

Talking about the first there is simply futile, as bad people will be bad, and there's nothing to be done about it.

The second case is interesting though. From what you've said so far, it sounds like you're saying freeware authors should or must adopt that position.

To me it seems like a very pessimistic position.


Draw what conclusions from those two pictures you will.  :) :Thmbsup:

If you write freeware, you'd better arm yourself? :P


But seriously, the conclusions I'm drawing from those are that we have radically different approaches that cannot be reconciled.


I should note that I am not opposed to being open. In fact I think it's a good thing. My concern is for the motivations behind it.
8337
[EDIT: I guess i also have a quibble with the second part of this: "If you want to get paid - say so. And require it. "
I believe strongly in the concept of encouraging voluntary payments for digital goods (e.g. Donationware).

I really want to believe strongly in the donation concept too. I think it's a marvellous idea that speaks to all that's best in people.   

I'm just curious about how well it works practice.

Because while it seems to be working very well here, I'm sure most of us would also qualify that by pointing out just how unique (or perhaps totally unique) DC is. If you don't believe it, just look at the results of the last fundraiser. I've never known any fund drive that got double their target before I saw it happen here.

But websites are websites and software is software. So I'm also curious how donations made to a website compare to donations made to software authors. Without meaning to pry (so no specifics please) is there anybody, whose portfolio of software is earning a them even a modest wage purely from donations? By wage I mean it would be equivalent to what you might earn from an unskilled part-time job.

Please somebody say "yes."

You have no idea how much I want to believe this concept can work. :)

Wikipedia.

Wikileaks.

Ummm... Running out here...

Mozilla monetizes through search (and doesn't really make it very public).

There are some out there. I'm sure others can think of more.
8338
I still think they key is being honest with your users.

There are many ways to make and share and give away (or market and sell) software or services, and lots of different motivations, and lots of different paths that people can take.

If you are up front with your users/customers/friends about what you are doing and why, so that they don't feel tricked, then you are doing fine, whatever path you take.

This is what I'm finding very, very, very wrong.

It seems to me that the underlying assumption is that unless you "confess", you must be up to no good.

There's no reason at all to be up front about what you are doing and why. Very few people do that. It doesn't make them dishonest.

If you're not doing anything wrong, not tricking people, not installing malware, then there's nothing wrong with not revealing your motivations.

Why look a gift horse in the mouth?

That being said, there is a very big difference between honestly giving something away and tricking people into installing toolbars, spyware, etc. etc.

If you are installing a toolbar, then you need to be up front about that. Toolbars aren't really a part of the software, so there's no expectation to get a toolbar when installing ACME programs. THAT kind of stuff you need to be up front about.

But simply giving something away? Jeez. I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. :)

8339
Well, it will hopefully put a third player in the game. Symbian is dead. Has been for a while. We need better competition to get the mobile world moving. I for one will be very happy to see Nokia and MS get into the market. (My bias is entirely because I want to see better ways of doing things get better adoption/penetration. i.e. The CLI. C++ is ancient and needs to die.)
8340
+1

It's a broken system, but it won't change. There are very powerful vested interests that will make sure it stays broken.

There is no hope...
8341
I blame the lawyers though, for creating a world where they always are needed...

+1 - The lawyers always seem to win no matter what. The system is broken, but it's broken by design. If it worked properly, lawyers would be in soup-kitchen lineups.
8342
There's a difference between freeware and software that's being given away for free but with an agenda or motive behind it.

That's why it's important to insist on the distinction. Otherwise, the end-user feels they're being set-up; and the programmer feels resentful and unappreciated.

If you really want to give something away for free, then just give it away.

If you hope or expect to get something back in return, then be precise and upfront about it. And also stop calling your program 'freeware.'



I think you're splitting hairs a bit. I can't see some company not calling a free version of their software "freeware" simply because they don't say that they want you to buy the full/pro version.

If it doesn't cost anything and has no strings attached, I'd call it freeware. I'd even call it freeware with some strings attached. e.g. Signing up at a site, etc.

Is mouser's software not freeware because you have to get a free license? I wouldn't say so.


Quite often the "agenda" isn't anything more than simply wanting to be able to continue writing software and giving it away for free.




Except for software...

And music...

And movies...

And books...

And...pretty much anything that can be distributed electronically.

Hmmm...

Do we detect a pattern here? :huh:


I wouldn't say books (yet). But yeah... there's a pattern.


**********



It seems like there's a tone in this thread that if you try to write software and give it away for free but still make some money somewhere along the line, then you're doing something wrong or scummy.

I can't see anything wrong with trying to give software away for free and at the same time trying to make a living off of it.


Should we demand that all wait-staff in restaurants stop getting paid because the warm fuzzy feelings that they get from serving people should be enough? How about police? Firemen? Nurses? etc. etc. etc.





People keep posting too fast...


It's a simple matter of being honest.

Always the best policy with yourself and others.  :)


True. I may actually do that - I mean explaining why it is this particular piece of software "free" and how does it fit in the whole scheme. I always thought it was obvious, but obviously  ;), it was not.



I can't see why/how not telling people "why" software is free makes you dishonest.

There are some pretty sinister implications there. What are the underlying assumptions?


The site I'm working on goes at length to explain why the software is free, but on other sites, I never mention it at all. Does that make me dishonest?


Here's an example:

http://renegademinds...bid/122/Default.aspx

There's no mention at all about why I give it away for free. None.

Does that make it not freeware because I've not confessed my motives, which must be dishonest and sinister because I've not disclosed them all...

8343
I'm a bit pissed. I had a rough day.

I went into the grocery store and asked if I could get some groceries for free, and they said NO~!

Then I went to get my hair cut and asked about a freebie, and they said NO too~!

Well, not to be discouraged, I went to get my car fixed, and they quoted me a price that wasn't zero~!

Sigh... But I didn't give up.

I went to a restaurant and asked about free meals. Struck out there again... Things weren't looking good...

So by this time my car was getting low on gas. I drove into the gas station and checked to see what kind of free gas they had. They didn't have ANY free gas at all! NONE!

Jeez...

So on my way back home, I dropped in at JB HiFi to maybe pick up some new music or a DVD. And they didn't have anything for free either~!

Holy! Not 1 hit! Pure failure!

Well, being thoroughly depressed at this point, I figured I needed a massage to cheer me up. But when I asked for a freebie I got really strange looks, so I asked if I could try it out for 30 days and then if I liked it maybe then I could pay... Well, some big mountain of a guy threw me out on my face.

So I had to drop by the hospital, and I figured if somethings going to be free, this had to be. Nope. No luck. They wanted money too!

I'm getting discouraged... It seems like everybody expects to get paid for everything...









Except for software...











Just something to think about.


8344
General Software Discussion / Re: In need of security advice ...
« Last post by Renegade on February 14, 2011, 06:47 AM »
I've been buying up a bunch of artwork lately, and came across some protected images on what's actually an excellent site.

Well, I wanted to check to see how some edits would look on it before buying... 10 seconds later I had the image without a screenshot (from source). (I was surprised when I got it with no watermark.)

Anyways, just one of those things -- you can't really protect pics on the Internet.
8345
I found that about 1 in 3,000 downloads results in a donation in the past.

Donations really only amount to beer money, if that, for most freeware developers anyways.

I'm currently working on a site that's going to have freeware, but I'm still messing around with how to monetize it. It's tough to balance some things.

Things I'm considering/doing:

* Ads - I've always hated ads, but...
* Donations - No brainer. If people will donate, let them. :)
* Subscriptions - Still hashing out how to do this right.
* Paid versions - Why not sell licenses?
* In-app ads - Not sure about this...
* Custom branding - Again, not sure about it or if there's a demand even.
* Hire us - Why not use the site to get other business?
* Toolbars - Everyone else has a bundled toolbar. Why not? Need to get downloads up to a fairly large number first though.  
* Content sales - This is where there's a lot of money, but haven't figured out how to do it yet.  
* CPU sharing - Not sure. Need to check into this more.  

We'll see how things go. I'll clock it up as a success if it helps put food on the table and pay the bills. :P If it buys me a house, I'll clock it up as a super-success~! :D


8346
N.A.N.Y. 2011 / Re: NANY MUGs
« Last post by Renegade on February 13, 2011, 10:31 AM »
The mug reached me yesterday but I cannot show it to you atm - the problem is my wife: She said it must stay in the cellar until I get a second cup next year. We´re still using the last two we got for our daily coffee :D.

All comments about being whipped have been censored. As such, this post is empty. :)

8347
I think we should hold a planet-wide lottery -- everyone fills out a ballot writing in their choice of one written language and one spoken language.  then we pick one ticket out of a hat, and we all convert to that and ban the rest.


So, I take it that you're up for learning Mandarin or Urdu? :D
8348
Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: StartSSL.com Certificate Provider: Mini-Review
« Last post by Renegade on February 13, 2011, 09:12 AM »
Just a quick heads up: I don't know what this means but all of the new beta browsers (FF4, IE9, Chrome10) seem to not be setup to trust certificates from StartSSL, leading to dire end-of-world warnings when you try to access https on our site.

Needless to say im filled with some rage at this whole f*cking SSL clusterf*ck scam that is designed to scare you away from any site on the web that isn't owned by some giant corporation.  I will update as I learn more about what is going on.

Maybe it's something we have misconfigured..


The entire security industry is a bloody sham. SSL does one thing. And the browsers cow-tow to security BS. If a certificate provides proper SSL connectivity, it shouldn't be flagged like that. They're simply vampires. Pure and simple.

I doubt you have anything misconfigured. The only thing misconfigured is the security industry. Grrr...  >:(
8349
Oh where to start...

This is going to be a bit long, so feel free to skip to headings. My aim is to see *WHERE* people's interest in this discussion lies.

ABOUT ME

It helps to know who's speaking, so for the benefit of those that don't know me...

ABOUT ME
I do software for a living. I have freeware, commercial, and "use and abuse" software available. My flagship product is GDT. It helps put food on the table.

I've worked for different software companies both full time and on a consultancy basis.

I originally came to DC after finding a compression software review about ALZip -- a program from ESTsoft, a company that I used to work for.

ALZip is freeware for personal use (in Korea) and requires a license for non-personal use (education, government, companies).

All ALTools were freeware for personal use while I was there. Some of that has changed. (See www.altools.com for more information.)

I've done work for fortune 500 companies and lesser known companies as well.

I stopped counting the number of downloads that I'd driven in 2007 when I'd more than surpassed 100,000,000.



Hopefully that provides a bit of context.


METRICS

I think it's important to define "success" and it's important to place some kind of metrics on that.

Key metrics:

* Money
* Money
* Money
* Downloads
* Installed base
* Active user base
* Money
* Money
* Money

Ok. I emphasized money there, but that's because of the world we live in. Money == Success.

I write software because I love it. But I also need to put food on the table, fix the car, pay the rent, etc. etc. etc. All that takes money.



FORMS OF FREEWARE

Freeware takes several forms.

* Labour of love
* Demonstration of ability
* Business
* Boredom

Some people write freeware because they love something and want to do something. It's personal. Success is then mostly irrelevant.

Some people want to demonstrate their ability and perhaps get a consulting gig or better job or whatever. Success is then how it advances their career.

Some people are simply bored and write freeware as a hobby. Success is then self-defined.

And sometimes freeware is a business. This is where "success" is most interesting. This is the part that I'd like to comment on.



FREEWARE AS A BUSINESS

This is difficult.

Is this the point of interest?

8350
Living Room / Re: Micropayments now officially supported by PayPal
« Last post by Renegade on February 13, 2011, 03:46 AM »
YES~!

That's good to see. I think I need to redo some stuff now. :)
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