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8301

Living Room / Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!

« Last post by wraith808 on May 04, 2011, 08:26 AM »

A possibility just crossed my mind - what if they have him alive in a dungeon somewhere? Would make perfect sense from a counter-terrorism POV. No accusations of torture, easy to produce and verify DNA evidence and show the world it was indeed him, even easy to fake death images or video if you have the guy alive.

-nosh (May 03, 2011, 11:18 PM)

That was my thought also, truthfully.  Though the faked images/video could be outed- so I'd think that if they are required to provide them, they'll be real...

And another thought for conspiracy theorists... given that the terrorists are willing to sacrifice themselves for their cause, what if this was intentional?  Give up bin Laden, and the American will to fight this war vanishes.  (Of course, I'd think he'd want a more violent last stand, i.e. a true sacrifice to martyr himself, but that might have had the opposite effect...)

8302

Living Room / Re: should I ragequit?

« Last post by wraith808 on May 03, 2011, 02:05 PM »

Last week I saw an episode of 'Game of Thrones' and there one character spoke some wise words...The one who gives the death sentence should carry it out as well.

-Shades (May 03, 2011, 12:02 PM)

Definitely.  It's not just our media that de-emphasizes the value of human life and desensitizes the act of taking a life, but our weapons do also, along with our very language.  The more you can separate the act from the thought, the easier it is to do.

8303

Living Room / Re: Sony Playstation Network hacked - All your infos are belong to hackers.

« Last post by wraith808 on May 03, 2011, 10:02 AM »

There's been a second data breach. But DON'T PANIC!! (It only affects 25 million users.)

http://www.reuters.c...dUSN0224988320110503

-nosh (May 02, 2011, 11:29 PM)

It's not a second one.  It's a result of this...

http://massively.joy...ue-to-serious-issue/

Other SOE services are also offline.  It is not clear if they were hacked also, if this a precautionary measure, or if this for forensic purposes...

-wraith808 (May 02, 2011, 01:27 PM)

8304

Living Room / Re: should I ragequit?

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 07:11 PM »

I'd like to think we can passionately disagree without feeling the need to turn on each other in order to demonstrate the depth of our feelings and convictions about something.

Sometimes, the simple act of "agreeing to disagree" is the highest form of respect we can extend to each other.

-40hz (May 02, 2011, 06:38 PM)

I had to re-quote to include the other part.  Cool statement! 

8305

Living Room / Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 04:32 PM »

But the point of the matter is that it is avoidable, for the fact that there are operations where it doesn't happen.

-wraith808 (May 02, 2011, 10:47 AM)

I suppose "collateral damage" is often avoidable in what used to be called "surgical strike" operations (haven't heard of those in a while! Are they all out of fashion now?) when a small, specialized team is sent to perform a small, focused task, like apprehending or killing OBL.

It is never avoidable when you launch a full-scale war like in Iraq or Afghanistan, or even limited air strikes such as in Libya.

-tranglos (May 02, 2011, 04:09 PM)

Even in those cases, it is still avoidable.  It just takes a lot more work, and a lot more will.  And you need to limit scope of the operation to the absolute minimum needed for operational success.  It's just that our will to take those risks is very limited, especially because of the risks to servicemen when you start limiting rules of engagement based upon having zero civilian casualties, and the risks to operational success when you start limiting the scope of weaponry utilized.  Then you also have the human element of the soldier on the ground, and there's also the element of the unknown, and the willingness to scrub a mission when the unknown is put into play.

It's difficult to be sure, and can sometimes seem insurmountable in the face of obstacles.  But if you have the will and that is your primary objective, you can do it.

8306

Living Room / Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 03:23 PM »

Just because something can spiral, does not automatically dictate that it will/must spiral into the eternal abyss (or the dark side if you like... ). Because it is also "true", that only a fool has no fear.

-Stoic Joker (May 02, 2011, 03:12 PM)

I think that 'fear' in that case (and at least in the case of what I'm talking about) is irrational uncontrolled fear.  Fear as in a 'healthy respect for' is reasonable, and definitely helps in survival and decision making.  The other kind- not so much.

8307

Living Room / Re: should I ragequit?

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 03:06 PM »

As having a conscious is a good thing I'm told.

-Stoic Joker (May 02, 2011, 11:54 AM)

I think therefore I am? (Trying to lighten the mood...?)

8308

Living Room / Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 02:43 PM »

Through the words of a muppet comes the truth...

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

Does it really matter in what stage you find yourself?  That's a spiraling mode of thinking.  And all of it, IMO, comes from selfishness, but that's a different discussion.

8309

Living Room / Re: amount of RAM in a netbook

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 02:40 PM »

I've used 1GB netbooks with success, having no problems with web browsing/e-mail (using a web client).  It is a bit slower, and more RAM does help.  But it's definitely doable.

8310

General Software Discussion / Re: Pirated Software and Viruses? Ahem... No. I don't want to help you...

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 01:32 PM »

Sums up the whole problem for me. If you want to sell your software, have an easily available demo. Microsoft is generous in this regard and is actually a good example (for putting up trail versions, not the fact that they still get pirated as hell).

-Shades (May 02, 2011, 01:10 PM)

^ this.  But still- I just choose to buy or not based on what I've seen/heard rather than pirate.  But I do realize that this is my own decision, and try not to foist that on others.

8311

Living Room / Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 01:29 PM »

heheh, "they hate our freedoms"; i've not heard that one before.

-nudone (May 02, 2011, 12:59 PM)

It seems to me that in a lot of cases, it just boils down to "they hate..."

-Renegade (May 02, 2011, 01:07 PM)

Even sadder though, is that a lot of it boils down to "'we' hate..."

8312

Living Room / Re: Sony Playstation Network hacked - All your infos are belong to hackers.

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 01:27 PM »

http://massively.joy...ue-to-serious-issue/

Other SOE services are also offline.  It is not clear if they were hacked also, if this a precautionary measure, or if this for forensic purposes...

8313

Living Room / Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 12:21 PM »

I see it as boiling down to killing is killing.

The only question then is, are you willing to commit "evil"?

-Renegade (May 02, 2011, 11:29 AM)

Agreed that killing is killing.  Not so clearcut on whether killing in all cases is "evil"- at least IMO.

8314

General Software Discussion / Re: Pirated Software and Viruses? Ahem... No. I don't want to help you...

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 11:02 AM »

Well, like I said... more palatable.  Not entirely. 

8315

Living Room / Re: should I ragequit?

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 11:00 AM »

The other thing that is very important to point out is the contribution *you* make to a group by holding and voicing opinions that are contrary to others.  Does any of us really want a forum here where we all agree with each other on everything?

If a group as a whole starts advancing core positions that you find morally unacceptable, and you conclude that your mere presence in the group by those that disagree is lending weight to this objectionable opinion, then resigning in protest can be an important action to take.  But it's also true that if everyone left a group every time there was a heavy disagreement about something, then every group would rapidly evolve into a collection of single-minded obnoxious bullies.  Sometimes being a voice of dissent within a family/group is an important thing.

-mouser (May 02, 2011, 10:25 AM)

This is a very rationed and reasonable approach to the issue, IMO.  I hate going to forums where people 'discuss' issues, but all anyone ever does is agree.  And then it is called a discussion forum.  I want a place where I can go and discuss issues with people that have opposing views.  Not for the purpose of changing them to my view- that's pretty much impossible.  Change is an internal thing, and very personal.  But for the purpose of broadening my view, educating myself, and formulating an opinion that is not a product of a hidebound world view.  Facts speak only so much, so is only a part of formulating views on subjects.  But one of the things necessary for such an approach is to be very individually minded, and very rational in your approach to such discussions.  And I think for the most part, we have a group of people that don't find it necessary for someone else to agree with them in order for their position to have merit.  And I've found this invaluable and rare in the communities that I've frequented, as everyone wants to be heard, and no one to listen.

Your communications have been an invaluable part of the conversation, and I, for one, would hate to see you (or anyone) go over a difference in opinion.

...off.

-housetier (May 02, 2011, 09:02 AM)

thanks a lot

all you're proving now is that you too can be an a$$hole

-tomos (May 02, 2011, 10:53 AM)

...not helping?

8316

Living Room / Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 10:52 AM »

So, what would you advocate? I ask this not with any sarcasm, I am truly curious as to what you think the alternative should be. When one party launches a military assault on a country, inflicting heavy civilian casualties, what should be done? Should it go unanswered, which would invite more attacks?

I should also remind you that a lot of the collateral damage is caused by cowards who take refuge in population centers and who use women and children as human shields. One of the four killed last night was a woman that one of the men was using as a human shield. This weekend there was a bombing in Iraq against civilians where they used a 12 year old boy as the suicide attacker. Where is your outrage at that?

-edbro (May 02, 2011, 10:46 AM)

Personally, I think the largest weapon against such is to not use pejorative and leading terms in referring to what you're doing.  If you're willing to undertake an op against a target that you recognize will use such tactics, then don't sugar coat what you're doing- but put it down as precedent for (1) what the cost in lives other than to the soldiers involved might/will be, and (2) the case for why that risk is willing to be taken or what can be done to mitigate this chance for harm.  In too many cases we take the easy way out in order to mitigate operational risk, and not to put boots on the ground.  Military caskets make bad politics.  But in order to not put faceless people in other countries on the line, sometimes those military caskets will be the cost.  Our lives or theirs is what it comes down to in the end, but no one is willing to admit that this is the choice.

8317

Living Room / Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 10:47 AM »

(there is IMHO a big difference between collateral damage and deliberately targeting civilians, though)

-f0dder (May 02, 2011, 07:34 AM)

IMHO, no difference whatsoever. When you start bombing a country, you know there will be civilian casualties and you know this is not avoidable. Saying they are not deliberate is just that - saying it. You made it deliberate when you set out to bomb a city or a village full of civilians.

-tranglos (May 02, 2011, 10:34 AM)

But the point of the matter is that it is avoidable, for the fact that there are operations where it doesn't happen.  It's just a matter of how much operational risk are you willing to take to avoid civilian casualties.  (BTW- I abhor the term collateral damage.  It's a euphemism used to cover up the fact that this damage takes its toll in lives.  If you're going to do the act, at least look it in the eye when you do so.)

8318

Developer's Corner / Re: New Twist on Basic

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 10:04 AM »

I think it's more BASIC was designed to be an application rather than a systems programming language. As such, there's very little need for many of the powerful capabilities and "bare metal" access C provides when you're doing apps. In many respects they do noting but add an additional layer of unnecessary risk and complexity.

-40hz (May 02, 2011, 09:49 AM)

I don't think that the original iterations of BASIC were designed to be an application programming language.

Besides, e do they get off dissing BASIC as being CareBear country when 90% of what's being written for Windows uses .NET or some other collection of pre-canned routines or libraries? Half the time these "professional" programmers use C for nothing more than glue to hold a bunch of stick code together.

-40hz (May 02, 2011, 09:49 AM)

Whoa there.  I applied the CareBear in the terms of it keeping you in a safer environment for beginners where catastrophic failures are less likely, and concepts are easier to grasp.  Not meaning anything negative about it in those terms- it is what it is.  And for better or worse, there are limitations on BASIC that aren't imposed in even .NET.  You can easily bridge the managed/unmanaged code barriers if you are of a mindset/have a need to do it.  And I don't even view Visual Basic as basic, truthfully.  It's similarities to basic ended quite a while ago, and in .NET it's just a preference, more than a real difference IME.  I think you're finding disparaging where there was none intended?

8319

Living Room / Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 09:57 AM »

What would you have us do?

-edbro (May 02, 2011, 08:16 AM)

Have him stand trial.

-housetier (May 02, 2011, 08:40 AM)

+1

But it just goes to show what kind of a world we live in. It's perfectly fine to murder people if you can get away with it. It's also fine to steal and do anything else if you can get away with it. The only "evil" in this world is "getting caught/punished".

-Renegade (May 02, 2011, 09:22 AM)

I don't know.  A capture order is a lot more difficult to execute than a kill order- putting those that go after him in a lot more danger.  And it doesn't put an ending on things... riots, security, the ability to even *have* a meaningful trial (not just a kangaroo court), and the threat of tit for tat kidnappings.  And let's not mention the fact that even a guilty verdict is no guarantee that he would stay in prison.  In some cases, expedience definitely trumps ideal outcomes IMO.

I'm old fashioned in that way- never women or children.

-wraith808 (May 02, 2011, 09:18 AM)

Oh, that's NATO's job to kill women and children.

-Renegade (May 02, 2011, 09:26 AM)

Wartime situations are a different animal, unfortunately, which is the reason that handling such situations with precision strikes rather than the broad brush of wartime operations is a better option if possible.  The larger the weapon, the more chance of casualties such as these.

8320

Living Room / Re: should I ragequit?

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 09:49 AM »

A possibility is to mute the conversation- you can ignore threads.  And I always take things like the forums in the context of the fact that you don't really *know* anyone online.  You know them in the context of the conversation.  And though you talk with someone everyday on a forum, if you truly knew the person, that person online might seem more ephemeral.

I quote f0dder again for truth:

Easy now, housey.

People are different - some are cheering, some aren't. This forum is pretty diverse, just as real life is. And, agree with their emotions or not, do keep in mind the scar 9/11 has carved in many Amerikans; while I don't necessarily feel the same way as they do, I understand their emotions.

-f0dder (May 02, 2011, 08:48 AM)

I think everyone values your contributions here, and your presence.  That said, I must echo 40hz who said it better than I:

Best wishes with whatever decision you ultimately make.

If you decide to stay, it's always good to see you.

If you decide to leave, it was nice meeting you. Safe journeys.

Onward!  

-40hz (May 02, 2011, 09:23 AM)

8321

Living Room / Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 09:18 AM »

How about 2,977 of "us" to 1 of "them"?

-wraith808 (May 02, 2011, 07:26 AM)

Sorry this is my last comment on this but... it isn't 3000 to 1, it is 3000 to untold numbers (probably more than 100000) of innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan. OK bin Laden deserved what he got but aren't the US and UK supposed to be civilised countries that say they want to show the way to a better future? If so how do street celebrations help? Relief that he is no longer part of the problem yes - celebration over murder (not justice) is no way forward. And don't forget the cost paid by all those other civilians caught in the middle.

-Carol Haynes (May 02, 2011, 07:42 AM)

I'll let that one lie.  I was comparing the one statement of the one person that was killed that was unrepentant and currently killing versus those (and that number is a bit light- as that was only the figure for 9/11) that he killed.  And if you're going to go to Iraq and Afganistan, then you also have to include those that he killed in those countries.  Not US forces.  But civilians- especially Muslim civilians.  He killed more Muslims than Americans/Europeans, truth be told.

I probably didn't phrase that well.

Compare pictures of people rejoicing after 9/11 and the recent pictures of people doing the same thing over Osama. It's the same thing - people screaming for blood.

Either way, it's pretty sad to see people getting all hard & wet over other people dying.

I can't claim to be an angel though. There are people out there that I think would be better off dead, and people that I think would make the world a better place if they died.

I suppose it seems to be a fine line between rejoicing over someone's death, and being glad for what their death represents.

-Renegade (May 02, 2011, 07:45 AM)

I can get behind that sentiment.  I'm not glad nor rejoicing that a human died.  In fact, I feel very little in regards to that in this case- positive or negative (take that for what you will).  What I am glad about is that one of the unrepentant architects of needless sufferings has been taken to task for his actions.  I'm old fashioned in that way- never women or children.

8322

Developer's Corner / Re: New Twist on Basic

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 09:09 AM »

After just glancing at the OP sample code, I'm pretty sure I could do the same sample dialog in pure C with  less code ... *Shrug* ... So I'm lost on an advantage there.

-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 10:28 AM)

Basic's keywords and syntax are generally considered a lot easier for new and novice programmers to follow?

Also, pure C makes it a lot easier for you to screw things up royally because there's nothing it won't let you do. Even badly.

 

-40hz (May 02, 2011, 07:47 AM)

Yeah... QFT.  Basic isn't made to be efficient, but to be carebear land, to borrow a term from MMOs.

8323

Living Room / Re: Congratz to the US Military Forces!

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 07:26 AM »

That's assuming they got the right guy - a quick burial at sea seems a bit fishy to me (sorry for he pun).

-Carol Haynes (May 02, 2011, 05:49 AM)

They did DNA testing apparently.

I, for one, do not think that killing people is a good thing.

-housetier (May 02, 2011, 05:11 AM)

And I'll counter this by saying that sometimes people just need killing...

See this timeline of his recordings.  Not someone who was repentant about what he had done... and not someone who was going to stop organizing operations to kill others.

<sarcasm>It's a travesty if one of "us" gets killed, and justice when "we" kill one of "them". </sarcasm>

The level of hypocrisy in some places is, well... I leave that alone.

-Renegade (May 02, 2011, 07:10 AM)

How about 2,977 of "us" to 1 of "them"?

Might've been smart having the body buried on Muslim ground - just saying.

-f0dder (May 02, 2011, 06:41 AM)

And how do you go about finding an legitimized group that would be willing to host such a burial?

And on a lighter note...

8324

General Software Discussion / Re: Pirated Software and Viruses? Ahem... No. I don't want to help you...

« Last post by wraith808 on May 02, 2011, 07:18 AM »

but asking a programmer for help with pirated software? priceless

-f0dder (May 02, 2011, 03:59 AM)

You would be surprised to see how many developers use pirate software.

-fenixproductions (May 02, 2011, 07:01 AM)

I know one.  But he's more palatable than most- he only pirates software for which there is no demo, and if he likes it/plays it past a couple of hours, he buys a legitimate copy.

8325

Living Room / Re: Science Fiction and Fantasy Reading List

« Last post by wraith808 on May 01, 2011, 09:16 PM »

I love Lewis (one of my absolute favorites, if not #1). He's brilliant. His apologetics are amazing. His essays are remarkable. A wonderful author for anyone to read, and if he recommends it, hey, it's got to have merit~!

+1

-kyrathaba (May 01, 2011, 07:33 PM)

Agreed totally