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726
Living Room / Re: Peer Review and the Scientific Process
« Last post by Renegade on February 08, 2015, 10:30 PM »
^A thought: perhaps we're too easily equating 'corporate researchers' with scientists? And 'corporate sponsored research' with science? ;)

What's wrong with you? Are you one of those anti-vaxxers? :P ;)
727
Living Room / Re: Peer Review and the Scientific Process
« Last post by Renegade on February 08, 2015, 09:13 PM »
(Cross-post from down "there".)

And more from the fraud dept...

http://www.telegraph...ce-scandal-ever.html

Following my last article, Homewood checked a swathe of other South American weather stations around the original three. In each case he found the same suspicious one-way “adjustments”. First these were made by the US government’s Global Historical Climate Network (GHCN). They were then amplified by two of the main official surface records, the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (Giss) and the National Climate Data Center (NCDC), which use the warming trends to estimate temperatures across the vast regions of the Earth where no measurements are taken. Yet these are the very records on which scientists and politicians rely for their belief in “global warming”.

Homewood has now turned his attention to the weather stations across much of the Arctic, between Canada (51 degrees W) and the heart of Siberia (87 degrees E). Again, in nearly every case, the same one-way adjustments have been made, to show warming up to 1 degree C or more higher than was indicated by the data that was actually recorded. This has surprised no one more than Traust Jonsson, who was long in charge of climate research for the Iceland met office (and with whom Homewood has been in touch). Jonsson was amazed to see how the new version completely “disappears” Iceland’s “sea ice years” around 1970, when a period of extreme cooling almost devastated his country’s economy.



Change all the data to make it fit your narrative, then let people review your narrative and verify it against the data.

Oh, where have we heard that story before? Oh... that's right... a Merck whistleblower...

Hm...
728
Not silly, but technology:



http://www.smbc-comics.com/

729
Living Room / Re: Peer Review and the Scientific Process
« Last post by Renegade on February 08, 2015, 05:06 PM »
Just saw this:



730
Living Room / Re: Peer Review and the Scientific Process
« Last post by Renegade on February 08, 2015, 04:31 PM »
Marcia Angell is a Senior Lecturer in Social Medicine 
at Harvard Medical School and former Editor in Chief of The New England Journal of Medicine.


 


http://www.nybooks.c...story-of-corruption/

Drug Companies & Doctors: A Story of Corruption

It's a long article, but it is worth a read for anyone interested in the general topic of this thread.

tl;dr - The Medical Industrial Complex is full of fraud.

731
Living Room / Re: Interesting "stuff"
« Last post by Renegade on February 07, 2015, 08:51 AM »
Dandelions good for a garden???

http://104homestead....-herbs-permaculture/

1. Dandelion (Taraxacum officinale)

Say what? You want me to let this weed in my garden??? Surprisingly, dandelions – like many weeds – benefit our garden in many ways, the most important of which is fertilizer. Dandelions reach deep into the subsoil with those long taproots, dredge up important nutrients, and store them in their leaves.

Dandelions excel at accumulating potassium, phosphorus, calcium, and a handful of other nutrients in its leaves, which are important for healthy plant growth. When those leaves die back or are cut back and left to decompose, they fertilize the soil.

I let dandelions grow in my vegetable garden and it is common to encourage dandelions to grow in orchards under fruit trees. Dandelions increase earthworm populations, which is good for healthy soil.

About once a month I snip the leaves off and compost them in place, which also discourages the plant from flowering and going to seed. Dandelions are good, but I don’t need a dandelion garden!

Those nutrient-rich leaves aren’t only good for my garden and my soil, but they’re also good for me. Yep, dandelion greens are edible. I add the young, bright green spring leaves to salad mix.

Some market gardeners even cultivate a specific variety of dandelion with giant leaves as a crop. On purpose! Local chefs go nuts over it. Also, apparently, so do chickens. Consider adding dandelion seed to your foraging seed mix.

As if that weren’t enough, dandelion also has medicinal uses. The dried root is an excellent liver and kidney tonic. If dandelions are left to flower, they will attract pollinators and beneficial insects. For all of these reasons and more, dandelion is one of my top 5 weeds to keep in the garden.

More interesting stuff for gardeners at the link.
732
Living Room / Re: Peer Review and the Scientific Process
« Last post by Renegade on February 07, 2015, 08:41 AM »
Anyone ready for a real lovely little mindf**k? Get out the intellectual KY jelly and lube your mind. It's going to get a bit rough! ;)

To save time, start here: http://youtu.be/JKHUaNAxsTg?t=10m

That's the 10 minute mark.



He points out how some scientific constants fluctuate, and specifically the speed of light and the universal gravitation constant. More in the video.

If he's right, "peer review" has had a seriously massive cluster-f**k of a disaster of cosmic proportions. Beyond that, the implications of the incompetence of those involved is simply astounding.

733
More of "The Conspiracy Guy"!  :Thmbsup:

Much of this will probably go over a lot of people's heads, but for the references that you do get, they're pretty funny.

Spoiler for 1 reference
Time reference cued: http://youtu.be/VVnkokDFSxg?t=1m31s

Right) Hollywood.
Left) Magic wand.

A magic wand is ideally made of holly wood, i.e. the wood from a holly plant.

Here are some conspiracy links:

http://www.secretsin...magic-of-holly-wood/

http://genius.com/12...-from-the-holly-tree

The bit on Hollywood starts at about 1:50.



You can probably find even wilder (or crazier) stuff out there.




1 thing I got a kick out of...
The "reptilian alien" reference with the "They Live" allusion.  :Thmbsup:


734
Living Room / Re: The banality of a darknet developer
« Last post by Renegade on February 07, 2015, 12:21 AM »
^^ Heh! That was cute! I'd not seen that before.

BTW - Ambiguity in number agreement is actually very interesting. :) The tl;dr is that you end up switching a subject and its modifier in order to emphasise where the importance is. However, you may still end up with disagreements between British and American grammarians. FWIW, American grammar delivers more information in this context.
735
Living Room / Re: Peer Review and the Scientific Process
« Last post by Renegade on February 06, 2015, 09:33 PM »
^ As you've pointed out many times in other contexts... "It's a people problem."  :Thmbsup:
736
Living Room / Re: The banality of a darknet developer
« Last post by Renegade on February 06, 2015, 09:25 PM »
Just to point out some tidbits about English grammar...

@Ren - to your very good point, I've changed the header in the OP to read "a Darknet developer" rather than "the Darknet developer." It's much more accurate to phrase it that way. :Thmbsup:

Yes - the use of the indefinite article "a/an" changes the meaning significantly (see below at the end). Which leads to...

Hmmm... I develop software.  And I'm on the internet.

... I'm an... internet developer?!

This works because of the general familiarity of the terminology is able to dispel any ambiguity. i.e. The semantic components themselves act to clarify the grammar.

I'm an architect.  And I'm on the internet.

I'M AN ARCHITECT OF THE INTERNET!  

This doesn't work. The structure:

> Noun1 of Noun2

Can be rearranged as:

> Noun2's Noun1

Or, in this case:

> I'M THE INTERNET'S ARCHITECT!

(Also, compare "John's son" and "the son of John".)

(In other words, the difference between an adjective and a possessive can be obscured by the syntax (grammar).)

The meaning there is significantly different from:

> I'm an Internet architect.

As with "internet developer", this is grammatically ambiguous, though the context and frequency of use should serve to clarify the intended meaning, i.e. A developer on the Internet vs. A developer of the Internet.

With "darknet", the term isn't in sufficiently common usage for most people to be able to properly understand the intended meaning, i.e. they do not have any reference to make the proper distinction. Thus, usage is prone to ambiguity. Again, the difference between whether it is a possessive or adjective creates that ambiguity. Here's another example:

1. Microsoft Xbox
2. Microsoft's Xbox

In #1 we are sufficiently familiar with "Microsoft" to understand the relationship. (Also, there's a different emphasis at play here, but for the current purpose, that should be ignored to avoid tangents.)

I'm quite certain that everyone here understands well enough what "the darknet" is and isn't, but this crowd is extraordinarily well educated in the general field, and far above what your average computer user is. For us to understand the proper relationships is trivial (or second nature), but for the general public, there is a good deal of ambiguity going on. i.e. It is simple for experts to discern meanings from ambiguous text as they can recognise absurdities that the general public may not be able to.

Far too often language gets co-opted for political purposes, and while our politics may differ significantly, I'm relatively certain that we all share a common value in cherishing an open and free (as in freedom) world-wide communications network (information super-highway/Internet/darknet/meshnet/whatevernet).

Anyways... Hopefully I've illustrated one of those tidbits in English grammar where ambiguity can create confusion.


But to the point that I was making... it's a developer that uses the Darknet.  And I think that's the point that Ren was getting to.  Someone using the medium that just happens to be a developer... isn't a developer of that medium.

Yes. I was pretty lazy above and only outlined that specific case. Here above I mentioned the definite article, but didn't expand on that -- I think it's clear enough to understand how "the darknet developer" can be interpreted as an abstract noun, and thus, "all developers on the darknet" can then be inferred, again illustrating how that ambiguity quickly mushrooms into a wildly inaccurate distortion of the facts.

Now, would anyone like me to lecture on number agreement and ambiguity in English grammar? ;D



737
Living Room / Re: Recommend some music videos to me!
« Last post by Renegade on February 06, 2015, 10:32 AM »
For some reason it reminded me of something from a long time ago. My first thought was "Baby Got Back" for visuals, but not sure.

Had the same reaction. It's not even really a song. It's more like what you'd call an extended riff in my book. It reminded me of an old clunker from back in the bad ol' 80s (which was pretty much an Ice Age for pop music) called I`m Too Sexy. It was...uh...performed?... by a rather odd saccharin skinhead duo called 'Right Said Fred.'



I could never decide if they were just another not-very-good 80s group - or if they were some elaborate "in" crowd put-down on the whole MTV/music video thing.


I just saw RSF mentioned here. Looks like they won't make it to Anarchapulco, but they're still touring. I've not seen any interviews with them, so I'm not really sure where they stand as far as you've talked about above. However, that they'd consider going to Anarchapulco, or be asked says a bit.
738
Living Room / Re: The banality of the darknet developer
« Last post by Renegade on February 06, 2015, 09:44 AM »
I just want to interject a bit on the term "darknet developer"...

Clarifications
"Darknet" is NOT about drugs & crime & terrorism & raping puppies/kittens.

Can that stuff happen? Yes.

What is it about? An decentralised alternative to traditional ISPs:

http://www.reddit.com/r/darknetplan/

http://wiki.projectm....org/Getting_started

Project Meshnet aims to build a sustainable, decentralized, alternative internet. You can help in several ways, from spreading the word, starting up your first Cjdns node, or starting a local meshnet group called a MeshLocal.

(The TOR network is also referred to as a "darknet" -- multiple uses there.)

Calling this fellow a "darknet developer" is misleading. If he were a "darknet developer", he'd be working on Cjdns or something similar. He isn't.
 



739
Living Room / Re: Programming/Coder humor
« Last post by Renegade on February 05, 2015, 09:12 PM »
Best StackOverflow answer.  Ever.

http://stackoverflow...-self-contained-tags

 :'(

Oh my god... that was BEAUTIFUL~! EPIC~! :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:

740
Living Room / Re: Peer Review and the Scientific Process
« Last post by Renegade on February 05, 2015, 09:04 PM »
On the topic of data fraud, Benford's law is extremely interesting. It has to do with the distribution of digits. Here's a nice explanation of it:



And the associated blog post:

http://periodicvideo...-youtube-videos.html

Of course, if you already know this, you can still create fraudulent data that conforms to Benford's law; that merely indicates a higher level of sophistication on the part of the fraudster.
741
Living Room / Re: Movies or films you've seen lately
« Last post by Renegade on February 05, 2015, 07:55 PM »
My primary concern was that it would be too raunchy/inappropriate.

Are we getting old? :)

I have no problems with cursing and a lot of other things, but I no longer need to see any gore - at all. I used to "kind of" like gore flicks, but not at all anymore.

As for sex in movies, I hate it. If it's actually a very real plot device, and done carefully, it can work, but that's exceedingly rare. I think I like the Jackie Chan level of sex in movies, i.e. possibly a peck on the cheek. With lots of free porn available, there's no reason to have it in movies at all. (Well, unless you're a 14-year old boy, but then there's still National Geographic and the Sears catalogue. :P )

So... yeah... I get that "too raunchy/inappropriate" bit. There are movies that I simply never watch because I know that they're going to have a lot of that, and I'm just not interested in it.

I don't recall if there was much of that in Guardians of the Galaxy though.
742
Living Room / Re: Interesting "stuff"
« Last post by Renegade on February 05, 2015, 07:45 PM »
I messed with someone's video driver at work so it reduced the viewport by 1 pixel every day.  Long term pranks are the best.


HAHAHAHA~! That is EVIL~! I love it~! ;D  :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:
743
Tom Woods interviews Richard Bennett.

From the show notes:

Richard Bennett, a visiting fellow of the American Enterprise Institute, is an expert on Internet technology and public policy. He co-invented Ethernet over Twisted Pair, the Wi-Fi MAC protocol, and miscellaneous network enhancements such as the MPDU Aggregation system for 802.11n, the Distributed Reservation Protocol for UWB, and various tweaks and hacks to the Internet and OSI protocols.

His experience with legislative bodies spans two decades, beginning with expert witness testimony before multiple committees of the California legislature in the 1990s and continuing to recent testimony before the U.S. Congress on Internet privacy.

SHOW TOPIC: Richard goes over the history of networking and then gets into net neutrality.

FAIR WARNING: Tom is a historian (Harvard/Columbia) and an anarchist (ancap), so he's not the kind of fellow that everyone will like. However, the show is mainly about the history and economics of networking with very little about anarchism.



Show Notes: http://tomwoods.com/...t-without-the-state/

744
Living Room / Re: Peer Review and the Scientific Process
« Last post by Renegade on February 05, 2015, 06:49 PM »
Apologies if I wasn't clear and you felt offended.

Me? Hell no! :) I just figure that you like to poke me a bit every now and then to see how I react (or, go off the rails as it were). ;D I'd be remiss if I didn't! 8)


I also think I see where some confusion enters into the picture. I wasn't responding to your post immediately above mine. It was a more general question - as in I don't know much about a lot of this, so do you have some good in-depth sources (like an online university level course or two) you'd care to share that puts you in a better position than me to say what's real when it comes to this stuff?

There's not much that anyone needs to know. A guy blew the whistle.

Now, for the underlying issue, yes - we would need a good amount of additional information, e.g. university level courses, to comment on the "science". However, I don't think that this is one topic that we should get into as it is simply far too hot.

There are quite a few lectures (from experts in the field) that you can view online about the underlying issue. The range of opinions spans the full gambit from super-uber-pro-vaccine, down through the range of healthy skepticism, and way on over to rabidly-anti-vaccine.

Tomos hits exactly what we should be concerned about:

(FWIW I'm broadly pro-vaccine myself, but dubious about the methods used to force it on the populace, and dubious about relations between the FDA and the corporations developing the vaccines.)

But, those issues are about 1) forced medication, and 2) corruption, which while a degree in philosophy or law is certainly an advantage in discussing them, there's enough wiggle room for input from others. :)

However, that's off topic. My original point in the post above was to point out a whistle blower in the scientific community. This goes to illustrate:

1) "Scientists" are human.
2) Humans are corruptible.

It is that bit of corruption that is a serious issue for those that claim "peer review" is some kind of holy cow in science.

 
745
Living Room / Re: Peer Review and the Scientific Process
« Last post by Renegade on February 05, 2015, 11:25 AM »
@40 - I said exactly nothing towards one side of the debate on the topic. I merely pointed out that a researcher at Merck has pointed out that they were involved in scientific fraud. I think that I'm educated enough to point out that a scientific researcher has blown the whistle on fraud. This isn't really an issue of qualifications. ;)

Given that this researcher was directly involved in "revising" the data, I kinda think he might have a thing or two to say on the issue/fraud.

But, y'know... Like I said... It's going to upset some people. ;)

While I don't automatically dismiss a lot of what you're saying or arguing for out of hand, I'm still less confident than you are about the validity of a lot of the 'evidence' being presented.

Are you high? I post drunk sometimes, and I do go off the rails every now and then, but this is pretty clear cut -- a researcher at Merck has blown the whistle that they published fraudulent information about one of their products. That's all. It's a simple matter of fact. Are you trying to say that Stephen A Krahling doesn't actually exist, or that he didn't blow the whistle? ;)

Or, are you trying to say that one of the researchers involved in the product that has blown the whistle isn't qualified to talk about what he was researching? ;)

In case you missed it, here's the document for the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania where the action took place:

* Merck-False-Claims-Act.pdf (944.86 kB - downloaded 288 times.)

I suppose that someone could look it up here:

https://www.paed.uscourts.gov

But... from here: https://www.paed.usc...urts.gov/us01001.asp

What You Need
  • Personal computer
  • Compatible Web browser (CM/ECF has been tested and works correctly with Netscape 4.7x and 7.0x. and Internet Explorer 5.5 and 6.0)
  • Internet access
[/size]

I'm not that confident that they're very competent. ;)

I told you it would be uncomfortable. :D
746
Living Room / Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Last post by Renegade on February 05, 2015, 10:51 AM »
Am I missing something?

Yes.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Is speech not allowed in court?


Maybe you meant Amendments V through VIII?

Nope. We don't even need to go there. Full stop at the 1st. That's all that is needed to show that the US judicial system is a complete and total farce and that the judges and related officers are nothing but criminals.


I don't see anything in any of the above that was clearly (or even obscurely) violated. :(

The first was obviously violated.

Or is speech in court not counted?

That would be a clear violation of the 6th, but only if you believe that a trial involves actually allowing a defense. If you don't believe that defendents are allowed to present a defense, then, well, all bets are off. Accusations equal convictions?

I think that we both know where that leads. The 4th box.


Perhaps you're saying that the due process itself is unjust? Well, therein lies the critical difference between what the law actually says - as opposed to what most of us (i.e. non-attorneys) usually think it says or wish it said.

There is no due process. It's a bloody joke. The rules are "fixed".

The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

A mighty fine proposition! :P

If the law is incomprehensible, f**k it. Really.

Does everyone need to have a law degree to function?

If so, then yes. Killing all the lawyers is a good start to stave off that insanity.

You don't get off that easy talking about "Oh, gee, if only we poor serfs understood the heights and depths of law, and how it makes 'society' a better place!"

BS.

If everyone needs to spend 4 years of their life studying law, killing all the lawyers is a far, far better option.

Should we have any problems with slitting people's throats when they're attempting to force people into labour? Slavery isn't cool, and the implications of what you've said imply exactly that (if one accepts that "ignorance of the law is no excuse" -- need to be somewhat clear with that qualification before we start killing all the lawyers :P ).

Keep this in mind:

http://thelead.blogs...take-effect-in-2014/

40,000 new laws. That YOU are responsible for. Personally. And that you MUST know. (Ok, well... some you won't need to know because you are in IT and don't need to know some new commercial fishing laws, etc. But either way... 40,000 or 400... it's a LOT!)

Sorry - No. There is no reasonable expectation for most people to know what the law is. At all. Except in the most basic forms, e.g. theft, murder, etc.

40,000 new laws? In 1 year? Really?

Ignorance of the law **IS** an excuse.

But, this is a wild tangent.

It still remains that the judge violated Ross' fundamental right to free speech in proscribing several of his proposed defenses.

The real criminal here is Katherine Bolan Forrest (TOR .onion link).

If Ross was the DPR, he did nothing wrong.

If Ross was the DPR, he's a bloody hero.

Please note that some of the most popular drugs on the Silk Road were prescription drugs sold for 10% of the cost of regular prescriptions.

Does that give any more perspective on the issue? ;)





747
Living Room / Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Last post by Renegade on February 05, 2015, 08:54 AM »
Let's drop the jury selection bit. We're going across jurisdictions, and my memory of law classes may be a bit fuzzy. So, it's not a point that I think I can keep up with. Call it a win for 40hz. ;) (And I'll check into the docs you posted once I have time.)

But you didn't address the 1st amendment violation. This seems to be a teensy, tiny bit important.

I don't see how there's any way around that.

The judge put a gun to the defense's head and threatened them if they tried a sane defense (speech).

Trying to claim "federal rules of evidence" doesn't address the issue. If anything, it only illustrates the debasement of the first amendment and the criminality of the courts, judges, lawyers, and politicians that are complicit in that crime.
748
Living Room / Re: Peer Review and the Scientific Process
« Last post by Renegade on February 05, 2015, 08:33 AM »
Some very uncomfortable damnation for "peer review" and "science"...

FAIR WARNING: This will upset some people. There are many stories in the MSM revolving around this broader issue at the moment.

Fraud at Merck.

Link to source document (PDF).

749
Living Room / Re: Programming/Coder humor
« Last post by Renegade on February 05, 2015, 07:18 AM »
RFC 1925

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1925


Network Working Group                                  R. Callon, Editor
Request for Comments: 1925                                          IOOF
Category: Informational                                     1 April 1996


                      The Twelve Networking Truths

Status of this Memo

   This memo provides information for the Internet community.  This memo
   does not specify an Internet standard of any kind.  Distribution of
   this memo is unlimited.

Abstract

   This memo documents the fundamental truths of networking for the
   Internet community. This memo does not specify a standard, except in
   the sense that all standards must implicitly follow the fundamental
   truths.

Acknowledgements

   The truths described in this memo result from extensive study over an
   extended period of time by many people, some of whom did not intend
   to contribute to this work. The editor merely has collected these
   truths, and would like to thank the networking community for
   originally illuminating these truths.

1. Introduction

   This Request for Comments (RFC) provides information about the
   fundamental truths underlying all networking. These truths apply to
   networking in general, and are not limited to TCP/IP, the Internet,
   or any other subset of the networking community.

2. The Fundamental Truths

   (1)  It Has To Work.

   (2)  No matter how hard you push and no matter what the priority,
        you can't increase the speed of light.

        (2a) (corollary). No matter how hard you try, you can't make a
             baby in much less than 9 months. Trying to speed this up
             *might* make it slower, but it won't make it happen any
             quicker.

Callon                       Informational                      [Page 1]

RFC 1925            Fundamental Truths of Networking        1 April 1996


   (3)  With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is
        not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they
        are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them
        as they fly overhead.

   (4)  Some things in life can never be fully appreciated nor
        understood unless experienced firsthand. Some things in
        networking can never be fully understood by someone who neither
        builds commercial networking equipment nor runs an operational
        network.

   (5)  It is always possible to aglutenate multiple separate problems
        into a single complex interdependent solution. In most cases
        this is a bad idea.

   (6)  It is easier to move a problem around (for example, by moving
        the problem to a different part of the overall network
        architecture) than it is to solve it.

        (6a) (corollary). It is always possible to add another level of
             indirection.

   (7)  It is always something

        (7a) (corollary). Good, Fast, Cheap: Pick any two (you can't
            have all three).

   (8)  It is more complicated than you think.

   (9)  For all resources, whatever it is, you need more.

       (9a) (corollary) Every networking problem always takes longer to
            solve than it seems like it should.

   (10) One size never fits all.

   (11) Every old idea will be proposed again with a different name and
        a different presentation, regardless of whether it works.

        (11a) (corollary). See rule 6a.

   (12) In protocol design, perfection has been reached not when there
        is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take
        away.


Callon                       Informational                      [Page 2]

RFC 1925            Fundamental Truths of Networking        1 April 1996


Security Considerations

   This RFC raises no security issues. However, security protocols are
   subject to the fundamental networking truths.

References

   The references have been deleted in order to protect the guilty and
   avoid enriching the lawyers.

Author's Address

   Ross Callon
   Internet Order of Old Farts
   c/o Bay Networks
   3 Federal Street
   Billerica, MA  01821

   Phone: 508-436-3936
   EMail: [email protected]

Callon                       Informational                      [Page 3]

750
Living Room / Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Last post by Renegade on February 05, 2015, 06:46 AM »
@Ren - You're still overlooking the 800lb gorilla in the picture.

If you mean the thugs that call themselves "government" or "government employees", well, no argument that they are the 800lb gorilla. ;)

re: jury nullification

Again, almost always in movies.

No.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Jury_nullification

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/R_v_Morgentaler

R v Morgentaler [1] was a decision of the Supreme Court of Canada which held that the abortion provision in the Criminal Code of Canada was unconstitutional, as it violated a woman's right under section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to security of person. Since this ruling, there have been no criminal laws regulating abortion in Canada.

Jury nullification there. And one of the most important cases in Canadian law.

A paper on it here:

http://www.academia....n_a_Canadian_Context

p. 62~64 (screwed formatting)
 
The unanimous decision in Krieger was written by Justice Fish and it further demonstrates the Supreme Court of Canada‘s willingness to link law and morality, embracing edicts of natural law. The Supreme Courtaffirmed the not guilty verdict which the trial jury would have rendered because they believed more so in the process than the plain meaning interpretation of the statute. Fish states

    It has since then (in 1670, when jurors were fined and imprisoned for a ―not guilty verdict) been well established that under the system of justice we have inherited fromEngland juries are not entitled as a matter of right to refuse to apply the law — but they do have the  power to do so when their consciences permit of no other course.

This paragraph is suggestive that the judges of the Supreme Court believe in juries using their own morality. Justice Fish is quick to point out that the process of refusing to apply the law, or nullification is not ― a matter of right but that the power to do so exists, only when it is deemedby that jury to be absolutely necessary. When a jury‘s collective conscience tells them that thereis ―no other course‖ of action this is when nullification is absolutely necessary, as the jury felt in
was the situation in this case. Furthermore, the Court continues into the next paragraph by stating 
63
case law from 1784 that they have used throughout Canadian jurisprudence as the base for jurynullification:

    It is the duty of the Judge, in all cases of general justice, to tell the jury how to do right,though they have it in their power to do wrong, which is a matter entirely between Godand their own consciences.

Justice Fish indicates that while the Court has decided in this case and going forward that trial judges should not instruct jurors on how to find, that judges should still instruct jurors on what is the most appropriate legal course of action, or how to ―do right. Whether or not a jury chooses to abide by that course of action is, as the Supreme Court decided in this case, up to them.

Fish is here:

http://scc.lexum.umo...scc47/2006scc47.html

Cached here (I couldn't load it):

http://webcache.goog...=au&client=opera

Just one important snippet from there:

The trial judge deprived the accused of his constitutional right to a trial by jury when he directed the jury to find the accused guilty as charged.  The trial judge’s direction was not a “slip of the tongue” to be evaluated in the context of the charge as a whole; nor is this a matter of assessing the impact of subtle language susceptible to different interpretations.  His purpose and words were clear.  In effect, the trial judge reduced the jury’s role to a ceremonial one: He ordered the conviction and left to the jury, as a matter of form but not of substance, its delivery in open court.

A kind of important point there. 

Attorneys are expected to argue for the law as it applies to the case, and the facts as presented. It's generally been seen as a violation of an attorney's oath (as an officer of the court) for one to ask a jury to ignore the law as it exists when considering their verdict.

Juries are perfectly free to ignore the law. That's the point. Talking about the "officer of the court" being paid to railroad people and ensure that the jury is ignorant of their rights, and flat out deceived about them... that's another matter.

And there's also a great deal of legal precedent that says that even though juries may choose to nullify, the courts are under no obligation to tell them they can - or - to allow an attorney on either side to so inform them. And that opinion goes back a number of years, and was the determination made in several different rulings on the subject of jury nullification.

Not to be snotty or anything, but I'm not sure whether you're trying to be deliberately beligerent or whether you just don't know that the judge in this case explicitly banned the defense from mentioning it (see below re: 1st amendment). (Are you just screwing with me for kicks? I can't say as I'd blame you -- it can be fun trolling sometimes, and I'm a good target. :) :P )

For a judge to forbid someone to defend themself is beyond unconscionable.

I really don't understand how you don't see this.

Just to be clear... the judge **threatened** the defense and explicitly forbade the defense from using jury nullification in their defense.


So while it may seem like a cool idea for juries to take the initiative and override a law they disagree with when reaching a verdict (and they legally can do just that under US law) it's a dangerous road to go down. Because if it becomes commonplace, the entire legal system goes out the door and you have a small-scale version of mob rule in effect. Which means it's not the law, or the facts in a case, but rather the jury selection that becomes the deciding factor in obtaining a judgement. Which is ripe for abuse by both the prosecution and the defence.

Any country with common law. Canada, Australia, etc.

And, uh, no. Not a bad road at all. ;)

Remember... the next box is the cartridge box... Best to avoid that. ;)

Jury nullification is not "setting murderers free". Jury nullification is a judgement against a law.

e.g. Tomorrow possessing ginger ale is made illegal, and the police show up to arrest me (I just bottled another batch earlier today). It goes to trial. The jury votes "not guilty" knowing damn well that I had ginger ale.

That's not a statement about me -- it's a statement that the law is wrong.

i.e. "He had ginger ale. So what? Stupid law. Not guilty of anything that should be punishable."

It is very different from cases like that fellow in Florida in the late 80s who killed his wife, but got off with the defense "justifiable homicide". Very big difference. The laws against murder weren't nullified there.

This (proscribing jury nullification as a defense) is a BLATANT violation of the first amendment to the US Constitution in limiting what someone can say.

There's no wiggle room here. None. Zero. Nadda. Zilch. Zippo. Done. That's all she wrote.

The US Constitution, as other national constitutions, is meant to limit or set forth the power of the government, and banning speech is not one of the powers granted to the US government. In fact, it is explicitly forbidden.

Laws that violate the constitution are not valid laws. We have a special word for them: "unconstitutional". :)

But, but, but, but...

No. Read the first amendment. ;)

But, but, but, but...

The first amendment. ;)

Jury nullification is NOT open for abuse like you make it out to be.

But, if you can explain just how a finding of "not guilty" can benefit the prosecution, well, I'll be damn impressed! ;D

As for the issue of jury selection... c'mon... Really?

The prosecution gets an UNLIMITED number of dismissals. The defense has a limited number. Jury selection is (INFINITELY) HEAVILY weighted in favour of the prosecution already, so trying to confuse the issue of jury nullification with jury selection just doesn't hold water. The prosecution already has an INFINITE advantage there. What more do they need? Infinity + 1? An infinite set of infinities? C'mon... We both know that Cantor's Theorem doesn't apply here. ;)

This case was a joke from the start.



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