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14226

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 23, 2011, 10:37 AM »

what we have now is more annoying since if the user does not insert the key, he gets a nag until he does, right?

Yes. What we have now essentially REQUIRES people to go get a (free) license key or they will be nagged to do so.  At that point they can download a 60 day license key from the site without signing up, or a 6 month license key (that turns permanent after 1 more visit) which turns off all "nags."

The new idea has a couple of key changes:

• First, no "free" license keys -- they won't be needed any more.  No programs would nag you to donate or visit our site to get a free license key.  All programs would work fully and never stop, and not nag on startup, etc.
• BUT, every 30 days, non-donors will see a COMBINATION "please consider donating" and "update check" dialog, which will guide them through performing an update check/download and at the same time ask them to consider donating (or let them click to cancel the update check).
• My thinking is that combining the reminder to consider donating with the update check could be a win-win, in that it's providing a function to the user and reminding them to consider donating at the time when it's least annoying and most likely to be something they are open to.  But i could be wrong.
• If they *manually* check for updates (or just install updates) more frequently than every 30 days, we could either skip the reminder message entirely, OR show it at those times, not sure which

14227

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 23, 2011, 10:01 AM »

Yeah i was suggesting that donors with a license key can choose exactly when to check for updates, automatically and/or manually.

And that non-donors would no longer need a license key, but would be REMINDED every so often (every 30 days) to "click here" to run an update check, with a "Please consider donating" message shown at that time.  Or reminded to consider donating if they manually invoke the update check.

At least that's one idea.

14228

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 23, 2011, 08:28 AM »

I don't think this is a good idea, especially for people who have lots of DC apps and are already a donor.

Quick clarification -- I meant to say that such messages would not be shown to donors who have put in a license key.

14229

Living Room / Re: The Lost Thing (Video)

« Last post by mouser on February 23, 2011, 08:26 AM »

Loved it.. very sweet 

Thank you for sharing it.

14230

Living Room / Re: Should I be concerned that my wife opened a Facebook account?

« Last post by mouser on February 23, 2011, 08:08 AM »

if she is half as outspoken as you, you have reason to worry  

14231

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 23, 2011, 08:08 AM »

Just continuing to think about how this new idea might work..

Let's just assume we no longer have any use for the free license keys that people now donate -- all of the software new and old, big and small, runs without needing any license key at all, and has no date at which it will start "nagging" you to get a new free license key or donate.

Instead..

If you haven't run an update check in the program since the last 30 days, it will pop up a box that suggests that you run an update check and that you consider donating. (If you have run an update check every 30 days or so, you will see no messages).

If an update is found, it will help you get the new version AND show a message at that time asking you to consider making a donation to continue to support the ongoing development of the program, and ask you to join in the discussion of feature requests, etc.

And perhaps we could add a message that would be displayed if there has not been an update in a long time, which was more of a "This program has not been updated in a long time but we hope you are making good use of it.. Would you consider making a donation and letting the author know you appreciate it and perhaps make a feature request for a new version?"

The idea being that all requests to donate are tied to update checking in an effort to make the messages more useful and not just nags, and also hope to catch the user when they are in a mindset to support the developer of the program.


One possible real downside to this is that it does violate a key idea of the article i wrote and have been talking about -- which is that it still makes it much easier and more convenient for people never to donate.. they might even view the reminders about update checking as a positive thing.  It may be that the main reason the free renewable license keys work is precisely because its easier to donate than it is to not donate and have to go get a free license key.  And any change which dosn't make it easier to donate than to not-donate will fail.

I suppose one way to solve that might be to make the update check involve something that makes the idea of donating more attractive.  For the larger apps that currently use license keys, we could simply say that update checking is only available for those who donate (though this would'nt work for programs that don't use license keys)..  That's an interesting idea.. Or we could have the update check /donation reminder message have a 30 second delay for non-donors -- which seems fair to me but could likely cause some frustration.

14232

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 23, 2011, 07:46 AM »

wow we are having a really interesting and productive discussion here, i'm loving it.  and i really like the cooperative spirit of the discussion, trying to figure out new ideas while remaining true to the idea of being good to the users while helping the site.  

Once a new version is out, users must either upgrade or donate or be bugged every month to get a new temporary license.

That's an unusual and intriguing idea -- my favorite kind!

I don't think you actually have to *force* them to upgrade but the point is still the same -- you could combine the REMINDER TO UPGRADE with the REMINDER TO CONSIDER DONATING.

By combining these two messages, it might make it much less of an annoyance, while still being a MORE EFFECTIVE request-to-donate (since it will come at a time when they are likely to notice our improvement of the program), which is basically a win-win situation.

Regular users who are pro-actively updating probably are already paying enough attention to us and are conscientious enough not to really need much reminding.. and i suppose you could always still show a quick "please consider donating" message when there is an available update..


This could be done with or without changing the free license key policy -- i.e. if we were feeling brave we could eliminate the need for anyone to get a free license key, and simply put this new idea of reminding people to consider donating during update checks or downloads, into effect instead.


So what are the downsides..  I guess the main downside is for programs that don't get updated very frequently.  Such programs are sometimes but not always less substantial than those that do, and this idea would seem to put those programs in an awkward situation where they aren't donated for much.

On the other hand there are a couple more advantages i can see to this..

One that I love is that, even authors who don't use the License Key system could put this reminder-to-consider-donating-TO-THEM into their update checker.  I could easily put it into the dcuhelper update checker tool that many of the Coding Snack authors use.  That might help these authors get more deserved direct donations.  I love that idea -- and it also would mean more donating and participating members on the site in general, since there are a ton of users of these programs that don't even realize where the programs came from.

Verrrrrrrrry interesting..

14233

Official Announcements / Re: March 2011 DonationCoder.com Fundraiser Celebration -- Pledges?

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 11:12 PM »

I have adapted a traditional card game to be played as a Cody-themed card game with a special deck of cards, and called it CodyCards.

In the game, Cody will try to steal your coins and you must bribe, defend, or attack him to convince him to steal from your opponents instead of you.

Donors will have a chance to win a custom deck of Cody Cards in the end-of-the-fundraiser drawing.  Value for this one-of-a-kind game has been estimated at between $0 and $1 million dollars.




Note: These cards were created with my Python Card Creation library, a small and simple set of functions to aid in rapid card game prototyping, that i hope to release soon.

14234

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 07:12 PM »

I'm always pimping the article I wrote about "micro-donations" and DC a couple of years ago, I hope you all forgive me for doing so.

The take home message from my standpoint is that all of the effort to let people make "micro" payments with low fees is addressing the wrong problem.  The real focus needs to be on getting EVERYONE set up to make reasonably small donations on a whim, without any risk or hassle.  The problem isn't the AMOUNT, the problem is the MENTAL WORK involved in donating.

The success of things like the App store, and Steam for playing games -- shows how immense the effort barrier is in stopping people from paying for things.  If you make it so people can click a button to buy something, without feeling like they are incurring any risk in doing so, and without having to go through any extra steps, they empty their pockets on things they don't even need.  While on the other end of the spectrum, if someone feels like it's going to take them more than 60 seconds to make a purchase, they won't pay a buck for the object of their dreams.

Part of what I say in that article is that to get donations, it should be as easy (or easier) to donate as it is to avoid donating.  Which is kind of how we have approached the license keys and why it's ok to say "if you have decided not to donate just write an email for a full license key", because i judge that it's as much mental effort to write an email as it is to donate.  The situation one wants to avoid is where doing the right thing (donating if you can afford it) is so much harder and more work than doing the wrong thing.

This is also why I'm starting to think the complexity of the process is hurting us.. because the mental effort required by people to even figure out how things work with the license keys is enough to turn many people away..

14235

General Software Discussion / Re: Does DoCo have a "How To" Section?

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 04:24 PM »

save it for the fundraiser month!

14236

General Software Discussion / Re: Does DoCo have a "How To" Section?

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 04:22 PM »

It's a good idea.. I think maybe we could stretch the "User Mini-reviews" forum section and standalone "Mini-Reviews" page to encompass such things -- I know we've stretched it for this purpose in the past.  If we had enough such entries we could rename the section to Mini-Review and HowTos..

14237

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 04:13 PM »

There is something else that DC needs to start doing, that we've talked about before, which is help the coders on the site find commercial work through the site, if that's something they are interested in.

Companies and people interested in having custom software developed do hang out at DC, and we need to make it easier for them to hook up with coders on the site that they might want to hire for custom work, that are interested in such things (I know I am).  DC can play a role here by providing clients with some assurance both about the quality of the coders, but by providing an informal support system -- a safety net -- so that coder and client alike know that they can get help and guidance if they need it.

Note that I'm not talking about any kind of paid service where DC would get a "cut" from any such work -- I'm just talking about a way that DC can give back to the coders who contribute to the site by helping them find paying work in addition to the free work that they do.

14238

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 04:08 PM »

easily resolved by offering several payment options, including PayPal, Google Checkout, Amazon (I think),

We do accept paypal, amazon, and a bunch of known trusted shareware payment providers, but the issue is not whether the payment methods are safe and fast (they are); the issue is simply that it's still too much work and too unfamiliar to people to make it something that people do unless they have a strong motivation to do so.

14239

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 01:50 PM »

Another possibility would be:

• 1. Click here to get a license key that will last until you upgrade the program to a new version
• 2. Or donate any amount to become a lifetime member and get a permanent license key.
• 3. If you are part of a non-profit organization, or are a freeware author, or have considered the ideas of the site and have decided that you will not be donating for whatever reason, send us an email describing why and we will send you a non-expiring license key.

The change here would be that instead of requiring a new license key every X days, you need a new license key when upgrading.  And no need to sign up for a key, you get one just by visiting the page.

This seems like it would be less annoying for most people.. the downside would be that it might lead to more irritating upgrades and people less likely to want to upgrade, and perhaps less donations.

14240

Official Announcements / Re: March 2011 DonationCoder.com Fundraiser Celebration -- Pledges?

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 12:45 PM »

There will be new badges for anyone who survives donates and/or contributes their time during a fundraiser. 

14241

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 12:04 PM »

worstje's point about nagware is important.. and it's hard to figure out a way to "remind" people to consider donating without becoming nagware.

timns said:

But can't pay even a dollar to help support the site?

i think this gets to what i've written about before -- i really don't think it's the donation amount that is the obstacle.. it's the amount of work involved to donate, and the fear of risking their financial information with some site they don't know about for such amount.

right now there is no easy way to solve that obstacle -- not until some of the big players make it effortless and worry free to make donations on the web.

14242

Living Room / Re: The Onion News Network - Funniest Satire Site on the Planet Lampoons the News

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 11:45 AM »

The tv show is not as funny as i had hoped -- i find the online shorts funnier.  But let's give them some time to get into their groove.  it still has some high points and is miles better than saturday night live and their other competition.

14243

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 11:43 AM »

but does the link on the application take people directly to the key page?

yes it does.  but that key page is confusing to people.

14244

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 11:42 AM »

We could make a 3rd bullet point which just makes official our semi-unofficial policy, which is:
3. If you are part of a non-profit organization, or are a freeware author, or have considered the ideas of the site and have decided that you will not be donating for whatever reason, send us an email describing why and we will send you a non-expiring license key.

14245

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 11:34 AM »

It's more of a gut feeling that things are just a little complex and confusing, and that this turns people away.

What about something like this:

Programs always run, always latest version, always full features enabled (just like now).
If you haven't put any license key in you will occasionally be reminded to click a link to get a license key (just like now).

However, the change will be to the license key page, similar to what jgpaiva proposed.  The simplified page will say:

• 1. Click here for a license key that will work for 60 days; come back any time to get another.
• 2. Or donate any amount to become a lifetime member and receive a permanent license key.

And remove all of the other rigmarole.

14246

Site/Forum Features / March 2011 DonationCoder.com Fundraiser Celebration -- Help Me Describe It

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 09:21 AM »

Ok so we've had a couple of threads discussing ideas for the fundraiser here:

• https://www.donation...ex.php?topic=25603.0
• https://www.donation...ex.php?topic=25719.0

But I guess the top priority in my mind is writing up a single description of the fundraiser that we can post on the homepage, send out as our special edition newsletter, and send to other friendly sites to tell their users about.

So here is my first attempt and maybe you guys can help me refine it, both in terms of what it says and how it says it.


March 2011 DonationCoder.com Fundraiser - Celebrating 6 Years Online

It's been two years since our last fundraiser and the time has come once again to solicit donations from our users to help fund the site.

At the last fundraiser we raised almost $14,000.  Given the state of the economy, our goal this year is a bit more modest -- we're hoping to raise at least $6,000 which will pay for a solid year of hosting and server management.

What we're doing to celebrate:

• Every day during March we will be releasing something new -- we will alternate between releasing new freeware applications and short software reviews.
• Throughout March we will focus on creating new utilities based on requests from new donors.
• At the end of the month we will hold a giveaway of donated prizes, open to everyone who has donated to the website; prizes will include both hardware, software, mystery boxes, and custom software development time.

What you can do to help:

• Become a first time donator to our site.  The single most important thing you can do is join the over 8,000 other people who have taken the leap from being bystanders to making a one-time donation to the site.
• Make a repeat donation.  If you have donated to the site in the past then you should know that it's because of people like you that the site has thrived and continued to remain ad-free and true to our principles; and it's people like you that have made it possible for us to keep devoting the time to the site that it deserves.  If you like what DonationCoder is about, we humbly ask you to make another donation to support our efforts.
• Let your friends know about us -- our site can be confusing at times, and we rely on word of mouth to let people know that we are worth supporting.
• Let us know what we can do to improve the site; we will make a special effort during the fundraiser to listen to those who have supported the site and try to take your suggestions to hear more than ever.

14247

Official Announcements / Re: March 2011 DonationCoder.com Fundraiser Celebration -- Pledges?

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 08:58 AM »

So i guess i mucked things up with this topic, not understanding what people meant by "pledges".. I don't know if this means we should start 2 new threads to clean things up, one for just people stating what they are willing to do to help out fundraiser, and one for people organizing some kind of pledge-to-donate-if-other-people-accomplish-some-goal "pledge" thing.

14248

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: Survey: What are the ingredients of your system/list/notes/reminders?

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 08:41 AM »

Since 2007 I have been using my own simple Index Card system, which I am quite happy with.

I have written about it here.

It was inspired by a few key ideas I got from GTD, while discarding most of the fine details and the complicated filing:

• Offload things from brain onto paper so you can stop trying to remember them.
• Avoid long lists, prefer short single-item entries.
• Use a label maker -- surprising benefit of having bold easy-to-read text made by a label maker vs handwritten.

Essentially the system is simply:

• Write ideas and things to do on 3x5 index cards, and file them into logical groups.  Each card has a date and group name written at the top of it.
• Keep a separate group for all recent additions so they can be examined easily and sorted later.
• Periodically review cards and dispose those that are no longer relevant.
• Use a label printer to print group heading cards.
• When starting work, pull out the cards you plan to work on and put them in front of you.

Key benefits:

• Super clean -- cards get discarded once completed; no half-crossed-off todo lists.
• Very good for people who benefit from spatial organization and working with physical objects -- you can always re-order, re-organize, and lay out on a table a set of tasks.  Each item is it's own physical entity (card).
• Very easy to pull out and focus on a few select items.
• Each card has a date when it was created; makes it easier to track age of items.

Weaknesses:

• Not computer based, so no easy way to search for items.  One of the ideas i've been tossing around for a long time is the possibility of making a software version of this that retains the benefits of the physical card system.

In addition to being useful for getting non-recurring things done, i find it extremely useful for recurring events like chores as well.

14249

Official Announcements / Re: March 2011 DonationCoder.com Fundraiser Celebration -- Pledges?

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 08:15 AM »

I am sorry if i threw hot water on the pledge idea that some people were really into.. I should make clear that I think the pledge idea is fun and have no objection to it on principle, I've just become sensitive to the idea that confusion and complexity are the main weaknesses of DC.  So I have been trying to be disciplined about not introducing any more than necessary..

14250

Site/Forum Features / Re: Revisiting the idea of simplifying the DC big app license key stuff

« Last post by mouser on February 22, 2011, 01:07 AM »

barney, i think the spirit of what you are saying is something that could be compatible with the site. That is, put some effort into making it easier for the coders on DC to be discovered and hired to do paid work by people who find them through DC.