topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • Tuesday December 16, 2025, 2:12 pm
  • Proudly celebrating 15+ years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Recent Posts

Pages: prev1 ... 444 445 446 447 448 [449] 450 451 452 453 454 ... 470next
11201
General Software Discussion / Re: Getting rid of windows shell
« Last post by 40hz on October 19, 2008, 10:55 PM »
Just out of curiosity, which do you think is much easier for desktop users to adapt to? Migrating to Linux or using a shell replacement?

Since I've discovered both, I've been conflicted on which one to start REALLY learning first.

Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Think of it this way:

A shell replacement is your present lover decked out in skimpy lingerie. Linux is a whole new lover.

(Bet you won't forget THAT analogy anytime soon! ;D)
11202
Another big problem is the requirement to use the terminal to do a lot of the program installations and any advanced settings that are required to get some programs up and running. It's not as simple as Windows where it is often a double-click on an icon that opens a wizard to guide you through installation in a graphical way. Also, I think that there are too many Linux distros out there and this harms it because now a user has to figure out if a Linux program will actually run on his system or if he has to compile it from the source code!
-VideoInPicture (October 19, 2008, 07:49 PM)

(40hz sighs and hauls his butt up on his soapbox once again.... ;D)

There are a lot of people, Linux users among them, that would agree that there are too many separate distributions. But a lot of the confusion comes from people thinking that each distribution represents a radically different flavor of Linux.

In actuality, despite the number of distributions, there are really only four major distributions: Slackware; Debian; RedHat; and SUSE. Virtually all the other distros use one of the four 'majors' as the base and build from there. In most cases, the only real differences are: what non-free software gets included; what local languages are supported; and what the preferred desktop manager is.

So in a nutshell, there's significantly less there than meets the eye.

masstux.gif

 8)

As far as compiling packages goes, most Linux users will never need to do that unless they are installing something so arcane or bleeding edge that distro-specific precompiled packages haven't yet been made. But with approximately 18-20,000 (and still growing!) packages available in each of the major distro repositories, it's getting a little difficult to find something the average (or even not so average) user would want that isn't already precompiled.

Furthermore, there are working conversion utilities that allow you to use the packages from one distro's repositories with a completely different distro (i.e. RPM to DEB, etc.). I've used such converted packages several times when I couldn't be bothered to wait for something to be included in my preferred distro's repository and I didn't feel like compiling it on my own. And to date, I never experienced a problem with doing so.

And compiling isn't really such a big deal. Compiling a Linux app is almost always done in four simple steps:

Step-1:Unpacking
Most packages come compressed when you download them. Unpacking a package in Linux is not very different from unzipping a file in Windows: you copy the file to a directory and unpack it. The ususal command to do that is called tar (from the archaic 'tape archive') and usually looks like this:

tar -xvzf package.tar.gz (sometimes the file extension is bz2 which is just a variant of .gz)

Step-2: Configure
Configuration is actually a bit of a misnomer. You aren't configuring something so much as you're checking your system to make sure all the system dependencies are in place before you start compiling. This is an important step because this process generates values for system dependent variables that are needed for something called a makefile. You don't need to know what that is just so long as you know that the configuration step has to be completed successfully before you actually compile you application.

All you need to do to make all this happen is change to the directory that you unpacked your package in:

cd/package

and run the supplied configuration script which is included as part of your package:

./configure

Usually it will execute without a problem. The only time you will normally get an error will be if the package is damaged (in which case you need to download it again) or you're missing a dependency which you can almost always install through your distro's normal package manager (i.e. APT, YUM, Synaptic, etc.). This is no different than what you run into in Windows when an application informs you that you need to install .NET Framework, a VisualBasic runtime, a Java runtime, or update a Windows component before it can be installed.

Step-3:Build the binary
Once ./configure exits without errors you actually compile your binary package. This is done with the make command:

make

Step-4: Install the app
Once make completes all that's left to do is install the binary t you just created. That's done with the make-install command:

make install

And that's it. You've just compiled your very own Linux package from source!

Here's a quick review. We'll use a fictional Linux application named w00t that ships as a tar.gz archive for this example:

# tar -xvzf w00t.tar.gz
# cd w00t
# ./configure
# make
# make install


That's it. Not so hard, right? Especially when you consider that you don't really need to know what any of that actually means so long as you follow the steps. And these four steps are the same for about 99.9% of what's out there. Do it once and you know how to do it for almost everything.

I think Linux could take a step forward by doing anyway with the terminal and simplifying the installation of some programs. I don't think any user short of a programmer should have to touch the terminal.

The Terminal (brass fanfare as the incense rises...) goes right to the heart of what Linux is all about. It's a philosophical as well as a technical issue for many people. Especially once they get some experience and discover just how powerful and useful a tool the command line is.

Much like touch-typing, the command line is a skill set that takes some effort to learn. But once you make that effort, there's just no going back.

I can't say much in response to your suggestion to do away with the command line other than to say not to hold your breath. You can take the command prompt away from many Linux users "when you can pry it from their cold dead fingers" to borrow from an old bumper sticker.

So spend a little time getting acquainted with the bash shell and your terminal app. And make a modest effort to learn how to use Vim, or some other basic editor. You'll be amazed how much power you've gained with nothing more invested than your time.

 8)
11203
General Software Discussion / Re: Kingsoft Office
« Last post by 40hz on October 19, 2008, 02:25 PM »
Kingsoft *looks* like such a complete rip-off of MS office 2003, I'm actually quite amazed they haven't been sued for completely copying the product.

Don't you think that's just a bit strong?
11204
General Software Discussion / Re: Getting rid of windows shell
« Last post by 40hz on October 19, 2008, 02:19 PM »
I don't really see how you could do it other than by replacing the command interpreter with something else: (ex: shell=\directory\command_interpreter_name.com)


You could look at Black Box for Windows (BB4W)
Link: http://www.bb4win.org/news.php

or its cousin Xoblite
Link: http://xoblite.net/

Doesn't get more minimal the BB4W. If you want something leaner you may need to consider writing your own.



11205
General Software Discussion / Re: 55 free online tools
« Last post by 40hz on October 18, 2008, 02:16 PM »
Small typo: it should be .html at the end, not .htm

So it's: http://www.emmaalvarez.com/2008/04/recommended-55-free-online-tools.html

Otherwise you get a 404 "Not found" error


Fixed it in my original post. Good catch. :Thmbsup:
11206
General Software Discussion / Re: 55 free online tools
« Last post by 40hz on October 18, 2008, 01:59 PM »
thanks city, i probably caused that problem when i added the picture to 40hz post in the process of blogging it.

Must be mind boggling to have that kind of power! ;D
11207
Living Room / Re: Rats! MS Auto Updates Got Me Again!
« Last post by 40hz on October 18, 2008, 01:49 PM »
Am I the only person who has NEVER had a problem with an update from MS?

Josh - please pick, at random, 6 numbers between 1 and 49 and PM them to me. I want some of your luck to rub off on me!  ;D

13-07-45-02-19-06

Can't say I ever had a 'problem' other than inadvertently saying ok to an IE7 install I didn't actually mean to allow.

Several of my clients did run into that ZoneAlarm issue however. I had a spate of calls about that one.

(P.S. I expect a 15% commission if you hit on those numbers. :lol:)
11208
Living Room / Re: Tech News Weekly: Edition 42
« Last post by 40hz on October 18, 2008, 01:37 PM »
Think you might need to seriously start considering a simplified CMS approach for Tech Newz. Publishing a weekly newsletter doesn't map out to the forum paradigm all that well. A blog engine would also be a good alternative, not to mention being a whole lot easier to set up. That could handle all the suggestions people are making without too much hassle.

Just a thought. :)
11209
General Software Discussion / 55 free online tools
« Last post by 40hz on October 18, 2008, 11:12 AM »
Spotted this link up on the Confessions of a Freeware Junkie website.

There are a couple of gems listed in Emma Alvarez's blog. Worth a look.

Recommended 55 Free Online Tools

Lately, the number of free online tools has grown enormously. Many of these tools are really original and useful.
These services help you to do tasks that you would never imagine doing in such an easy and quick way.
Sometimes, the same tools give you interesting ideas for your website, works... Ideas and concepts that can really increase your benefits.
Here you are a selection of the most remarkable 55 free online tools:
http://www.emmaalvar...ee-online-tools.html


Anybody have any other favorites - or possibly start a new thread on the subject to get them all in one place?



11210
Living Room / Re: Digital Music Purchases - Downloads or Ripped CD's?
« Last post by 40hz on October 18, 2008, 07:26 AM »
Guess so. I took it that he was saying that there is never a need to download a single track, which as I mentioned I sometimes do have such a need.

Also (as I publicly blush! :-[  ), I even happen to like some one-hit wonder songs!!   ;D  OK - not many, but once in a while...  :)

Thanks!

Jim

"Don't get me wrong," said Chrissy of The Pretenders.  And me too. There are a few great songs that that have only been released as singles. I have no trouble with downloading something like that if it's my only option.

And no need to for anyone blush. I like some "one-offs" myself. (Soupy Sales' cover of Pahkalafaka comes to mind for one.) :Thmbsup:

I just wish they'd collect them onto one CD in groups of 20 and sell that instead. They're already doing it with bands from the 60's and 70's. Let's keep that practice ongoing.

BTW: I liked the "weed out the bands" comment. Says in four words what it took me two paragraphs to ramble through. Thank you, Josh! ;D
11211
General Software Discussion / Re: problems with playing some FLV videos locally
« Last post by 40hz on October 17, 2008, 12:27 PM »
KMPlayer ( http://www.kmplayer....howthread.php?t=4094 ) seems to be able to handle just about anything I've ever thrown at it.

Skipping forward seems to be a general problem with certain FLV files; and doesn't seem to have anything to do with what player you use. Anybody know for sure why that problem sometimes occurs?
11212
Living Room / Re: Digital Music Purchases - Downloads or Ripped CD's?
« Last post by 40hz on October 17, 2008, 12:14 PM »
Buy and rip. (FLAC for home use and archive. MP3 for the road.)

I buy CDs. I have no respect for the talents of any musician or group that can't produce enough good material to make an $18-20 album purchase worthwhile. Anybody with a modicum of musical talent can write one good song. So play me three more just so I'll know it's not luck.

The downloadable single is what drives the market for all those "One Hit Wonders." People that got lucky with their one song - and then tried to make up for the rest with choreography and "a whole lotta cleavage." I've got nothing against "eye candy" - but I really want something to listen to more than anything else.

And because I don't pirate - ever - I absolutely refuse to tolerate DRM in any way, shape, or form.
(Go chase the people that are actually breaking the law and leave me and my music collection alone! >:()
11213
Living Room / Re: Nice website to impress clueless managers
« Last post by 40hz on October 17, 2008, 09:30 AM »
Thank heavens they weren't playing Harpoon Advanced Naval Warfare when the bigwigs showed up. If they were, somebody might have gotten confused enough to get on the phone and start a real war.

Harpoon.jpg
11214
Living Room / Re: Eggnog season is upon us!
« Last post by 40hz on October 16, 2008, 01:27 PM »
Good luck finding champagne in some of my old haunts, or Guinness in others, depending on which part of town :)
-cranioscopical (October 15, 2008, 03:53 PM)
a man of many worlds ;)

Indeed he is. (I've been kicked out of both at one time or another.) ;D

tomos: yes I did look at the hob-gob link. It is a terrific label! Reflects my attitude towards lager quite nicely, to wit: Lager's fine for when you're mowing a lawn on a hot summer day and iced tea would be a little too strong.

I have been told there are those who would disagree... ;)


11215
Living Room / Re: c-base - the amazing space station
« Last post by 40hz on October 16, 2008, 01:19 PM »
Am I the only one that's confused by this? ::)
11216
I don't know...

It's no harder for a person to become a "Linux  Guru" (whatever that is), than it is to become an expert in any other OS or application suite.

I wasn't a big fan  of Linux when it first came out. I had a ton of solid technical arguments as to why it wasn't really workable. But when I was being honest with myself, I realized that my real problem with Linux was that I felt threatened by it. I didn't want to have to learn a whole new OS. I was afraid my Windows credentials and work experience (both of which had cost me considerable time and capital to acquire) would suffer devaluation if Linux caught on. And even worse, to really learn Linux, I would have to become a novice again - a clueless newcomer. And that was a real problem because, quite frankly, I bathed in the glow of being The Guy people went to for answers instead of the other way around.

And then, there were all those horror stories from people that had "been there." Cautionary tales about ordinary people who innocently installed Linux only to discover that it set their computer on fire - or caused cancer in the family dog.

Scary stuff! Bad mojo, this penguin thing! :tellme:

But once I got past the angst (and my little ego trip), I discovered Linux was interesting, fun, and profitable to know. It was no harder to learn, or get good at, than anything else. And it was neither significantly better nor worse than any other family of software. It was just different.

And all the horror stories I was hearing turned out to be just that - stories. ;D

I personally find it rather interesting to hear how often Linux is criticized (usually by people that don't actually use it) for what can best be summarized as "Not Being Perfect." It's especially interesting when you consider most of the complaints are about problems with proprietary codecs and drivers (especially wifi), which are issues beyond any Linux developer's control. If Linux has compatibility issues with technology developed exclusively for Windows, it's because Linux is not Windows. (Ok Class, please repeat this three times: Linux is not Windows...) And to criticize it for that is no different than faulting a dog for not being a cat.

Well, the critics can rest easy. Linux isn't perfect. And nobody in the GNU/Linux camp that knows what they're talking about (including Richard Stallman, Linus Torvalds, et al) would claim otherwise. But that was part of the original plan anyway. GNU/Linux is easy to bash because its commitment to "openness" was designed to make GNU/Linux easy to bash. And to fix. And to improve.

Linux is a perpetual work-in-progress. So is almost everything else. The only difference is that the Linux world is completely up front about it. They embrace the unfinished. Some might even argue they revel in the fact it will never be "done." If you can live with that, then all's to the good.

But if you're the type that feels driven to hit your head against a wall when confronted by a vast selection of choices and options, then Linux is definitely not for you. And that's fine too. Just continue to use Windows or OSX or whatever works best for you. The Linux community wishes you well no matter what since personal choice is much what we're about.

hum.gif

And should you ever change your mind...well...you know where to find us. 8)
 :)
11217
Living Room / Re: Should Microsoft become an OEM (PC manufacturer)?
« Last post by 40hz on October 15, 2008, 11:38 AM »
40Hz :
Cloud computing? :-\

Perhaps marginally better than the fog we suffer with today.

Cloud is a mixed blessing. There are some real benefits, and a number of serious downsides to the cloud concept. Here's one good cautionary post:

http://www.guardian....oogleownsyouyourdata

I'll still hold out for the appliance concept. A "good enough" office productivity plug&run device that could replace all those energy wasting "administrative assistant" type office desktops that got installed anytime a company could locate three feet of free open horizontal surface. If nature abhors a vacuum, management hates open deskspace even more..

I just wished they bought a few less PCs - and maybe few more plants or fishtanks. ;)


11218
General Software Discussion / Re: Unofficial Windows-7 news site now up
« Last post by 40hz on October 15, 2008, 11:16 AM »
40hz that was a personal comment. It simply means that I'm happy that they did not change the name because of the domain names that I own ;) I did not rate the name in any way although I think that it will do better than Windows Vista or any other name like that.


Apologies if I offended. Especially since I greatly admire ghacks.net for its content and coverage, and recommend it to friends and business associates every chance I get.

Chalk it up to my misreading, coupled with the residual crabbiness of someone who is still in recovery from all the hype and blather (albeit not at ghacks - for which I thank you) that surrounded the iPhone.

On a more serious note: How much longer do you figure you have before Microsoft Legal sends you a letter telling you they've registered/trademarked Windows-7 and you'll have to call your domain something else?

Luck with that, and again my apologies if I offended you. :)



11219
Living Room / Re: Eggnog season is upon us!
« Last post by 40hz on October 15, 2008, 10:31 AM »
Funny, with all that (american) cider in New England, that they never got into producing the alcoholic variety.

Probably because nobody felt like waiting for apple season when all they wanted a good stiff drink. Hardening cider isn't very difficult. If you let it sit a bit under the right conditions it happens. Problem is (at least in my house) that a gallon of cider doesn't get to live long enough to harden. It's usually gone by the end of the same day I bring it home. ;D

If you do want hard cider, I've found Hard Core Crisp Hard Cider to be very good - although I'd prefer the carbonation to be a little softer before I gave it 5-stars.

we cant blame the Puritans

Yes we can! I blame them for everything>:(

"Consider how much better things would have been if the Plymouth Rock had landed on the Pilgrims."

hmm, Snakebite is Cider and Lager (as opposed to ale or porter/stout)

Anathema! Outrage! :eusa_naughty:
One does not put the word 'lager' in the same sentence with ale, porter, or stout. It is simply not done.

And Snakebite? Bah! An imposter!! Even its silly name gives it away!!!

If you're ever in New Hampshire, hie thee over to the Woodstock Inn Brewery on Main Street in North Woodstock and order yourself a round of their Autumn Ale Brew.
http://www.woodstock...brewery.com/home.php

Autumn_Brew_Logo.gif

The brewery offers reasonable prices, excellent food, and a great crowd. And there really is an inn there! Very handy come some fine fall evening when you've had a little too much Autumn Ale, or not enough privacy to get 'better acquainted' with that 'certain someone' you met in the crowd...

logo.jpg

(Disclaimer: 40hz is in no way associated with the Woodstock Inn although he has been known to offer up the occasional sacrificial libation in the hopes that he someday may. He has also always paid for whatever he drank in their brewpub out of his own pocket. So there!)

11220
Living Room / Re: Should Microsoft become an OEM (PC manufacturer)?
« Last post by 40hz on October 15, 2008, 10:13 AM »
If MS wants to get into hardware+os, like Apple then maybe they'll import linux into their box ;) (just kidding)...

How about going the other way and blow off the OS completely? Maybe 'open the kimono' so all their apps can just be run under Wine?  8) (just kidding...)  ;D
11221
General Software Discussion / Re: Third Party Check Disk replacement?
« Last post by 40hz on October 15, 2008, 10:03 AM »
You could try DiskFixer. It's part of the Avanquest Fix-it Utilities package. There is a trial version available for download at:

http://www.avanquest..._8_Professional.html

Might be worth a try.

Couple of other things:

1. Most times TrueCrypt gave me stones, it was because of some other app (usually an antivirus utility) was interfering. Try to boot Windows with a minimal set of startup apps and see if the problem goes away.

2. If you've been experimenting a lot, TrucCrypt sometimes seems to get confused. It might be looking (on startup) for a container that's either been corrupted or deleted. Try uninstalling TrueCrypt and get rid of any containers you may have created before reinstalling. I'd suggest using Revo Uninstaller. Run it under the 'Moderate" setting to be sure you also get any legacy configuration files that remain after the app itself gets uninstalled.

I had that happen to me when I first started using TrueCrypt. Somewhere along the line, while I was willy-nilly creating and deleting containers, and generally seeing what it could do, something glitched big time. Somehow, two of the containers wound up cross referencing each other and TrueCrypt locked up. Then I made the mistake of just deleting one of the containers, and the real fun began. What finally fixed it was a complete removal and clean reinstall of TrueCrypt. Fortunately this happened while I was playing with TrueCrypt. I would have been very annoyed if I had lost actual data.

luck :Thmbsup:
11222
General Software Discussion / Re: Unofficial Windows-7 news site now up
« Last post by 40hz on October 15, 2008, 09:28 AM »
I think I screwed up. Should this have been posted here instead?

https://www.donation...ex.php?topic=15107.0
11223
General Software Discussion / Unofficial Windows-7 news site now up
« Last post by 40hz on October 15, 2008, 06:26 AM »
From ghacks.net

Everton from Connected Internet and I are running a Windows 7 joint venture located at Windows 7 News dot com which is providing everyone with news about the upcoming Microsoft operating system. The announcement that Microsoft would keep the name was really exciting and motivated us to bring the news site to the next level.

http://www.ghacks.ne...windows-7-news-site/

Link to it here: http://windows7news.com/

Might be worth a read, although most of what currently passes for Windows-7 "news" on the web more accurately falls into the rumor mill category. This site should become more useful once Microsoft starts making real announcements.

Looks to be a professional offering, although ghack's comment "The announcement that Microsoft would keep the name was really exciting and motivated us to bring the news site to the next level." sounds a bit fanboy to my ears. If that's what's considered exciting news, please, please, pretty please, bring it to the next level!


(I must be getting grumpy in my dotage. ;D)

11224
Living Room / Re: which operating system you like most....
« Last post by 40hz on October 14, 2008, 08:58 PM »
An "object-oriented OS" doesn't necessarily meant it's implemented an OOP language, but probably more along the lines of being modularized, and modules being interconnectable/scriptable (kinda like I understand Apple have been trying to do on OSX with "that scripting language" that is "pretty widely supported"?).

Also, you don't need a language with syntactic sugar to do OOP programming - people are doing it in C and Assembly probably without even knowing (as soon as you're dealing with the win32 API, you're doing OO programming, whether you realize it or not :)).

I don't think of object-oriented design and modularization as being one and the same thing - although I could be wrong in my opinion. What you are describing sounds very much like something that has already been done. I'm referring to the concurrent development of the Modula-2 programming language and the Lilith Workstation back in 1978. These were actual working systems, not just some paper or wire-wrap prototypes. Here's a 1981 vintage unit in use. Looks a lot like another computer that came out in January of 1984 doesn't it?

Lilith01.jpg

From: A Brief History of Modula and Lilith
http://www.modulaware.com/mdlt52.htm

The need for a structured language with a module facility was less pronounced in the software community at large than in our immediate environment. An explanation of this requires some digression. The computing facilities available in 1977 were essentially large scale mainframes hosting sophisticated time-sharing systems, accessible only via terminals and remote satellites. The revolutionary concept of the powerful, personal workstation - the Alto computer developed at PARC - appeared to me like a revelation [4]. I was immediately convinced that there was no point in continuing development of software, except if based on and oriented towards this novel computing environment. However, such devices not being available on the market, there remained only one path to proceed, namely to design and build one on our own. Again, there was a recogized need and an idea of a solution. The project produced the workstation Lilith [5, 6].

There is no point in creating new hardware without new software. A basic operating system, utility programs, and first applications were to be developed concurrently, and therefore a programming language and its compiler were required as well. In fact, the primary incentive for designing Modula-2 was the need for a simple, allround language capable of expressing the whole range of programs needed to render Lilith into a powerful software development tool. The explicit goal was to use one and the same language for all Lilith software. Evidently, Modula and Lilith grew as a couple, and it would be futile to record the history of one without that of the other.
***
In December 1980, the first pilot series of 20 Liliths, manufactured in Utah under the supervision of R. Ohran, were delivered to ETH Zurich. Further software development proceeded with a more than a 20-fold hardware power at our disposal. A genuine personal workstation environment had successfully been established.



You can download the Lilith design spec (in PDF format) from here:
http://www.cfbsoftwa...les080813/Lilith.pdf

And the Modula-2 Handbook here:
http://www.cfbsoftwa...dula2%20Handbook.pdf

Modula-2 did not directly support object-oriented programming it was still possible to do it:

Although Modula does not support object-oriented programming, it at least makes it possible through the use of the type ADDRESS and the rule that an address value may be assigned to any pointer variable.

The Lilith Workstation and Modula-2 Programming language were succeeded by the Ceres workstation and the Oberon Programming Language. The Oberon OS is itself written in the Oberon programming language.


11225
Living Room / Re: which operating system you like most....
« Last post by 40hz on October 14, 2008, 06:27 PM »
The problem is now that nobody can or will make a decent modern OS.

Yes. Especially now that everybody knows exactly how to do that - and agrees on what constitutes such a "decent modern OS."

I don't think there's anything even close to universal consensus on that topic. ;)

The open source guys couldn't manage it if they tried because they're all sucking the Linux Penguin tit and ranting about how good it is.

Now there's an image I won't be getting out of my mind anytime soon. ;D Thanks, I guess... (yuck!)

A fully object oriented OS is what we need, and want, but the market just won't allow it now.

An OO OS would advance computing by leagues. But who's going to pay to develop it?


Didn't they try to do that already with Smalltalk- which was (arguably) a rather nice little operating system that most people mistook for a programming language? (Many loved it. Very few used it.) ;D

Objects are only one approach to dealing with programming complexity. They're not the only one. And while the object paradigm has proven useful, it has only resulted in improvements to our methodolgies for software development. It has not produced the world-changing, indisputable, all encompassing benefits that were originally claimed for it. It just turned out to be a better way of doing things. There is nothing in the object-oriented methodology that has conclusively proven it to be the best methodology for all classes of applications.

At least as far as I've seen.  ;)

Pages: prev1 ... 444 445 446 447 448 [449] 450 451 452 453 454 ... 470next