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10651

General Software Discussion / Re: Up to the NTFS file system 32767 characters limit...

« Last post by Renegade on May 16, 2007, 11:24 PM »

Sounds very cool. I'll have to check that out.  Thanks for posting it.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows

« Last post by Renegade on May 08, 2007, 10:44 AM »

Hmmm...

It's about time that I try out the newest latest and greatest from the Linux world. Last time I really tried it was pure Hell. (A few years ago I tried to get a box running with several distros - nothing worked right and I had LSODs (Linux Screen Of Death) every few minutes practically.)

I am still very far from convinced, but I'll give it a shot.

As to the comments in the thread there... Yikes. Sounded like a lot of gushing to me. TCO? That all depends on what you want to do. It is far cheaper to spend a few $1,000 on software that requires less maintenance than some other free version in some situations. There's no generally "true" TCO for Linux or Windows - that's pure BS. Web server? Windows 100%. File server? Linux 100%. Then there's everything inbetween. They do different things better.

More gushing BS:

Yes, but Linux will never be able to run all the great virus's and spy ware that my windows box can. Just look at all the great virus code that I can run on windows box for free, just by connecting my unprotected windows PC to the Internet. No downloading no updating, just automatically arrives.

Good sarcasm, but just silly. The top security expert all say that OSX is no more secure than Windows - and OSX is built on BSD, which is still a step above Linux with BSD having some of the genreally considered most secure distros. Security is about social engineering and stupid people that fall for it.

Time to check out if the hype is anywhere near reality... But only after I get back from the sun and sand in Thailand!   (I'm SOOOO looking forward to this vacation - first real one in 5 years.)

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General Software Discussion / Re: Software gone social? Wakoopa is quite clever

« Last post by Renegade on May 06, 2007, 05:04 PM »

I joined the team.  Too bad there's not a way to hide certain apps from being reported.

-cthorpe (May 06, 2007, 02:18 PM)

Got some specialized porn sofware running?

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General Software Discussion / Re: Software gone social?

« Last post by Renegade on May 03, 2007, 11:54 PM »

Maybe they'll offer a Linux installation someday. I'd love to know what people are using on that platform in order to find the better apps.

-zridling (May 03, 2007, 11:49 PM)

Finding good software for 'niche' purposes or smaller operating systems is tough work. They all get drowned the the big blood red ocean of Windows software. Filtering through the noise isn't all that easy.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Software gone social?

« Last post by Renegade on May 03, 2007, 07:51 PM »

Just you and me at the moment...

-Perry Mowbray (May 03, 2007, 07:34 PM)

The rest will join... Resistance is futile...

Nah - I don't expect a lot of people to join. It would be fun though. We'd actually get a REAL look at what we're all using and how much we use it.

Got to give these guys credit - it's a very cool idea for a site.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Software gone social?

« Last post by Renegade on May 03, 2007, 07:21 PM »

Do you think a DC Team would be interesting?

-Perry Mowbray (May 03, 2007, 05:47 PM)

Good idea! http://www.wakoopa.c.../teams/donationcoder

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General Software Discussion / Re: Software gone social?

« Last post by Renegade on May 03, 2007, 11:22 AM »

Who cares about tracking anyways? It's all done in aggregate anyways.

If anything, it helps you see where you spend your time. Sounds valuable to me.

10658

General Software Discussion / Re: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows Vista

« Last post by Renegade on May 03, 2007, 10:04 AM »

I'm all for open standards. It makes everyone's life easier all the way around... Well... Except for the monopolies.

The problem you mention with Don Lessau permeates the industry. Freeware really is a good thing a lot of the time, but it makes it difficult also for others to get into the industry and creates those barriers. That's not necessarily a bad thing because it also raises the bar for commercial alternatives as well giving end-users a higher level of quality too. But for those where they do offer a good product, freeware reduces the value making it difficult for those other good products to get to market or to stay in the market.

Let me be perfectly explicit there - Most users do not understand the difference between quality software and complete crap. A plethora of freeware crap lowers the overall value of the market. e.g. There are some VERY high quality MP3 players out there, but this is NOT a good market to be in because there are a TONNE of crap players as well and everyone has been forced to give things away for free. The same sort of thing happens in other markets.

The flip side of the coin is that the really good stuff that competes with crap needs to have a higher price point, which drives prices up and up. Want some really solid web analysis software with decent licensing conditions? Great. That'll be $14,000 or so. (I am not joking.) This is NOT good for consumers.

There are a lot of very good programs that have died a "freeware death".  A few months ago NDoc (the .NET documentation thing) died, and it was freeware. The interest level from the original developer dried up. Were there a financial incentive for him, it may well still be with us. This is a real shame when good software dies.

This is one of the reasons that I often prefer commercial software - there is a financial incentive, and I'm more likely to get support on an ongoing basis. This offers me some degree of protection when I come to rely on a piece of software. It's VERY expensive to switch from some software. (Been there - been burned very badly - not happy with it.)

As for competition, it's a very good thing to have, but it also can kill certain market segments inadvertently. There are many spaces that are essentially dead because of neighboring markets being over-saturated. We'll never see any more innovation in those sectors unless the already dominant players make a move, e.g. Apple with iTunes becoming a store front instead of an MP3 player (whoopie!).

Personally, I'm hoping that the CLS (CLR & .NET) really have an impact in the Linux world because at the moment, the CLS is the only really good cross-platform spec. Java is almost laughable at this point. C? Too hard. C++? Too many issues. Delphi/Kylix? Abandoned. RealBasic? Interesting, but doesn't have the community that .NET or other languages have. The CLRs aren't quite there yet (i.e. Mono), but they're getting there. When it finally arrives, we'll be able to create true cross platform solutions that don't suck the lifeblood out of the developer trying to support more than 1 OS.

In the immortal words of Jello Biafra and the Dead Kennedys, "Give me convenience or give me death!" (I'm such a sell-out.)

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General Software Discussion / Re: Software gone social?

« Last post by Renegade on May 03, 2007, 09:50 AM »

I rather liked that one! Installed & using it right now.

I'm not too fond of the social stuff, but this one seems pretty cool. It requires little effort on my part.

10660

General Software Discussion / Re: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows Vista

« Last post by Renegade on May 02, 2007, 11:04 AM »

...All new software for me must have Linux versions now or I won't purchase it from this point forward...

-zridling (May 02, 2007, 08:19 AM)

This is where I think that you're going to get screwed. There are very few commercial developers willing to invest in Linux versions.

(I'll spare the commercial vs. free rant for the time being.)

When Linux gets a better adoption rate, then the commercial guys will follow. But for now, that's not happening. It's only a select few using *nix. Well, OSX is *nix but that's BSD. And even then, it's hard to get a lot of people to develop OSX versions of software.

The problem comes down to the economics. (Ooooo... Evil! Putting food on the table, clothes on the back, and perhaps a few bucks in the pocket... Scary!)

While some things can be done for free easily, or free by someone with the time (at the moment), the FOSS thing just isn't sustainable for forward looking applications. That's always commercial and always has been. There are no FOSS applications out there that approach their commercial versions. (Don't mention Apache - there's iPlanet out there which blows it away.)

What we really need is a fundamental change in mentality. Free is great sometimes, but other times we need commercial software. They are just different circumstances. One isn't better than the other (in general), but they need to co-exist. The FOSS community has been extremely hostile to the commercial sector, and that needs to at least be curtailed or moderated.

If FOSS becomes the dominant model, innovation will stop. Or be severely slowed.

I would LOVE to be able to develop for Linux and OSX, but at the moment, that's just not possible. I wish it were. But the bread and butter is with Windows for end-user applications.

I know that I'm not going to be popular for this here. I'm going to get some flak for it. It's not my fault. That's just how things are. It's the reality of the world that we live in. I'm not trying to say how things should be. I'm only trying to describe how things really *are*. 

For me, I make my living off of *free* software. I'm all in favor of things being free as much as possible. But at the end of the day, someone needs to pay the rent, the electricity, pay for the food on the table. Software takes real work, and saying that it needs to be free is offensive.

Sure - there are some good things there, but...

I don't mean to go off on you Zaine. But there has been a very wrong under-current here about FOSS that I just can't ignore. Somebody here needs to be the bastard that points out the reality of the situation. I just suppose that the bastard is me for the time being...

10661

General Software Discussion / Re: how to extract links from a site?

« Last post by Renegade on May 02, 2007, 10:42 AM »

I've found Teleport Pro to be very valuable. You'll have a hard time finding something that can automatically surf all your porn for you!

Edit: Yep - I know what you're using it for Zaine!

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General Software Discussion / Re: RANT: High Software Prices!

« Last post by Renegade on May 02, 2007, 10:09 AM »

Open Source/FOSS people are dangerous idiots.

Hahahahaaha~!

Then there's the gorilla with tits!

Zaine! You're killing me!

But as far as open source is concerned, MS has joined the open standards camp, and that's where they are fighting a winning war. They can do standards better than the FOSS community and are proving it. Things like MONO are proving this. The CLR was a BRILLIANT move by MS.

They're attacking again with open standards for MS Office as well. Open standards are a very good thing, and MS knows where things are going. They're fighting back in a very serious way. I certainly am glad that they are doing so, but the reality of the situation is that they are creating standards that are difficult for anyone to meet unless they are very organized.

We'll see how it all plays out though.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Microsoft's Silverlight

« Last post by Renegade on May 02, 2007, 07:12 AM »

Excellent show on DotNetRocks with Brad Abrams about Silverlight.

10664

General Software Discussion / Re: RANT: High Software Prices!

« Last post by Renegade on May 02, 2007, 07:10 AM »

One of the problems that's been echoed so many times in this thread is about "money" and "evil". For as long as money and making more at any cost (the greedy capitalist thing) is merely viewed as evil or hold some kind of fascination, it will continue. The change that is needed is for people to view that greed not as merely "bad", but as much worse - as vulgar. Then it will no longer be fashionable to charge more simply because you can.

10665

General Software Discussion / Re: how to extract links from a site?

« Last post by Renegade on May 02, 2007, 07:06 AM »

If you feel like playing around, you can try this web robot in VB.NET or C#.

You'd be surprised just how many really cool things are available for free at the CodeProject.

(OK - They take some work, but the basics are there.)

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General Software Discussion / Re: To Vista or not to Vista that is the ?

« Last post by Renegade on May 02, 2007, 06:43 AM »

For now, I'd say that you'd have to be nuts to blindly buy and install Vista on an older system simply because it's still an MS OS and they do get heavier. Vista is one that you get with a new PC or buy a new PC for (or if you've got some good recent hardware, then that's fine as well).

As for Aero, I rather like it.

You (OP) mentioned older software in your blog - the thing that I'd worry about people doing is installing older low level utilities (e.g. disk utilities, etc.) that aren't designed for Vista. That's a potential recipe for disaster.

For most people, I'd say wait until you need a new PC. For those of us that suffer from gear lust... Go to town!

10667

General Software Discussion / Re: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows Vista

« Last post by Renegade on May 01, 2007, 03:33 PM »

I am turned off by the Apple mentality

There is a good deal of zealotry in different "OS Camps", and it really is annoying. "Macs never get viruses..." etc. etc. Most of it is rarely true. Especially now with Vista as MS has addressed a lot of issues (I only mention that because MS seems the be the one that people like to beat up on).

Different OSes have different strengths and weaknesses. The Windows weakness is the number of users that it has - enough to attract virus writers for profit. That's a major problem.

I think you've got the right attitude there Carl -

don't offer anything that is compelling enough to make me switch from XP for my day o day computing tasks

If what you have works for what you need, then that's good enough.

"Better is the enemy of good."

10668

General Software Discussion / Re: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows Vista

« Last post by Renegade on April 28, 2007, 08:38 PM »

You will have absolutely no luck trying to convince me that those are illegal just because they aren't released under a GPL license.

I was exaggerating. Yes. There is non-GPL software that runs legally.

But really? PHP, Java and Apache? Those are basically server applications and not really end user applications for the desktop.

You argue that by being ready for prime time, the OS has to be ready for absolutely everyone.

No. I'm arguing that the software support for Ubuntu isn't ready for Prime Time.

Well guess what, neither Windows nor OSX is ready for absolutely everyone so by your standards there is no OS in existense today that is [ready for prime time].

No. I'm arguing that "Prime Time" is mass market, not "everyone". However, there is little difference. For those people that fall outside, they are simply in niche markets, e.g. POS software, fluid dynamics, etc. Those applicatons often still run on the OSes that we're talking about, but sometime on others, e.g. Cray's OS for scientific & engineering applications.

If you instead argued that Windows is the best fit for more people that Linux currently is then yes, I would agree.

Not just more, but massively more people.

@gjehle - You *can* sell GPL software for profit. While it isn't popular, it is done. Search eBay for audio editors and you'll see Audacity being sold there.

Here's a quick one? When was the last time that anyone ran World of Warcraft or Grand Theft Auto on Ubuntu? The gamers drive a lot of the computing industry, e.g. Hardware production, etc. Again, Ubuntu is lacking software options and is pretty much out of the market for games. OSX has a enough time there.

10669

General Software Discussion / Re: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows Vista

« Last post by Renegade on April 28, 2007, 11:56 AM »

Claiming that Linux is not ready for prime time in general is insanity, because it is all a matter of how you use your computer. It's not ready for everyone sure, but for many others it really is and have been for some time. Oh and regarding your claims that the GPL somehow prevents developers from creating commercial software for the platform, well my Linux version of Zend Studio would seem to indicate otherwise.

-Dirhael (April 28, 2007, 11:06 AM)

Ok - I know that I'm not going to be popular for this, but the GPL is VIRAL and it infects everything it touches. Linux is GPL and so is 99.99% of all the software for it. The rest is guilty of license infringement. There's just no way around that with a conserviative reading of the GPL. Period. There is no debate here. Read the GPL.

The GPL has hereto been a bastion of patent infringement. That won't go unnoticed.

Now let's get real. You admit that it is ready for everyone. But "everyone" is "Prime Time". I'm very far from insane in this. And you'll see that as the next few years prove me right. Ubuntu will not win people over. This is not a technology thing at all. It's a business things, and Ubuntu is losing. I'm not advocating any technology - merely stating facts.

The FSF is ruled by a bunch of radicals. And yes. Your proprietary software running on Ubuntu is illegal. Read the GPL again.

While Unbuntu may make sense for a small number of people, it's just not sane for most as you cannot develop software for a GPL'd platform commercially. It's just too hard.

The GPL advocates are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Read the GPL.

This is not about technology - it's about business and philosophy. Ubuntu loses. Windows wins. Windows has people behind it for money. Linux has nothing that's reliable. (In the grand scheme.)

This debate should be open and shut.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows Vista

« Last post by Renegade on April 28, 2007, 10:56 AM »

Renegade, you make the classic — and most persuasive — argument in favor of Windows. I've said (and I keep a log) of the very few Windows programs left that's keeping me from going Linux 24/7. ...

-zridling (April 28, 2007, 10:19 AM)

OK - here's the killer...

The platform isn't important. The number of developers is important.

More people developing for your platform means more people buy it. Platforms are all about compatibility and offerings. This is where MS really shines. And they shine with commercial reasons. That's not an opinion (as some people suggest) but it's a matter of fact. Those of us that have been around for a few years know this already.

I am NOT arguing about Windows vs. Ubuntu here. I am arguing that Ubuntu is not "Prime Time" ready because of software support. This isn't really something that's debatable. I'll let Google be my witness there.

While Ubuntu may be ready, the software support isn't there. That's the deal killer.

Personally, I wish that BSD was Prime Time ready. It's not. That's life. We work with what we have. :S

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General Software Discussion / Re: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows Vista

« Last post by Renegade on April 28, 2007, 10:37 AM »

Gothi[c],

The thing with the "years ago" thing is that years ago, there was no choice. Today there is. And it is all much easier now. For the thing with the "10 year olds", they aren't the purchasers. It's the dad (or mome) that makes the purchase there. Yeah - when I was 10 years old I guided my parents decisions in the computer sector because they knew nothing about computers then. It's a different world now. People my age are the parents now. Back when I was 10 years old, DOS wasn't a problem for me because I was 10 and I had lots of time to learn new things. My parents didn't have that time available. It's those people that we as software and IT professionals need to target - the people with the buying power that are very busy and don't have time to play around with this, that and the other thing. They just need to get a task done. They want to print their family photos, burn a DVD with a family video, blah blah blah. Things need to be easy to do for those people - the ones with the purchasing power.

Yes - I know - I'm skewing the direction towards commercial interests. But these are the interests that propel IT forward. Everything that has ever been done in OSS or FOSS has been done in commercial software first. (OK - maybe there's an exception somewhere, but not many.)

I remember the switch to Windows 95, and I thought that I was being raped of real power with DOS being a second class citizen there. I already had my PC set up to behave as much like UNIX as possible. I was just used to the UNIX way and liked it. (@gjehle - I'm far from a UNIX hater - I rely on UNIX daily.)

The thing is that clicking a button with a label is far easier for most people than typing some obscure command. We live in a world where people are lazy and expect instantaneous gratification. The command line just doesn't fit there. McDonalds is fast food that people love and buy. We need to make our software somewhat like that. (Please don't anyone go off on McDonalds sucks - yes - the food isn't the best, but it is fast.)

With many software packages for UNIX based systems (BTW - Windows NT systems [2000/2003/XP] are UNIX because they are POSIX compliant - I use UNIX in the common manner of "not Windows" though) we still encounter the core problem of the "DLL Hell" that used to plauge Windows (for non-.NET developers).

For the list of requirements, this is real problem whether or not the system takes care of it or not. That's a HUGE list for LiVes. For most people this is just scary.

When it comes to marketing power, OSS or FOSS rarely wins. They just don't have the people with the expertise to promote their products (usually). Those things cost money. People need to eat, have a place to live, have something to work for. Free just doesn't cut it. Most software is written on a 1-off basis for companies and nobody will ever see it outside the company. Firefox and the like are NOT the norm. They are the exception.

As technology progresses, the commercial applications become OSS/FOSS at some point, but they don't start there.

e.g. What do we have in the search sector? Lucene? Maybe a couple others. Search is still the domain of the commercial interests.

I'm not trying to come off as a Microsoft fan-boy here. I really don't care too much one way or the other. I make my living off of software and I also supplement my living with software. The platform isn't really all that important to me. What is important is that at the end of the day I pay the bills, have some money to spend, and some money to save. Pretty boring, isn't it?

The thing here is that Unbuntu isn't "Prime Time" for anyone (developers) in the commercial sector. We are the ones that write the software that people really use first.

For all it's worth, I'm a believer in BSD. That stuff is just plain solid. But it has a place and a purpose. That place isn't on the desktop, unless its OSX.

@gjehle

don't want it? don't use it.
nobody's forcing anybody.
but if you really prefer to be a hater, get some better arguments going.

You need to go back and read again. I'm very far from hating UNIX. I wish that I had some of the UNIX stuff on Windows.

It's not about "forcing", but more about making things easy for people. The UNIX world is still very much in the "just learn it" phase. That doesn't work for most people. Ubuntu may be God's gift to the planet, but if it's not easy people won't use it. I'm not being prescriptive. I'm being descriptive. If you really want to push this point... The number of people that use the software that I'm pushing is in the hundreds of millions (that's 100,000,000's). How many users do you have? I probably know a little bit about this or I'd be fired.

don't try to be a hater and brag about how much better your preference is over someone else's.

I'm not bragging about anything. Where did you read that? I'm pointing out that the software choices for Ubuntu are very sparse. They just aren't "Prime Time" yet. Windows and OSX are "Prime Time" right now.

If we really want to be complete jackasses about things and get down to brass tacks, then...

You want a server:

• Use BSD for DNS (and a few other things)
• Use Soliaris for anything else
• Use Linux for stuff that doesn't matter much
• Use Windows for development speed

You want a desktop:

• Use Windows
• Use OSX
• Use BSD
• Use some Linux distro

That's it. There really isn't much more. Nobody runs DNS off of Linux. Nobody runs DNS off of Windows. (When it matters.) BSD is far superior to any Linux distro there.  But for the desktop, which is the topic of discussion, Ubuntu just doesn't have the developer support that Windows does. That's just a fact. Not an opinion.

It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact. BSD rules in some areas. Windows rules in developer support. Different OSes have different strengths.

Windows just happens to offer users more choices right now, and when the FSF gets a clue, maybe we'll be able to have a "GPL" that will allow developers to create software for Linux. Until then, Linux will remain a niche. Linux needs developer support on more than just a basic level. It needs real software that people can use commercially. Most offerings on Linux don't approach their commercial alternatives. That's where the GPL completely screws itself. The LGPL is much better and tolerable. (Ummm... Why is OSX based off of BSD???)

get a life. honestly.

Ummm... No comment. Read the above.

I'm going back to my beer now. (Not that I ever left... God... typing at this point is a real chore!~)

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General Software Discussion / Re: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows Vista

« Last post by Renegade on April 27, 2007, 10:14 PM »

We're lazy. We all want nice GUIs that make our life easier. It's never about the software - it's always about getting a task done with the software.

I'm lazy, which is why I use commandline software. It lets me do multiple tasks with one command or keybinding that would take several mouseclicks, windows and dialogs in a GUI. It's all about what you're used to, one is not inferior to the other, there's no need to start bashing one or the other.

-Gothi[c] (April 27, 2007, 09:17 PM)

Fair enough. But I don't mean to bash one or the other. What I should have said is that for the "normal user" the command line thing is very difficult. I use the command line for some things, but trying to explain how to do those to my technically challeged sister? Yikes. She can manage it... Given enough time...

The thing about the GUI is that while it still may take longer to perform some tasks, it leaves less questions in the user's mind. "C:\" or "$:" is very intimidating. The learning curve, and the fear of the learning curve is the problem. Sure - anyone can learn to use gcc, and it's a very powerful tool, but ask your mother to do that kind of thing.

Getting things done for most people shouldn't really involve the learning curve that a lot of software requires - to be fair that applies to both command line and GUI - but there is less pressure with a GUI.

For OO and being a development platform, documentation is just soooo important. I don't know if I would call javascript something that's really feasible for real development though. At some point it's going to break because it's just far too slow. (Likewise, VBScript isn't very good either.) MS Office is very mature and very well proven (despite my general lothing of it).

Again, for software, the requirements for LiVes:

    *  mplayer 0.90rc1+ compiled with jpeg/png support (version 1.0pre8+ recommended)
    * ImageMagick 5+
    * perl 5+
    * gtk+ 2.8+
    * libjpeg62
    * gdk-pixbuf-loaders
    * sox
    * python 2.3.4+ (recommended)
    * SDL (recommended)
    * mencoder 1.0-pre5+ (recommended)
    * libmjpeg-tools (recommended)
    * libtheora (recommended)
    * libjack/jackit (recommended)
    * xmms (optional)
    * cdda2wav (optional)

Wow. Tell me that's not going to scare the Hell out of people! "libtheora"? "sox"? Ummm... English please? For 99% of people this kind of stuff is simply terrifying and essentially renders the software unusable. The next part:

For compilation from source, you will need:

Is even scarier for people that aren't developers or extremely tech-savvy.

Whether or not LiVes (and the others) live up to the kind of quality required to replace something like Liquid, well, I don't know, but I'd be surprised if it did. There are very good reasons why commercial NLEs cost upwards of $10,000 or $25,000.

I don't mean to trivialize the value in LiVes or other software like it. In fact, LiVes actually looks pretty similar to Liquid.

Even if it does live up to quality requiremetns, the problem here is that for professionals, it's too technical to get running and there's very little incentive to switch from another platform that they already know. For regular users, again, the requirements to get up and running are still massive.

Taking another look at requirements, there are the potential problems of "DLL Hell" and other applications breaking. This problem is solved with .NET, but we still have yet to see much in the Mono community for projects like this (relatively speaking).

It's pretty hard to claim that Ubuntu and *nix are ready for the mass market. While it may work well for those that are already over the learning curve, the masses simply won't tolerate that. Can anyone say "Mac" or "iPod"? They're easy and get things done for people.

Hopefully we'll see improvements to user-friendliness and the like so that it truly has mass market appeal, but until then, all the Ubuntu hype will remain just that. Hype.

I don't mean to be adversarial here. I'm just trying to point out that the (mass) market hasn't and won't accept the current offerings. The people here in this forum are very far from being representative of the mass market. There are far too many developers and extremely tech-savvy people here. We are not representative of the norm here by any means.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows Vista

« Last post by Renegade on April 27, 2007, 08:47 PM »

Yes - there is desktop software for *nix, but there are far too many critical applications that I need that simply won't run on anything but Windows. *nix just isn't a viable alternative at the moment.

Usually because that's because people don't know what the equivalents are under linux. Or they expect the same behavior out of software that is designed from a different philosophy.

-Gothi[c] (April 27, 2007, 08:25 PM)

There was some high-end multimedia stuff for IRIX (?) a while back, but SGI went under.

Here I just don't see how Open Office is a real replacement for Microsoft Office. OO is an office suite. MS Office is an office suite and development platform. There's no comparison.

Jahshaka is still very far from being a real replacement for a commercial video editor like Liquid.

There is nothing for any Linux platform that compares to ProTools.

As for philosophy, not sure what you mean there. There are a lot of powerful command line tools for *nix, but let's face it. We're lazy. We all want nice GUIs that make our life easier. It's never about the software - it's always about getting a task done with the software. There are more friendly apps now for *nix, but there's still a "software" mentality that seems to go with a lot of it instead of the "let's get stuff done" mentality that is exemplified by the Mac.

Legally, you can't use proprietary hardware drivers on Linux because of the GPL.

Wrong. There are plenty of proprietary hardware drivers for linux, and they are all legal. They are not allowed to be statically compiled into the kernel and distributed that way, but they are allowed as kernel modules (think dll's in windows, same thing.). The very reason commercial developers hold back on developing linux drivers or software is because of misinformation like this.

There are a couple interpretations of the GPL. You're using the very liberal one. I don't think that's a safe bet when you're developing commercial software. I don't know of a single developer that's willing to gamble there. Pretty much everyone I know that develops commercial software sides with the more conservative interpretation of the GPL.

I'm not spreading misinformation; I'm simply being conservative in my interpretation of the GPL, which is the norm for commercial developers.

Again, the best source for GPL information is the FSF. But even then, there are 'factions' with different interpretations. The recent food-fight over the GPL v3 shows that. (The GPL v3 was at times/places viral to hardware even.)

The GPL presents real problems that you just don't have with other licenses. The ambiguity in it only exacerbates those problems.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Don't call it "the tray"!

« Last post by Renegade on April 27, 2007, 08:02 PM »

As yet another example, the origin of the word "f**k" comes from a word meaning "to thrust", as in to thrust with a sword. (Old Anglo-Saxon)

-Renegade (April 25, 2007, 05:11 PM)

here is another source that traces the origin via a Scandinavian derivation of "focka" meaning to copulate..

-lanux128 (April 26, 2007, 09:05 PM)

One of the most common probably derives from the same root as the Norwegian word fukka and the Swedish focka (to copulate), and was first recorded in the early 16th century.

That helps put things in perspective historically and it's easier to see how the original "to thrust / to stab" evolved into "focka/fukka" with that meaning, and then to our modern sense of it now.

And who said linguistics or history was boring?

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General Software Discussion / Re: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows Vista

« Last post by Renegade on April 27, 2007, 07:54 PM »

As far as I'm concerned, the show stopper is software for the platform.

Almost nobody writes desktop software for Linux because the Linux crowd all too often expects things for free.

Yes - there is desktop software for *nix, but there are far too many critical applications that I need that simply won't run on anything but Windows. *nix just isn't a viable alternative at the moment.

The article isn't very realistic in some areas. e.g. "The Winner: Ubuntu, because it comes with OpenOffice -- although that can be added to Windows easily enough." This is a reason? The author also complains about WordPad not being updated in years (also about GIMP vs. Paint elsewhere in the article). He's missing the point. Microsoft doesn't create highly functional software for distribution with Windows because it's making room for other software authors to develop for their platform. This is why Microsoft is so successful. They've made Windows friendly to software authors who write software for their platform and make it more attractive. 

Ubuntu (or other *nix platforms) need widespread adoption and better licensing before they can become a really viable alternative to Windows. It's got nothing to do with the technology - it's purely a business consideration. And these are always the most difficult problems to solve. The technology problems are much easier.

For example, the GPL is a show stopper for Linux. Legally, you can't use proprietary hardware drivers on Linux because of the GPL. This is an area where the Linux crowd want to have its cake and eat it too. The GPL is viral, and including those drivers violates the license agreement. The GPL is very good at keeping things free, but it's too aggressive for commercial developers.

Again, the problem here comes down to the motivation for commercial developers willingness to develop for *nix and the consequently poor amount of software available for *nix as well as the lack of high end applications available for *nix. There are very few highly functional software packages on *nix compared to OSX or Windows. (OSX doesn't have the problem of license violations because it's BSD, which is friendly to commercial developers.)

This point is not negotiable and there is no viable counter argument. There are a few good software packages for *nix, e.g. Open Office, Audacity, Jahshaka, The GIMP, etc., but none of them approaches the number or quality of their commercial competitors on OSX or Windows. Just take Audacity for example, and then list a tiny fraction of the applications available on OSX/Windows: ProTools, Samplitude, SAW Studio, Sound Forge, ACID, Gold Wave, the 50 trillion "me too" programs...

Ubuntu would be much more attractive with a BSD license. But that won't happen. Again, the problem isn't the technology, is the business decisions, which are purely human, and as humans, we have a solid proven track record of killing ourselves and other insanities that seem to indicate a deeper problem.