topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • Monday April 29, 2024, 1:03 am
  • Proudly celebrating 15+ years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Dormouse [ switch to compact view ]

Pages: prev1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 ... 78next
176
If you can convince yourself that it doesn't matter, then by all means you an use any browser-based tool for writing... I can't :)

Most of the time, it doesn't matter much to me. I don't need to read as I type (can be distracting) and the latency in my own mind about what words to type would usually be much greater. Most of the time.

But my typical workflow appears to be changing too - for a variety of reasons. Instead of typing into the ultimate target, I'm typing into what I call a writing pad, and then copy/pasting into the target programs. It's something I've often done, because, depending on what I'm doing, I can be quite fussy about my writing environment. I can write in anything but sometimes that interrupts the flow. So, with this, typing lag would be irrelevant, as I wouldn't be writing in it directly.

177
Zim is written mostly by one dev, Jaap, who is really amazing and dedicated, but has a fulltime job and does zim on his spare time!

I'm not sure that's a disadvantage long-term.
In my experience, the smoothest, most productive programs have been produced by one developer in their spare time, and developed and refined over a very long period. Abstractspoon's ToDoList, The Journal, WriteMonkey. The key being the very long steady development by a developer who uses the program themselves and has a clear vision about its purpose.

It's only when reaching 1000s of notes in zim that I'm starting to value more the advantages of a dynamic graph... with many notes I would love to link them graphically.

I have found one potential problem in zim. Graph view is a second class citizen. It's static (can't filter, search, group etc), it's slow to render (>10s for large graphs), and the lead dev doesn't have plans to make  it better.

The downside is that your needs have to align with those of the developer.

178
Funny that there are people selling products in the 1000s of $ to teach you how to organize your notes.
Stunning. Happened with Roam as well, not sure about other apps though one poster from Obsidian seemed to have a least a bit of a go at a Logseq market.

What disturbs me about it, is who has that sort of money to spare for a course about taking notes? The Obsidian community is largely students, and they do have a tendency to watch videos, which is how they reached Obsidian in the first place, or ask for them when they don't understand something. I know there are rich students, but even so.

To be fair, Nick appears to have a reputation for offering something substantial. And his LYT package is available free, and his MoC concept has been helpful to many Obsidian users.

179
Not quite so convinced by markdown - it's designed around coder habits and needs - but it is ubiquitous. Supplementing it with what I need, or coping with it's design decisions is a constant irritant in my workflow.
I've even thought about developing my own editor and markup language. Not seriously, but I have thought about what I'd remove (lots), what I'd improve (eg tables), what I'd add (eg colour, underline) and what I'd extend (eg header levels). Even thought about easiest way of doing it.

180
For me this process started as a response to a changing software environment.
I want to control what stuff is local and what is on the net. I want to control access. I want to be able to use my stuff on Linux, Android, iOS. Maybe even Mac. I want to be able to work on all my devices. I don't want my workflows constantly disrupted by software updates or bugs.

I think I've gone a long way, but it's starting to feel that software might be trying to pull me backwards.
I'm happy with large plaintext files and their OPML equivalents. Both interpreted accurately by many programs. They contain their own structures. I'm okay with wikilinks - they're workflow effective, understood by quite a lot of programs and are easily read
Not quite so convinced by markdown - it's designed around coder habits and needs - but it is ubiquitous. Supplementing it with what I need, or coping with it's design decisions is a constant irritant in my workflow.

Very uncomfortable with Obsidian's direction (I'll address that in another post). Am keeping a close on on alternative markdown editors and PKM programs. Am likely to spend more time in Workflowy. But I will still maintain focus on the standalone file foundation.

181
How do you guys collaborate with others (if at all) when using plain text? Say real time (like gdocs; MDhack for example) or asynchronoulsly (github for example)?
I don't at all.
When other people send me stuff, I work with whatever format they are using themselves. Usually that will be a form of rich text.
I don't like joint working when I'm in the process, so anything I do I save in a number of formats (docx, md & txt, pdf, epub, mobi) and leave them to choose how they want to do it at their end. Sometimes they will read in epub/mobi and do detailed comments in docx, which we will then use going forward. Very few people I work with use plaintext, given an option.

182
I really don't remember ever knowing that OneNote did wikilinks.
Same way as Obsidian. Type them in and click to create new note if one doesn't already exist.
Don't think there are backlinks though.

Also has handles to move markdown lines around in document.

Not mesmerising, but I didn't know that. Though you could probably fill several libraries with all the things I don't know about OneNote.

183
they can surely revert it or remove it
Remove yes, revert no.

185
Perhaps hacked or one of their volunteers made a change
Hacked off volunteer maybe

186
But I also suspect that route would be higher friction than using paragraphs only.
Options using paragraphs only instead of lines:
  • In programs where Enter=new line, type Enter, Enter;
  • If writing a long document in Obsidian, WriteMonkey etc, convert the line breaks to paragraph breaks in Editpad;
  • Use Typora, MarkText or word processors instead of Obsidian, WriteMonkey (Copy and paste will include simple formatting such as bold, italics + underline in MarkText but not Typora).
The degree of extra friction is not that great, which is why it seems like that this is what I will do.

187
I don't understand OPML, but it seems to be a difference of opinion about a setting relating to single lines
I've narrowed it down to this character -
The OPML uses it to indicate new line. x2=new para
But Typora has no new lines, only new paragraphs. So x2 recognised, x1 disappears

This leaves me doubting whether there exists a lower friction solution than simply using paragraphs instead of lines.

188
I find markdown a poor choice; the spec is poor (one blog bost!), there are multiple implementations/flavors, and it doesn't have good solutions for tables, embedding video etc (other than reverting to html). It forces apps to run a browser (or worse, embed it) to render it too.

I'd agree with all of this. But it's so fashionable it has become ubiquitous and practically what most people mean by plaintext.


For a killer plaintext format, check asciidoc.

I'd agree that asciidoc is better than markdown. Apart from its rarity.

But what makes most sense to me is:
*bold* /italic/ _underline_
and that's even rarer as a format.

markdown ... spec is poor
 etc (other than reverting to html)
My own observation is that markdown claims to be simple and human readable. But it isn't without a rosetta Stone equivalent. Use of whitespace is a nightmare and that is invisible.
And, doing many of the things that people want to do becomes extremely complex very quickly. At least word processors push complexity behind the scenes.

I like many of the ideas behind org-mode, but rarity means I've never looked for its own disadvantages. But I am aware that it's one of the options in Logseq.

I think this has reasonable criticisms of other plaintext formats, including asciidoc:
Org Mode Is One of the Most Reasonable Markup Languages to Use for Text
Also OrgDown

189
Tell me
What I'd like is to avoid the tail (file conversion glitch) wagging the dog (available programs and workflows).
With any solution being lower friction than moving from lines to paragraphs.

Dynalist and Workflowy appear fine for importing each other's opml exports single lines and all.
The problem comes with conversion to markdown.
Typora import concatenates single lines.
MarkText import concatenates single lines.
As do online converters.

I don't understand OPML, but it seems to be a difference of opinion about a setting relating to single lines. But I don't know the setting or how to change it in a simple way. I assume that if I  learned OPML, and Pandoc, and used Pandoc directly, there might be a solution. But I also suspect that route would be higher friction than using paragraphs only.

190
Double Entry in outliners
This can be avoided with a robust, but convoluted, workflow.
  • Write using the outline, rather than in the Notes. In Dynalist article view shows the typed text minus the bullets, if that matters. For some writing this is an advantage anyway because it means small sections can easily be rearranged.
  • Copy the formatted text, and paste into a word processor.
  • Remove the bullets and left align if necessary. This leaves each bullet text as a separate paragraph.
  • Copy and paste the result into a markdown editor. Paragraphs retained in Typora, MarkText and Obsidian. Or can be pasted into an outliner note with paragraphs also retained.
This workflow has the advantage of being robust however often a file is converted from markdown to OPML and back. With the disadvantage that traditional markdown editors, including Obsidian and WriteMonkey, are less convenient for writing.

191
bespoke formatting
Looks somewhat like org-mode but more longwinded

192
General Software Discussion / OPML - New Lines or New Paragraphs
« on: December 29, 2021, 03:48 PM »
I'm currently trying to refine my new core writing workflow, and looking fro glitches. I have discovered one described in this thread.. afaics the simplest solution is having paragraphs separated into, wait for it, paragraphs.
But that leaves in a markdown quandary.

I like my main workflow to be efficient. I am used to producing a new paragraph by typing Enter. I have been neutral about whether that paragraph is actually a paragraph (as in Word and other word processors, Scrivener etc) or a long single plaintext line as in most markdown editors; all I need is to be able to see my paragraphs as separate and distinct. My formatting programs have options to convert lines to paragraphs. These markdown editors includes WriteMonkey and Obsidian, and there's no option to change the behaviour (see this thread. Now I know that some apparently happily go Enter, Enter to achieve the blank line required to define a markdown paragraph, but I know I will never be one of them. My muscle memory is too strong. Even with a manual typewriter you could do CR LF with one hand then Tab with the other.

So the quandary.
  • I could switch to doing the substantive writing in Typora or MarkText which will do the required formatting. (As an addon, I could type in Word etc and copy/paste in). Not ideal, but not so bad; I'm used to writing in many programs.
  • I could give up putting the text into a file that swaps in and out of OPML. Certainly doable, but separates the synopsis and planning into a separate file from the text.
  • I could investigate and tweak the conversion processes. Might be doable. But OPML syntax isn't massively well defined, I'd probably have to get to grips with the innards of pandoc, and there's a long history of OPML issues on the web many of which finger weird formatting on the part of Dynalist and Workflowy.
  • I could find a different outliner that managed it all more successfully, but I don't know of another that has such a functional kanban as Workflowy.
My gut tells me to go with New Paragraph, because that's the dominant technology and expectation at most stages. Write in a program that does it with a single Enter. Double Entry in outliners or where otherwise necessary.

PS Had a further look at MarkText. Pretty well unusable for longer documents. No folding. No good navigation. Some aspects slow.

193
General Software Discussion / OPML single line problems with export
« on: December 29, 2021, 08:29 AM »
I have been developing a workflow that involves using OPML to move between markdown files and Dynalist/Workflowy, but I have hit a problem with exporting notes from both outliners. Paragraphs work perfectly, but single lines concatenate and sometimes produce a \ at the end. I have tried a number of converters including MarkText and Typora (which uses Pandoc), and the issues exist in each. The samples below are in Typora (Marktext has occasional issues where an extra line feed slips into the middle of a paragraph).

The simplest answer for me is to always use paragraph breaks. But I can't help wondering what is going on with line breaks and whether there is a simple, automated answer to the problem.
Screenshot in Workflowy.pngScreenshot in Workflowy.pngWorkflowy export in Typora.png

194
I'm interested in views of a coding oriented but not necessarily Obsidian using group.

After seeing a variety of problems on the obsidian discord which could all be related to Obsidian's default of Enter=New Line, I put in a request for Enter=New Paragraph (Shift+Enter=New Line) to be new default; old behaviour as a toggle. Currently it's not even available on a toggle.

The vast majority of programs seem to use this including Roam, Athens, Logseq, Scrivener and word processors.

It's never bothered me much because:
  • it only takes me a few moments to switch new lines to paragraphs and vice versa
  • I do most of my writing outside Obsidian.
but I thought it was ergonomically a big issue from a muscle memory point of view, so I submitted the request as no-one lese appeared keen to.

But then I wondered what coders and other tech oriented users thought who hadn't maybe got used to the Obsidian way of doing things. I think I'm safe in assuming that most writers, academics and general public would prefer the more common Enter+New Para default.

195
Enter = new paragraph. Ctrl+Enter = new line.
WriteMonkey 2.7 iirc  :)
No, tested again and it doesn't work.

196
Typora and MarkText have Enter=New Paragraph as default. (Shift+Enter=New Line in same Paragraph).
Ditto word processors.

Many markdown editors, including Obsidian use Enter=New Line.

Which do you prefer?

197
Live Preview
Now public, with a variety of other improvements that have been introduced recently.

wrt to writing, I like the new File Info plugin (not yet approved, but installable via BRAT). Works for txt as well as md files.  - words, pages, word frequency etc. Stays as a right panel option rather than being a menu selection like the simpler Get Info plugin.
Adding it to moving sections via the outline, that's two good writer features Obsidian has added lately.

198
General Software Discussion / Re: Windows 10 Announced
« on: December 17, 2021, 04:53 PM »
What happened to Notepad?
I still have mine. Did yesterday anyway.
10 not 11 though.

199
They're hoping to release it imminently it seems. idk.
Seem to have pulled back a little. Public release (presumably) still imminent,  but Live Preview and the new editor will no longer be the default.
That makes sense to me. Allows it to be tried without conveying the impression that people will be stuck with it. WYSIWYG fans will likely choose it, but there are still niggles and some performance issues and pure productivity may be best on legacy editor (restored default).

At least some of the issues arise from the CM5 to CM6 switch. And plugins and themes not being updated yet to new editor/API. Interesting to see that Obsidian has the Microsoft problem of legacy support after existing less than two years.

200
Live Preview once it's public. That might be a little while since there's still a fair number of bugs being reported and a few major features still to be added.
They're hoping to release it imminently it seems. idk. Presumably for Christmas. Still too many issues for inexperienced users, I would have thought, but it works and many prefer it now they have adjusted.

Pages: prev1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 ... 78next