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Living Room / Re: Browser discussion
« on: June 26, 2006, 06:43 AM »
The fun continues. Below is my review of opera 9 final (to be added on to my original review) as well as a reply from one of, what I consider, Opera's fanboys that rate it a glowing 5, not based on functionality, but simply because "Its the best". As I state, a 5 indicates to me that there is no flaw (or minimal) in the program and that it doesnt need to be improved upon very much to be totally enjoyable. Anyways, here we go
Feel free to add to this review by posting here
http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/945720329/1
Feel free to add to this review by posting here
http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/945720329/1
To WillyWonkah
OK, I've experienced issues with opera on heavily JS'd sites, and no they arent blocking the browser because I have it set to identify as IE. So please, hold that excuse as it wont caw. Not every site is out to block opera, as much as the fans and devs would like to think. Its not a conspiracy to keep opera down.
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Opera has made chase.com useless when attempting to register a new credit card account. Opera has messed up Bank of america military banking's, citibank's, and american express's menu systems to the point that you have no means of navigation (Please note, this is for users with registered accounts on these sites, not the homepage). All of the aforementioned sites work fine in other browsers, to include several linux based browsers.
Opera does not have an auto-complete feature, because they feel it is a security risk to store this data on a pc where it could be hacked. Let me tell you, if my pc is hacked, the autocomplete history is the LAST thing I am worried about. Auto-complete is a standard feature in every browser aside from opera.
Another feature is working auto-fill. Yes, v9 added a type of auto-fill, but it fails to detect various site's fields as auto-fill capable requiring a right click to insert this data.
Opera's bookmark management is nice, but I have grown acustom to the way that IE, Firefox, K-meleon, and konqueror work allowing you to right click a bookmark in the menu system to manage it, sort it, delete it, etc. This seems to be a standard feature in most other browsers.
Opera users clammer about those two websites that show you how you can use features similar to firefox extensions. This is all well and good, but you know, I like a browser to not lock me in to what the developers feel I should have, but allow me to extend it. Again, every browser (Heck, even LYNX (A TEXT BASED BROWSER) has an addon/plugin system) aside from opera can be customized by addons, extensions, whatever you want to call them. Noticing a trend here? Opera seems like they are so set on being deviant that they wont impliment features that are mainstream, but instead decide to impliment features which are only useful to a niche of users; I.E. torrent support, voice support (as javajones pointed out, would be something a user would be handling at the OS level anyways. Why would they use it in only their browser and not any other app?), widgets (havent found a good use for these yet). A good addon/extension system would make opera just that much more appealing to its users. If security is such a big concern for the opera devs, make the addons have to go through a certification process. From what I hear, one dev worked on torrent support, so why cant one dev work on certifying an addon for use with the browser? I have been dying for roboform support since v7, and while there is some of its functionality in opera, it cant compare to what roboform has to offer. If you google for it, you will see many users requesting the same thing. If you search their forums you will see the same thing, many many users wanting roboform support. There are various other addons that could be made, heck, maybe someone would add an addon for auto-complete *GASP*.
Opera is highly customizable, but again, what would seem like a very basic customization doesnt exist. You cant rearrange toolbars. Here is where the hardcore fans clammer in "But you can remove and add any button you want to any toolbar, thus negating this lack of a feature". OK, How many home users are going to spend 5 minutes adding and removing buttons each time they want to rearrange their toolbars, be it only once on their first use? This might be well and good for us techie users, but I doubt a home user is going to spend the time to figure this one out.
Opera is good for security but with this comes sacrifice. Opera has chosen to not add 3rd party support, the autocomplete mentioned above, as well as password viewing and editing (wand passwords), along with other features in an attempt to remove any point of error from the user that could cause a security risk. Security is good, but when it interferes with what should be common place features or functionality, you have to question how much is too much.
Opera is a great browser, the best in my opinion, but I just cant rate it as highly as I think it will eventually deserve, as I explained further in my review below dated 19JUNE2006. After all, we are rating the current browser build, and not what it can be or how it compares to others, we are rating the functionality that exists.
Opera is fast, it is light on memory, and it does have a high amount of customizability. I use opera every day, it is my default browser, and I love the functionality that is present, but that doesnt mean it cant be expanded upon or that there isnt room for improvement (Which there is, and sorely so in some areas).
Overall, a good browser, but not worthy of a high rating in my book.
See the review dated 19JUN below for more details
Also, continue the discussion in a more mature atmosphere located here
https://www.donation...dex.php?topic=4075.0
3/5
Now, on a side note.
I love reading these reviews where the so called "Opera fans" have to resort to insulting a user based on their review or because they rate it low due to not knowing a feature exists. This is even more prevelant in the latest beta thread here on FF located
http://fileforum.bet...iew/945720329/6/view
How about showing some RESPECT for a user's view? Nowhere in the TOS for betanews does it say you are required to agree with every review posted. I know, as a user, when I come to read reviews, I hate it when I see 5 star reviews that say nothing more than "The best", "Nothing beats it" or some equivelant. I like seeing users who rate it based on experiences because then that tells me more real world experiences and dont just give it a blind 5 without explaining WHY.
Why is that a MAJORITY (Not all) cant seem to respect the fact that someone might not hold the same views as you? Why dont you respect the fact that if a browser doesnt work for a user, they have every right to rate it low? Who are you to tell them that they cant rate it a 1 if it doesnt work on the sites they use? Will the average home user know that a website is blocking opera or feeding it alternate code? No. Will they care that opera is the most standards compliant browser? (Which doesnt matter when it cant display a majority of sites (The ones THAT DONT BLOCK OPERA) properly, to include several banking sites (many of which I've seen reported on opera's forums and via opera bug reports). No, they just want their browser to display websites properly. They dont care about standards.
EDIT
To T-C-L
This is called a review and I am entitled to display what I feel is wrong and missing from the browser. Since you didnt show enough respect to read my entire review before posting your flame, let me point out (as I did in my review) that I do use opera as my primary browser and I do feel it is a great browser, but it has its share of flaws that prevent it from being rated a 5. Unlike many of the sheep (read fanboys) around here, I am not going to post a glowing 5 just because I feel opera is the best browser. A 5 would indicate to the user that there are no flaws in opera, which is far from the case as in most pieces of software. A review should be based on functionality, or lack thereof, and not how you feel the browser performs under real world conditions, not some idealistic fantasy where everything is golden. If that were the case, I would be rating firefox a 1 all the time, but I dont because its not a bad browser, it gets a 3 from me because it also has its share of problems. Again, learn to respect peoples views, I never said anywhere in this review that you HAD to agree with me.
Also, Opera does not have addons in the sense that a home user would want to use. Yes, you can add custom menus and buttons, but what about toolbars that many home users are fond of? What about adding programs that add functionality to the browser (Roboform, For example)? Why should I be locked in, functionality wise, to what the dev's feel is best? The wand is far from the best, and roboform definitely would be a breath of fresh air for opera (and many users, just google for it or search the opera forums for roboform, you will see)
By the way, instead of saying "3/4 of the banks I have access to dont work", how about stating which banks so other users can chime in and let you know "Hey, this works for me" or "Hey, this doesnt work for me either"-Metshrine
I wonder why Metshrine even bothers to write long-winded posts ranting about Opera for every single version. What's the point?
If Opera is so bad and all its users are so terrible, use something else. You don't see me going over and bashing Firefox because Firefox fanboys are annoying, and because of Firefox's many problems with site compatibility. No, I stick with Opera and that's it.
I didn't bother to read Metshrine's comment in full because it was basically just a long rant, but I noticed this:
"Again, every browser (Heck, even LYNX (A TEXT BASED BROWSER) has an addon/plugin system) aside from opera can be customized by addons, extensions, whatever you want to call them."
Opera can be customized by addons too. You can download custom menus, toolbars, User JS, panels, etc. So yes, even OPERA has an addon/plugin system...
Anyway, back to Opera. It's smaller, faster and more secure than the competition. It's got loads of time-saving features built right in, and these features are created by professional developers who focus on usability and reliability rather than hobbyist coders who write an extension in their spare time.
And that is one of the main issues here: Opera's features just work. Firefox's extensions are nice in theory, but come across as an afterthought bolted onto the browser. And they break when you update Firefox.
Opera's features work, and they work out of the box. And when Opera introduces a new feature, you know it won't be long until someone in the Firefox camp copies it
So, Opera... Best rendering engine, fastest, more secure, and smaller. Innovators, not imitators.
And the best part is: ALL THOSE WONDERFUL EXTRA FEATURES DON'T GET IN THE WAY!
They are hidden until you actually need them or want to use them.
So yeah... I dumped Firefox a while ago because it has severe memory and resource problems, and because it breaks on lots of sites. Three out of four online banks I have access to don't work in Firefox at all. Opera works perfectly.-T-C-L
