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Messages - lotusrootstarch [ switch to compact view ]

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101
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: March 06, 2011, 09:39 PM »
wraith808:
Did I state any false in the comment that I made?

Trust me I've been admins and mods on a few SMF forums and the message was the result of "human action", not "error". There's a log that you can check in the admin area in SMF if you really want out the truth.

Did you just suggest that I should contact a mod here who might just be the one who banned me? Gotta watch less cartoons mate. ;)


Well since you choose to respect people who take covert actions than someone like me who speaks out, I'm not sure we should have further issues with each other.


p.s. Speak of which, this incident also makes me pretty sad how little we truly know anyone on the internet, even on a site as nice as DC. You are not the only one that felt sadness.

102
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: March 06, 2011, 09:00 PM »
lotus should *not* have been banned. you are now unbanned.

actually i couldn't see that you were banned.. maybe someone unbanned you already or maybe it was a ban on ip? i'm not sure.

Thanks mouser. I was unbanned a while ago, very shortly after I had to register yet another username (can you believe it!?) to protest about the ban:

banned.png

Looks like one of the global moderators wanted to have the ban in place... unnoticed. Somehow doesn't look like a system error to me given the action that so quickly rectified the problem. :)

103
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: March 06, 2011, 08:52 PM »
Thanks rgdot please remove my comment asap. There's no smear campaign going on here as I have neither the intent nor time (stacks of movies and wine bottles here to be consumed), as long as the mod learns his lesson and make DC a better place I'm good. :)

104
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: March 06, 2011, 08:30 PM »
ROFLMAO looks like some mod got trigger happy a while ago and banned my lotus username:

I can't remember how many times mouser actually asked mods not to ban people and not to stifle free speech. It's quite counter-productive and benefits no one (check my comment on the link):

http://www.techsuppo...goodie-every-day.htm
 (see attachment in previous post)

If you're actually concerned with improving the site, then why air dirty laundry like this on some other site?  Why not contact mouser directly?  I'm sure you know he doesn't condone this as long as you've been around- you even say so above.  Are you trying to help or hurt?  Because such perceptions on another site are sure to hurt...  I now really do question your intent.

People out there has the right to know that over the years we have developed such a censorship. Actions of the mods do reflect the much of mentality of the site, after all most of them are the very senior members on this forum, are they not?

No need to hide the dirt, no need to even try.

105
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: March 03, 2011, 04:02 AM »
Let's see now, lotusrootstarch...

  • You don't like the main page.
  • You don't like the software and/or software page.
  • You don't like the reviews page.
  • You don't like the forum.
  • You don't like our events.

You have found fault with all of these and want us to throw them all away and start from scratch.

Is there anything you do like? Are we doing anything right in your eyes?

Let's see app, how much can you sell a Toyota Camry 2000 in 2010, same config?

106
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: March 03, 2011, 03:14 AM »
Also the site has developed itself, over the years, into such an inflexible framework (based on the old SMF 1.x forum implementation since 2005) with loads of custom features integrated (such as donationcredits system, search mod, badges mod, blog authoring components etc.), making it such a burden to even think about moving the site forward beyond very occasional minor enhancements.

While it's totally understandable, please keep mind that various forum software out there (e.g. SMF 2.0) are rapidly evolving inside and out making forum functionalities and forum management processes so much more user-friendly, powerful and streamlined than what we have here, and all the new userland developments will be based these new frameworks.

We are basically sitting on the back of a dynasaur here waiting to be phased out. General appeal and user experience does matter big time on the web like it or not, and the standards for which are set by what others are doing not by our own "contented stagnation".

That's just a thought about the website itself.

107
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: March 01, 2011, 06:19 PM »
About phitsc's post ...

Interesting concepts ... and the first real specifics that have been mentioned, methinks  :-\.  Generalities of the, "You should do better," nature don't really admit of much discussion.  When the what could be better is specified, then there are grounds for discourse.  To date, save for your comments, I haven't seen any  :o.

But, then, I am significantly myopic  :D.

I'm also very late to reply, sorry  :-[.

barney, the specifics mentioned have been the subject of discussion since ages ago on the forum and chatroom and such "What I've been thinking about doing xxx/yyy..." topics have been from time to time brought up for various reasons. Judging from previous such events, I predict that we'll continue to debate on the same things at the next fundraiser.

108
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 07:10 PM »
Why don't we start by compiling such a list, let's say,by Day 2? Or a tangible action plan to improve the site (excluding software/site maintenance)? Or a list of new major apps (> 2000 downloads) that have been released since the last fundraiser, etc.?
-lotusblossom

This harks back to another recent thread about making more of the software that is available, and I believe app103 will be working on this as part of the fundraiser. It gets a hearty +1 from me since I would love to see a page where one can see just how much software is available on this site by now. At the moment I think the landing page of DC is still hiding too much of its light under a bushel.  8)

Worth a shot. +1 from me as well.

109
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 06:49 PM »
mate my case is awfully clear throughout the thread, if you cant see my points now then I'm really not sure what I can do about it. To me u guys seems to be nailing on this username/identity issue lol, to me such diversion tactics only add to the confusion and serve no one any good.

110
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 06:11 PM »
Well Target, if you see nothing wrong with the status quo then there's no point discussing the issues.

This particular discussion hasn't exactly been a welcome diversion or come at a particularly good time.

Don't you feel the resistance to constructive criticism?


I totally understand the worries and the desire for me to not bring these issues during this particular time, and to have this thread "calm down" asap, as such Target I suggest you to spend more time on the fund-raiser and not here. PDFTT as a few here would often say. ;)

As I said, I could be wrong all along... let's be patient and see how the fundraiser goes.

111
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 10:08 AM »
Godspeed.

112
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 09:55 AM »
lol app i know u *love* to dig stuff when crap like this happens on the forum. But memberlist doesn't light up your path. Keep working... or forget about it, does it really matter? ;)

113
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 09:45 AM »
Lotus: Am I reading that you have TWO accounts here? May I ask why you felt the need to hide behind this secondary account?

It's too good to be ruined like this one...

114
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 09:44 AM »
There are ways to bring attention to problems, and then there are other ways...

Yet sometimes there just aint other ways you know. Trial and error tells you.

115
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 09:42 AM »
to:lotusrootstarch - i see a subtext in many of your comments. it says you have a problem with the number of non-programming things that get talked about here. also the number of members who have little interest in writing programs. because somehow it *dilutes* the site. is that what you're hinting lies at the root of this problem as you call it? :-)

That's bizarre. I really don't think I implied such things in my posts. How boring it is to have an all-programmer forum? :P

116
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 09:01 AM »
NANY was a ton of fun this year I thought, and a lot of coders participated.  Although a few apps got quite a bit of attention from external sites, in general it got less attention on external sites than have some past NANY events -- and that was unfortunate.  But that's something that's really hard for us to control.  DC doesn't advertise, we don't have a public relations department, etc.  We just don't have the time, money, or inclination for such things.  We rely on DC members to spread the word, etc., and we worked hard to spread the word about it.

Mouser probably you got me wrong as I'm not proposing big marketing money for anything that DC does. It's not the DC way and I cannot remember we ever spent big bucks on marketing. Back in 2006 when I did my first NANY there were tons of external attention and support, there wasn't much promo required, and I don't think we did anything different. Everyone was pretty high at the time and the discussions and resulting improvements on the apps lasted a long while after the event.

This NANY effectively lasted 3 days with most of the replies posted by senior members on this forum. External support was very minimal.


Actually it's a little ironic that you are so against having a fundraiser, because the fundraiser is one of the few times when we actually make a real effort to get other sites to tell their members about us and to spread the word that what we do is worth supporting and contributing to.

Nope I'm not against fundraisers, I just have a inner feeling that this fundraiser is not well-timed to highlight anything and will likely make future one much less effective.

117
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 08:25 AM »
An improvement of the review area, better organization of the site in general.. Yes, definitely.  More big apps released more frequently by more people? Yes! Less insular and more people participating, yes.  More attention to the site by the outside world, yes.  More attention for our events, yes.  More focus on championing the idea of donationware? yes.

A resounding YES!

And it seems like your main point recently is, something is not right that these things aren't happening fast enough -- and then critically you make the leap to say that because we aren't achieving "success" fast enough we should be ashamed to have a fundraiser and ask for people's help in keeping the site going.

NO! My main point is all these that are long due, and are not happening, in any meaningful manner, at all!

Being an NANY contributor myself (owns multiple mugs, photos available on demand), now I look at the more recent NANY 10/11 -- they are the single most anticipated event, or should I just say the single event period, each year, and despite all the hard work we just ruin it.

Please, acknowledge that NANY's been going down every year and last year's NANY 2011 is the most anti-climatic event ever hosted on DC, despite the amazing work done by Perry Mowbray and the coders... and roflmao we've been sending out mugs and shirts since Day 1, that's not gonna change either. Early last year I posted very constructive comments on the site about changes to the way we do events, well, to hell with that I guess.

Mouser I mean is there a tiny teeny possibility that you have lost your good old touch on DC (bogged down with maintenance maybe?) and how about organizing something serious group projects involving creative minds here doing things new ways? We have worked together previously to great effects and I'm willing to contribute.

Here we are not just sticking to one idea (NANY) for four years until it becomes untenable, we are obviously sticking to a lot of stuff.


There are so many things we can do better here, and should work on.  But we also try to be a force for positive change and improvement -- and we try to support each other constructively.

IMHO the first constructive step is to realize+ack the problems, without it, how constructive can we get any further? I have not personally attacked anyone so far, I choose to focus on the matters.


That's why your posts are so jarring -- instead of looking at all of the good things we do and celebrating them and trying to help us figure out how to do better, you seem intent on making us feel bad for the things we haven't yet accomplished and insisting that we not ask for help until we achieve some higher level of "success".

Mouser I think you've got enough people here looking at all of the good things we do, there's not much that I can add to all the self-satisfaction. I just cannot see anything that remotely reflected on what DC failed or any tangible plan to fix things before I caused this outcry. ;)

118
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 07:43 AM »
Mouser can't do it alone.  And he does encourage people outside of the 'senior member circle' to contribute in whatever ways they can- I know from personal experience.

Not in the right ways, still not... i also know from personal experience... before you joined the site m8. :)

Look guys, there's no point making all these attacks at my username, it's just an agent to bring the problems to attention and provoke some thoughts. Sometimes hard poking is needed to trigger something happening.

I did my part for the site there's unlikely to be any further hands-on involvement. Some of you in this thread I know indeed too well to make personal attacks. You guys are simply the best members on this forum, or any forum, that I've seen so far. I'm not going to make my point by undermining any personality here.

But.. the problems I mentioned remain and this site is going downhill... fast.

@Stoic Joker:
Will what I say mean anything if the problems are not acknowledged first? There won't be any use debating on a solution.

Anyways time to read mouser's new post when I can haz a movie.  ;)

119
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 06:13 AM »
Hehehe I'm here merely to point out the problems, look at all the responses I got here -- all pointing finger directly at me, and it's never even about me, it's about problems.

So app you made me feel very bad about myself under this username... alright I'm defeated... so what? It doesn't fix any problems I mentioned.

Ouch you guys really have no idea... 'nuff said. best of luck. cheers.  8)

120
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 03:42 AM »
 :)

How about you take the initiative and lead DoCo in the direction you want it to to conform to be more like your image of it?

Let's face it it's mouser's citadel here. You don't lead, I don't, and nobody else does. Back in 2006/2007 when DC was still in its infancy there were a whole lot of discussion on new things that should be added to the site and a bunch of those new ideas in fact got done through collaboration, like the blogging features, help desk, search, among other things. Seems every bit of development is intended to make minor improvements to things that were already there since 3-4 years ago.

You joined the site too late to know the history, but that's alright. :)

Now except for spotty short-lived pseudo-excitements here every once in a while, it's mostly dead water over here, such pity isn't it?
It's so fortunate that we have all these senior members who come here every day even every hour to add content to the forum, but that alone doesn't make a pool flowing does it?

Anyways, let's see how well the fund-raiser is received. None of us is guaranteed to be right. Who knows, let's see.

121
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 01:13 AM »
sorry, maybe I'm dim, but I'm still not getting it - just what is the issue here?

Lack of systematic, organized innovation will be the doom of this site... (don't say NANY, NANY is currently a publicity event, not innovation).

One of my ideas is that we need to find a way to encourage people here to work together on big group projects and promote to the public together using the resources we have, like from daily donations and fundraisers.


The current model is that we have everyone developing their own app without much serious support from anyone, and then releasing all the apps together during an event like NANY under the umbrella (or brand?) of DonationCoder.

How did it work out?

After a year of solicitation, preparation and much time and money spent on this "major" event, it enjoyed 3 days of lackluster public attention and then just disappeared from radar... gone.. end of story. Few people outside here know it happened.


Regardless of my idea or the validity of my arguments, something is obviously not right here.

122
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 28, 2011, 12:45 AM »
cranioscopical, you are right in saying that this is not my intention,

Even thou my arguments may be cliched over time, they stand true throughout. Sometimes I have a feeling that inner circles of this forum is in constant self-denial over the lack of popularity and real participation, claiming "lack of commercial practices", despite efforts to the contrary sometimes -- I've seen:

1. Seniors members on the this forum posting good reviews about apps here on other more well-known sites (self-promotions)
2. Proactive publicity pushes (particularly during events)
3. Good implementations of SEO practices
4. PAD subscriptions to numerous sites

My point is clear:
Stop saying that publicity is not important or DC does not work like a company, there's a lot of time spent on it already that I can see. One of the real questions is why are we still getting this kind of humiliating traffic/participation stats after all these years?


I have very constructive opinions, but not available until you acknowledge the problems, dudes. :)

123
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 27, 2011, 10:54 PM »
I honestly don't get it.. what about that chart are we supposed to feel unhappy about?

For what it's worth, when this site was started in 2005, if you had told me that in two years we would still be online i would not have believed you (and i have the 2005 chat logs to prove it); i never for a moment expected more than a handful of people to ever be on the forum -- and i expected the forum would serve only as a place to get official support for the applications i had written.

That's right!! But (at least) on the appearance, haven't you been promoting an idea, concept, and ideal of donationware that coders should buy into, since the creation of the site? Isn't it something that fundraising money is supposed to support?

You had a bunch of coders since 2006 who created donationware for this site, some even implemented your donationware licensing modules into theirs app under the umbrella of donationware... to all those who already left the site, are you saying "i expected the forum would serve only as a place to get official support for the applications i had written"?

So in the end, it's a mouser site, nothing to do with donationcoders or donationware.

124
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 27, 2011, 10:49 PM »
I'm not accusing anyone not not working hard or any time... don't get me wrong on that.

There's something wrong about how this site operates!

125
Site/Forum Features / Re: Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve
« on: February 27, 2011, 10:46 PM »
There's no point convincing me to leave or shut up, that's not your objective! Let's face it, after almost 6 years of operation:

stats.png

This is the vote of confidence.. or not?

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