Messages

1251

General Software Discussion / Re: How big is the HTML 'hidden' field?

« on: August 11, 2009, 12:38 PM »

Yeah, I'm familiar with the output ... usually use it for passwords.  It's that, "...regardless of input size," that's bugging me.  Just as with the hidden HTML field, I have not found any mention of the upper limit(s).  I know the relative sizes of the MySQL text/blob fields, and can plan accordingly.  But w/o having some reference to the upper limits of the hidden field or to the hashing functionality, I'm just gambling.  Things only have to fail once in a commercial environment and my name is Mudd.

1252

General Software Discussion / Re: How big is the HTML 'hidden' field?

« on: August 10, 2009, 08:19 PM »

This will be PHP 4.x, so hashing is pretty much out of the question, as far as I know.  Don't know how large sha or md5 will go.  Mhash not available, as provider won't install it.  But, even with a hash, I still have the same question as to the length allowed, this time related to the hash capability.

Funny, never bothered me for years, but now I've just gotta know <chortle />.

While I'm not expecting any novels, there's a fair chance that some of the text area content could approach - maybe surpass - 64K in size, with one or two being even larger.

I wonder if it might be more effective to save the MySQL text field as a file, then do a compare with the textarea?  Not certain how CPU-/memory-intensive that might be, and it would definitely need to be server-side, a situation I'm trying to avoid.  Not certain I know enough JS to do that locally.

Only other alternative I can see at the moment is just to do an automatic update to the text field ... but that's another query call on the server, and there are already more than I'd like.  <Sigh /> PC-File was so much simpler <groan />.

1253

General Software Discussion / How big is the HTML 'hidden' field?

« on: August 09, 2009, 06:43 PM »

Folk,

I've searched this for a couple of days, but cannot find any definitive answer.

I need to make a comparison between a hidden field and a text area in order to determine whether to update a TEXT (BLOB) field in MySQL.

But I don't know, and cannot seem to discover, what limit might exist for the HTML hidden field.  I've found several discussions on setting the MAXLENGTH property, but none on the max of that property.

I'd prefer to compare the textarea and the hidden field for changes rather than make several requests to MySQL, on the theory that local system RAM is [usually] less expensive than the requests to the host.

Please offer any advice/comments on size limit(s), or even on procedure - I'm amenable to change, should that be warranted.

1254

General Software Discussion / Re: security - is malware prevention missing a basic tool ?

« on: July 02, 2009, 10:36 PM »

Steven,
Your post reminds me very much of something I advocated during much of my last tenure in the corporate world.

While working at MCI, I constantly - after the first three years, I had gained some credibility - importuned the IT folk of whatever LAN I was on at the time to create a master date log on the server(s) that was built from activity on each of the boxes connected to that server.  Almost all of the individual IT folk agreed that it would be extremely useful when trying to diagnose problems that seemed otherwise untraceable.  However, the admins of the various LANs proclaimed it to be too labor-intensive a project.

They didn't want to get off their fat [mental] asses and actually peruse/analyze the log files.  Instead, they proclaimed that such logs would eat too much HD space <groan />.

I suspect you'll find similar resistance to your idea when dealing with various vendors, even the so-called security vendors.  And for roughly the same reasons.  It's not a difficult thing to do, but it can be very time-consuming to review.  And building a smart app to do the review might actually take some of their precious brain power - ?!? - and time.

However, in validation of your concept - not that you need it - I've used processes very similar to what you've described to solve some pretty perplexing problems in the past, particularly with my [not so] knowledgeable friends who call in the middle of the night because they can't get their favorite porn site/application/Web game to work.

Strikes me that this is closer to nirvana than to reality.

Alaikum

1255

General Software Discussion / Re: Is there a Gmail backup that will save labeling?

« on: June 22, 2009, 07:57 AM »

Just a quick update.

Google's offline mail, via Google Gears, works well enough for advertised purposes, I guess, but I don't really trust it as a backup mechanism ... several emails on line don't seem to have made it to local storage.

Gmail Backup was working pretty well at first, but the latest version - 0.107 as of this writing - changed several elements of the backup process.  Those changes made it pretty well useless to me.  Four+ years of email does not store well in a single directory.

Postbox, a commercial product currently in free beta, doesn't properly handle mail with multiple labels/tags.  Since I'm using Google's label system to categorize and segregate mail into multiple areas, this product, as well, fails to satisfy.  Perhaps it'll improve as the beta moves forward, but currently it is nonfunctional for my purposes.

MailStore Home simply wants too much attention.  It insists on running in the foreground, and seems slow, as well.  If I switch to any other desktop - or even just a browser to check current mail! - it goes belly up.  I don't know whether it will do what I want or not, but I just don't have time to deal with such a prima donna of an app, one that doesn't seem to understand the multitasking concept.

That leaves only Gmail Keeper, a commercial product, yet to try ... there doesn't seem to be anything else around <sigh />. 

I'll be back with an update on that as soon as I've got something worth mention.

1256

General Software Discussion / Re: How to find MAC address of 'invisible' hardware?

« on: June 20, 2009, 07:04 PM »

Unfortunately, portabuntu does not play well with Win7 ... tends to reboot the system.  I use it quite a bit when in WinXP ... some things just work better ... but have not, to date, been able to make it work with Win7.  Don't know if it's Ubuntu, the portability port, or some of the stuff that's auto-loading ... just haven't had time to do a serious investigation.

However, even if it did run, Windows would still be running - and protecting me by hiding files it doesn't think I should see/access, i.e., mess with.  I like protection as much as the next guy, but I don't want a bullet-proof - ?!? - vest that automatically wraps around me as soon as I get out of bed and doesn't come off until I'm asleep, ya know?

Anyway, that's why I mentioned using a Live CD ... that way nothing - or so I hope - on the partition in question will be active <chortle />. 

Actually, XP is on the C: partition, several different flavours of Linux on the next few partitions, several card readers on the next few, and Win7 is on the O: partition, with L:, M:, and N: reserved for storage & boot images, along with a 2G USB as the P: drive for ReadyBoost(?) partition.

To my way of thinking, it's highly unlikely that Windows is smart enough to completely hide files from an unknown OS on a non-typical disk segment.  Speaking of which, it could be interesting to see what's on that thumb drive <chuckle />.

Oh, well, that's all for the future ... right now I have to resolve a PHP issue - different thread.

1257

General Software Discussion / Anyone have a preference for PHP desktop apps?

« on: June 20, 2009, 03:59 PM »

PHP-GTK is OK, I guess - I like the price - & it's cross-platform, but it has a learning curve that I'd rather avoid. 

NuSphere's PHPDock looks nice, but the $149 price tag is a bit more than I really wanna spend.

Those are the only two I've found with a casual search - although I'm still searching.  Anyone know of or prefer a different beast?

What I want to do is to is to create a quick app to store hosting & domain stuff - locally, on a private box - and have it available on the desktop while I'm in the browser.  Multiple browser windows would work, but that solution is not attractive.  I can design the MySQL database & create a PHP script to display & manipulate it - that's a piece of cake. 

I could dust off the VB CDs, I guess, but that's just more junk on the HD for a fairly trivial effort, and I'm not interested in upgrading to the latest & greatest version, so I might have some OS issues.

What I'd really like to find is a fairly simple app that will read the PHP, apply it, and sit on the desktop all by its lonesome, just waiting for action - preferably w/o a three-digit price tag.

1258

General Software Discussion / Re: How to find MAC address of 'invisible' hardware?

« on: June 20, 2009, 01:42 PM »

Sorry, but I've had to give up the rodent hunt ... it's taking more time than I can afford.

Last thing I did was a so-called global search on any file containing the offen[ding/sive] MAC address.  So-called because I don't know what files Win7 may be hiding/protecting.

When I come back to this, I'll repeat that search from Linux, prolly a Live CD.  Right now, I just cannot afford the time - I've yet to find a really fast search utility for Linux.

If I do finally reach a resolution, I'll post it back here ... kinda like to keep loose ends tied, when possible.

'Preciate all the help, information & suggestions you folk have given ... maybe some day I can repay.

1259

General Software Discussion / Re: How to find MAC address of 'invisible' hardware?

« on: June 16, 2009, 06:19 PM »

If that's the case, I'll adapt.  Remember, though, that with the phone disconnected and turned off, I was still getting the alert.  Oh, fwiw, that also included a reboot of the box, just to try to clear residuals.  There's still a rodent in the baseboards somewhere.

1260

General Software Discussion / Re: How to find MAC address of 'invisible' hardware?

« on: June 16, 2009, 01:08 PM »

I alluded to the wireless stuff briefly.  I'm as protected as I can be, considering the equipment.  WEP activated with a strong password, and I'm alerted when anyone tries to access the wireless area.  IP access is limited, if I can believe the router, to  three full time connections and up to three - now four - ephemeral connections.  That will grow, but I'm keeping it as tight as I can.

After digging around on the G1 for a while - just upgraded the software - I found that the phone is, indeed, the MAC address source.  Information not on the Web site, not in the book.  It's in the phone, but an area I don't remember seeing before ... think it showed up after the update.

The problem now becomes that of identifying a record and, if possible, changing it.  Well, same problem as I started.  Comforting to know there's a source ... I remember ghost machines on a DEC LAN back with Win98/98SE that drove us crazy.

Anyway, I'm still hunting for that record somewhere in Win7.  Surely I'll find it sooner or later <sigh />.

1261

General Software Discussion / Re: How to find MAC address of 'invisible' hardware?

« on: June 16, 2009, 01:00 AM »

Shades:  Thanks for the idea on the MAC filtering software ... hadn't thought to use that to kinda reverse engineer the problem.  I don't do any MAC filtering on the router ... never seen it to be useful as a deterrent - if I can get around it, so can many, many others.

Stoic Joker:  Yeah, that's been kinda bothering me, too.  Using a [TMobile]G1 with the Android OS.  I set it specifically to connect to the router's SSID and - I think! - alert me if other WiFi spots exist.  It is the most likely candidate to have created this situation.  However, on the chance that the G1 created this contretemps, I disabled the WiFi connectivity, then turned the phone off for a day ... still got the error prompt with the phone off.  That leads me to believe, still, that there's a record somewhere in Win7 that gets scanned every so often.  Unfortunately, the periodicity of the scan is not regular.

I'm partially basing that belief on a problem XP had with the router ... at one point, XP had three different records for the router - it would suddenly re-recognize it and give it a new designation/record.  However, that may have been due to the Comodo firewall, not the OS.  Didn't have time to research it, and it did not seem to cause any problems.  Still on my to-do list when I get back to XP <sigh />.  There are times when I really miss MS DOS.

1262

General Software Discussion / Re: How to find MAC address of 'invisible' hardware?

« on: June 14, 2009, 02:47 PM »

OK,
Let me try this again.  This is not a hardware issue, per se.  I'm aware of the methodologies broached and had tried most of them prior to my plea for help. 

This is a multi-boot system.  Windows 7 RC is reporting an IP conflict.  The event viewer purportedly shows the MAC address of the other device with the duplicated IP address.  That device does not physically exist in this building, much less in the network.  (For what it's worth, the MAC address resolves to High Tech Computer Corp, out of Taiwan.)  An ARP scan is useless.  An IPconfig scan properly identifies present devices.  Software scans report the errant MAC address.  This happens in Windows 7 RC.  It does not happen in any flavour of Linux on this system (Ubuntu, a few others).  It does not happen in WinXP MC Edition, SP3.

What I would like to do is to locate the Windows 7 source for this non-existent device and either edit or delete it so that the error stops popping up an alert box.

To my mind, at this stage there are only two possibilities remaining:  a false entry somewhere in Windows, or an intrusion into the wireless system.  I have elements in place to alert me of attempted intrusions.  I do receive such alerts.  I suppose it's possible that some hotshot pirate could still get into the wireless system unbeknownst to me, but the likelihood of said hotshot using the same IP address I'm using and only attaching to the network when I'm using Win7 stretches coincidence beyond my belief limits.

That leaves a bogus record, which I would dearly like to find, somewhere in Win7.

1263

General Software Discussion / Re: How to find MAC address of 'invisible' hardware?

« on: June 12, 2009, 08:52 PM »

Have a LinkSys WRT350N router, but it doesn't tell me anything that I can't already see.

Basic connections are as follows:

• LinkSys WUSB300 wireless @ 192.168.1.100 - primary machine
• Intel Pro/100 NIC @ 192.168.1.105 - primary machine
• generic 10 Mb NIC @ 192.168.1.106 - backup machine

There are other wireless units connected via DHCP, up to five at any give time, but none currently connected.  The error pops up with or without other wireless units connected.

There is also an NAS drive at IP 192.168.1.10.

The error is always on IP 192.168.1.100.  However, when I run LanGuard, it fails to show that IP address as a system.  Ran the SoftPerfect scanner, and it, too, fails to show the IP address as a system.

However, the SoftPerfect app did show that IP as having the conflicting MAC address.  But, ipconfig in a DOS box - pardon, command prompt - shows the IP address as 192.168.1.100(Duplicate), but with a totally different MAC address than the network scanners show.

Both scanners recognize the IP as active, but neither reports any details from a normal scan.  Had to do a right-click on the IP in SoftPerfect to get it to tell me the MAC address.

Dont have this problem with WinXP, nor with last three flavours of Ubuntu (as well as a couple of other distros), just with Win7.

If I disable the NIC, I lose the NAS drive (don't know why), so that's not a viable option.  I simply cannot find the cause of the Win7 error message.  It doesn't seem to be causing any problems that I can recognize:  I just don't like errant error messages.

The problem seems to be that Win7 sees a MAC that simply does not physically exist.

1264

General Software Discussion / How to find MAC address of 'invisible' hardware?

« on: June 12, 2009, 06:19 PM »

Windows - Win7 RC - is reporting an IP conflict, i.e., , two network elements with the same IP address.  When I check the Event viewer, the MAC address of the conflicting element is reported.  But I can't find anything with that address.

Anyone know of a utility that can find the inactive element?  Or, perhaps, where I'd look - registry? - to isolate the element, change its IP address?

Y'know ... once upon a time, I thought I was pretty good at this stuff <sigh /> ....

1265

General Software Discussion / Re: Is there a Gmail backup that will save labeling?

« on: June 04, 2009, 10:05 AM »

justice,

Tried offline when first released, but had some probs with it - don't recall now what they were, whether 'twas Gear probs or Google probs. 

I'm retrying it now ... take a while to d/l 2+ GB of mail, though, so be a bit before I'll know if it's working.  If it does, I'll come back and mention it here, thanks.
~~~~~~~~~~
wraith808,

Ran across Gmail Keeper announcement in the Gmail Backup forae.  Looks interesting, and prolly does exactly what I want, but I'm looking for something more OS-independent - read cross-platform - if I can find it.  Could prolly run Keeper w/VBox, maybe with Wine, but rather have something a bit more attuned to Linux when I'm not in Windows.  However, it is a possible fallback, thanks.

1266

General Software Discussion / Is there a Gmail backup that will save labeling?

« on: June 04, 2009, 12:37 AM »

I've been trying to find a good backup for Gmail. 

There are several ways to preserve the existing messages. 

But I've yet to find one that will maintain the labeling that's been applied to those messages.

Since the labeling has gotten fairly complex over the years - started in 2005 - a lot of information will be lost if I cannot maintain the labeling along with the messages. 

Anyone found such a tool?

1267

General Software Discussion / Re: Is anyone currently using Panda Cloud Antivirus

« on: June 04, 2009, 12:19 AM »

I loaded it on an XP/SP3 installation a couple of weeks ago.

I'm now running Win7 RC as primary OS, 'cause the XP install loses all Internet connectivity ~10 min. after reboot.

In fairness, I also installed some other apps about the same time, but none of them had any net function(s) of which I'm aware.

I've booted back into the XP partition several times, but still cannot track what's causing the network shutdown.

1268

General Software Discussion / Re: In need of a server-side email tool ...

« on: May 23, 2009, 12:55 PM »

Obviously, one of my incompetencies <sigh />.

I was remembering, not thinking.  There was a blurb ~ssh access that I mis-remembered and misconstrued.  Went back, re-read it ... nothing to do with Telnet.  So, it looks as though I'll be researching Telnet & email for the foreseeable near future.

Thanks for the swift kick ... I needed it <chortle />.

1269

General Software Discussion / Re: In need of a server-side email tool ...

« on: May 22, 2009, 11:41 PM »

Yeah, that's a good idea.

Thunk of it, but to my misfortune, telnet not allowed.  Figures.  Long run, that'd be a pretty easy solution ... not that good at the requisite scripts, but could learn.  However, datsaoneadem, "You can't get there from here," propositions.  I'm partial to easy, but it just ain't allowed in this situation.

I've reverted to clearing out 5-10 mailboxes a day, but that's gonna take a looong time, and really isn't long-term feasible.  What's frustrating is that I know this can be done ... just don't know how.  Think it is that I just do not have a decent understanding as to how email works when down in the trenches ... hurts when you're so ignorant you don't even know where to look, ya know?

Up until now, I thought I was reasonably competent ... then I get my [another?] incompetenc{e|y} rubbed in my face <chortle />.

1270

General Software Discussion / Re: In need of a server-side email tool ...

« on: May 19, 2009, 03:24 PM »

Ohhhh-tay!

As usual, I left a few things out.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Gothi[c]:  Not my server, but a commercial hosting account, e.g., HostGator, DreamHost, Site5, etc.  If it were my server, I'd be able to cobble together a script to accomplish the task.  Sorry I was unclear.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Gwen7:  No longer use such services, although I did so for several years early on.  Quit because one of 'em barred me for excessive usage, and another one became one of the very forces I was seeking out.  Also, not significantly easier - or faster! - provided I still had the tool I used before.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Carol Haynes:  Sorry, I was unclear again.  Of the 500+ accounts, ~350 are active mailboxes, the remainder being just forwarders.  The active mailboxes are safety net devices, in case I must re-travel the email time-line for a given account, otherwise they'd all be forwarders and this plaint would never have seen the light of the forum.  As I lose the need for email history, I delete the active mailbox(es) and just use the forwarders, but there's always some new mailbox to replace one that's been retired.
~~~~~~~~~~~

Trying to think if there's anything else I assumed and left out.

The app in question, the one I've been using, was acquired some time around 98/98SE.  It may have been cobbled together by one of the IT mavens on the DEC LAN at MCI (Richardson, TX), not a public app at all.  If not, it was likely something available via DEC, HP, or one of the other LAN vendors, something they used internally for maintenance, so still not a public app.

I've used this, over the years, on a dozen or so different public hosts, both Windos and *nix.

Note that it did not work on Web-based mail service - GMail, HotMail, Yahoo!Mail - accounts, just server-side - mx? - accounts.  I assume that was due to permissions/security issues?

It was a two-part process:  part one collected the host [server] data, then part two implemented - I believe - a script.  Not certain about this part, as the front-end was a compiled executable that I ran on the PC (until Vista, anyway).

Cannot think of aught else at the moment.

I know this is an outre request.  Such an app has a very tiny, very restricted niche.  However, when drowning, I'm willing to grasp at straws <chortle />.

1271

General Software Discussion / In need of a server-side email tool ...

« on: May 19, 2009, 07:07 AM »

Folk,

I seek a tool that will let me clear all the email account contents in a given domain w/o deleting the accounts.

I have a great number of email addresses.  I usually create a new address for any subscription or purchase, then forward that account to a central, unpublished account.  This has served me well in regard to identifying/quelling questionable sources.  However, those addresses do tend to accumulate mail.  While no more than 300-350 are currently active, there are probabably 500+ accounts all told.

The problem is that I need to delete most of the email on the domain server, which is stored as 20 here, 30 there, 100 in another account.

I had, several system crashes ago, an app that did that very thing for me ... I simply pointed it to the domain, and it deleted all current email w/o changing the account(s).  Unfortunately, I've lost that due to faulty backups.  I don't even recall the name of it, and searches via Google & other engines have not produced anything similar.

Without some such tool, I could spend a week doing nothing but deleting email - not an endearing task by any stretch of the imagination, and a task that I really do not have time to perform.

Do any of you know of any such tool?

[P.S.  Somebody is bound to tell me I'm a damned fool for doing this.  May be, but the procedure has served me well in identifying subscriptions that leak, loan, or lease addresses, and I simply cease to have anything to do with those sources.  My email spam has been reduced to about 20% of what it was prior to implementing this process.  It's a kludge, and I don't advocate it for most folk, but it works well in my particular case.]

1272

General Software Discussion / RESOLVED - Re: How to subvert Big Brother's blocking of URL shorteners?

« on: April 19, 2009, 12:40 PM »

Been a long time since I actually worked with ZA conifigs ... last time I did, there wasn't any spy site blocking.  I've just been doing automatic upgrades and using existing config.  Yeah, I know ... slovenly at best, and downright careless.  Oh, well, we live and, after getting hurt, learn.

The spy site blocking had four different URL shortening sites listed ... dunno why not all of 'em.  Marked the site as OK, and all seems well with the world.  At least I'll know where to look next time.  I just hate learning this way <sigh />.

Thanks, all ... ye've saved me much grief, methinks.

1273

General Software Discussion / Re: How to subvert Big Brother's blocking of URL shorteners?

« on: April 19, 2009, 10:33 AM »

app103, the GreaseMonkey script doesn't work, nor does the InterClue Firefox extension ... problem seems to be that access to the shorting site is blocked.

cranioscopical, while I'm using v9, I don't find any reference to a Web Guard.  Maybe not in the free version?  Or, I'm just too dim to see it <chortle />.

Forgot to mention earlier, Firefox is v3.08, and Avira is v9.0.0.387.  Also should mention that I cannot [currently] access tinyurl.com directly.  However, I can access is.gd, another shortening service.

Just for grins I tuned off the anti-phishing element of Avira, but it didn't make a difference.

1274

General Software Discussion / How to subvert Big Brother's blocking of URL shorteners?

« on: April 19, 2009, 08:03 AM »

Folk,

I've just had to reinstall Win (XP Media edition, SP3).  It's on a new 1TB HD on a 185 GB partition.  Not much has been installed so far, just the [kinda, sorta] bare essentials.  However, a problem has reared its ugly head:  the inability to access sites from shortened links.  For instance, if I click http://tinyurl.com/d7d3av, Firefox errors with, "The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.  The network link was interrupted while negotiating a connection. Please try again."  (Note, IE v7.0.5730.13 chokes also, but with different error, and I've been having other problems with it, as well, so cannot say at this time whether it is affected by this problem.  It seems to be, but cannot be certain.)

Did a couple of quick searches, but nothing found was applicable.

This has happened often enough in the last few days to be seen as some software helping, or protecting me.  Question is, which one(s)?

Zone Alarm Pro is installed, as is Avira AntiVir (free), both of which recently updated.  Also have several Firefox extensions which recently updated, but don't have any idea which ones - perhaps a dozen or so over the last few days.  These seem the most likely culprits to me, but I don't have a really good way to test which one is saving me from myself.  Or, to discover what other piece of software might be so solicitous of my online health.

Part of the problem is that not every shortened URL is affected.  So even the basic method of shutting one of the suspects down to see if there is a change is problematic ... futile, as well, if I'm wrong about the program(s) causing the problem.

Anyone have an idea or three of where/how to start?  I'd really hate for this to take a month or two to resolve.

'Preciate any thoughts on this.

1275

Living Room / Re: Eset False Positive Fiasco

« on: March 17, 2009, 02:18 AM »

Well-l-l ...
They're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't [sigh /].

There's at least one resident of this domicile that would totally panic at such a message popping up.  She doesn't know - and has no desire to know - enough to interpret such a popup, and would be as lief as not to hit the wrong button.  Your solution, Mouser, would be no solution at all for her.  Mind you, I like it, but it would be worse than useless to her.  And, unfortunately, to a great number of folk I know [sigh /].

Most folk just want something that works out of the box, w/o having to do anything other than press a button, click an icon or link, and have just what they expect on the screen in front of them.  The aforementioned young lady gets irritated if the app asks her whether to create a new file or reload the previous one [chuckle /].

Methinks the answer would be more along the lines of better in-house, pre-release testing, then significant beta testing.  Of course, that's even less likely than your conceptualization.  And highly unlikely, particularly, in the threat arena, even if 'twere an adopted practice otherwise.

My young lady's take - and I tend to agree - is that it should just work, and if it doesn't, the vendor sold a faulty product.  Actually, we've all contributed to that attitude - we who know better! - and now it's coming home to roost.

Told my boss back in '95 that if the Internet was an information highway, she needed to get a driver's license.  Still think that way, but it ain't gonna happen any more than it did with my boss.  We are inundated, day in and day out, with PC and software vendors promoting the next greatest thing, to the extent that education goes by the wayside, tossed into the gutter along the highway.

Ack!  This is turning into a rant.

Anyway, mouser, your solution will work for thee, me, and our kindred souls, but not for the majority of PC users.  They don' wanna make decides, they just want results right now!