Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • September 28, 2016, 01:49:56 PM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Author Topic: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?  (Read 4092 times)

Curt

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 7,041
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
It's using half the CPU, when I have played maybe a dozen audio files online!

 >:(

I have not yet checked if the problem is global, or if it only is when I use my local ISP, (musik.yousee.dk).

I can play the first 10 numbers, with no problems of any kind. Suddenly the sound will start stumbling and the computer will use 100% CPU. When I fight my way to have a look in task manager, Runtime Broker is using at least 48% CPU - and Firefox another 40% and some container 10% Anything left?


Unfortunately you cannot play the full numbers, (http://musik.yousee....mp;albumId=115607586) so there is no easy way to replicate the problem.

Or am I the only one having major problems with (Firefox and) Runtime Broker?  :-\

----------
Modified
SORRY!! I should of course have told that I am using Streaming Audio Recorder, to record the audio in question.

Also, I am on a 32-bits Windows_10_Pro 4GB_RAM Dell laptop.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 04:58:04 PM by Curt »

MilesAhead

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 7,161
    • View Profile
    • Miles Ahead Software
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2015, 01:09:47 PM »
I never heard of it, since I don't use apps.  Well, maybe the weather app for a few seconds a day.  According to search it is a permission management thingy in Task Manager.  At least that's how the top google result phrases it.  It does note that a faulty app can cause it to use way too much in the way of resources.

Is it possible to play the tunes with a different app or even a desktop program?
If you have to use the specific app maybe you can get it to try an older version?
Maybe the old one won't be so buggy.. if the site lets you use it.


TaoPhoenix

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2011
  • **
  • Posts: 4,548
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2015, 01:23:41 PM »
Curt, what OS are you running?

I hear it's at least part of win 8.x , but I'd like to hear from the win 10 gang on this.


hamradio

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 674
  • Amateur Radio Guy
    • View Profile
    • HamRadioUSA.net
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2015, 03:09:00 PM »
Heres a microsoft article about Runtime Broker on windows 10 using too much memory.

http://windows.micro...sing-too-much-memory

One thing the article says is...

Quote
Runtime Broker is a Windows process in Task Manager that helps manage permissions on your PC for apps from Windows Store. It should only use a few megabytes of memory, but in some cases, a faulty app might cause Runtime Broker to use up to a gigabyte of RAM or more.
Carroll - HamRadioUSA.net

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 8,274
  • "In my dreams, I always do it right."
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2015, 04:14:22 PM »
You can actually disable it if you don't use the windows store with no adverse effects.  What you should really do if you're interested is use ProcessMonitor to see what is actually causing it.  It's a broker as it implies, so it's doing this on behalf of another process.

Curt

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 7,041
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2015, 04:59:19 PM »
I should of course have told that I am using Streaming Audio Recorder [SAR], to record the audio in question. So maybe the sinner is SAR?

Also, I am on a 32-bits Windows_10_Pro 4GB_RAM Dell laptop.

IainB

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,050
  • Slartibartfarst
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2015, 05:29:53 PM »
...Also, I am on a 32-bits Windows_10_Pro 4GB_RAM Dell laptop.

Blimey. I don't know why, but I had assumed that Win10 only supported 64-bit (i.e., not 32-bit).
Maybe there's hope for my old 32-bit Dell laptop yet...my 5 y/o son uses it for games. It has Vista Ultimate or something and runs incredibly slowly and I would not use it, though it is OK for games.

Would you mind posting to the Windows 10 thread about your experiences with the 32-bits Windows 10 Pro 4GB RAM Dell laptop, please? Potentially, it could be rather useful to a lot of people. It'd be interesting too.

Deozaan

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Points: 1
  • Posts: 7,647
    • View Profile
    • The Blog of Deozaan
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2015, 05:59:16 PM »
Runtime Broker is currently sitting at about 12MB RAM used and 0% CPU. Sounds like your issue could be related to SAR or some other rogue/unoptimized program.

Blimey. I don't know why, but I had assumed that Win10 only supported 64-bit (i.e., not 32-bit).
Maybe there's hope for my old 32-bit Dell laptop yet...

I have Windows 10 32-bit installed on my Netbook. It runs like molasses, but so did/does Windows XP/7 and pretty much every Linux distro I've tried on it.


4wd

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 4,405
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2015, 06:44:17 PM »
Since I don't use any Windows apps, (only a local account), I disabled the Time Broker service which kills Runtime Broker.

I have Windows 10 32-bit installed on my Netbook. It runs like molasses, but so did/does Windows XP/7 and pretty much every Linux distro I've tried on it.

Same here, except the stripped version of XP I was using ran quite well.

Shades

  • Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 2,079
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2015, 07:51:39 PM »
I have Windows 10 32-bit installed on my Netbook. It runs like molasses, but so did/does Windows XP/7 and pretty much every Linux distro I've tried on it.

The only common denominator in your endevours is the hardware you run each OS on. With that in mind, it is very likely that your hard disk is a very big contributor to the slowness. Check your HD to see if it aligned properly. Don't use Windows to check for this, better use 3rd party software like Minitool's Partition Wizard (available as both freeware and commercial). But there are more free and commercial software packages similar in function as PW.

Check each partition on that HD for this, because I have noted on several occasions (anecdotal, I know) that it isn't certain that every partition is actually aligned. Aligning is very intense and can take very long to complete, so make sure your computer is deprived from electricity during this procedure.

However, once done you will notice a speed increase. Defragging afterwards with a tool such as Auslogics Defrag (free and commercial) can add more of a speed increase. The tools that come with Windows 7 and up are quite good at what they do, so most don't bother to look further. Still, 3rd party tools do have a valid reason for existing.

When you use Linux on the HD, the defragging should not be necessary as the file systems Ext2 and Ext3 (most common ones) do not fragment files as much as the NTFS file system from Windows does. Caused by different mentality during the design of these file systems mainly.

Anyhow, that still leaves the uncertainty of (the partitions of) your HD not being aligned. Simply stated: this negatively affects any OS more or less in equal amounts.

Most netbooks come with a SATA interface, so if the above sounds as too much work, clone the HD onto an SSD (completely!) and see the netbook making strides you didn't take it could...ever...going downhill...with gusting wind in its back...eating icecream! :P   

Deozaan

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Points: 1
  • Posts: 7,647
    • View Profile
    • The Blog of Deozaan
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2015, 12:42:21 AM »
I have Windows 10 32-bit installed on my Netbook. It runs like molasses, but so did/does Windows XP/7 and pretty much every Linux distro I've tried on it.

The only common denominator in your endevours is the hardware you run each OS on. With that in mind, it is very likely that your hard disk is a very big contributor to the slowness.

I put an SSD in there about a year ago. It's still awfully slow. :)


Curt

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 7,041
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2015, 03:59:21 AM »
Heres a microsoft article about Runtime Broker on windows 10 using too much memory. http://windows.micro...sing-too-much-memory

^thank you for finding this, hamradio!
Another good link could be https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3fe1lx/runtime_broker_cpu_usage_fix/

------

Turns out the owner is Trusted Installer. I wonder if I should take ownership, and maybe rename Runtime Broker to prevent it from starting in the first place? I have never had any connection (that I know of) to Windows_Store. My Win_10 is like a new Win_7, I don't have any "apps"; everything "for your comfort" has been disabled.

Can my laptop live without Runtime Broker?  :tellme:

« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 04:23:29 AM by Curt, Reason: reddit »

Curt

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 7,041
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2015, 04:42:43 AM »
Since I don't use any Windows apps, (only a local account), I disabled the Time Broker service which kills Runtime Broker.

^ I didn't respond to this, because I have not yet been able to find this Time Broker service.
Probably because names on services are translated into local language.

modified
Can I do anything to TimeBrokerClient.dll or TimeBrokerServer.dll  :tellme:



Curt

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 7,041
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Runtime Broker problem solved?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2015, 07:24:16 AM »
hm... In my AnVir task manager I right-clicked Runtime Broker, and selected Block Process (Quarantine)
-and then recorded a full album online, without any problems.

Problem solved?  :-\  Time will tell
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 08:21:15 AM by Curt, Reason: spelling »

4wd

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 4,405
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2015, 07:36:31 PM »
Since I don't use any Windows apps, (only a local account), I disabled the Time Broker service which kills Runtime Broker.

^ I didn't respond to this, because I have not yet been able to find this Time Broker service.
Probably because names on services are translated into local language.

From tenforums:

Quote
Runtime Broker kept thrashing my system, usually using 40% of my CPU although memory use wasn't much, according to the Task Manager. I'm currently using Windows 10 Pro x64 version 10240.

Runtime Broker is a service called Time Broker, which can be disabled through editing the registry.
Right-click on the Start Menu Icon. Go to RUN and type regedit.exe and select OK.

Find the following entry:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TimeBroker] "Start"=dword:00000003

Change the 3 to a 4.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TimeBroker] "Start"=dword:00000004

4 is Disabled, 3 is Manual and 2 is Automatic startup.

Before editing, the original value was 3. Set to 4 to disable. Just change the 3 to a 4 through the MODIFY menu selection, exit regedit and reboot your system.

After this edit, Runtime Broker no longer runs and the CPU at idle is now only 0 to 1 or 2 percent.

No adverse affects after disabling Runtime Broker on my system. (ADDITIONAL NOTE: Disabling Runtime Broker will prevent apps from the Microsoft Store from running.)

Curt

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 7,041
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2015, 02:48:22 AM »
oh, Thanks a lot, 4wd!  :up: You have been donated...

Looking in task manager's log, it was easy to see that the right solution not is to quarantine a program; the log was full of >> RuntimeBroker.exe 1660 terminated, worked 0:04, CPU 0:00 C:\Windows\System32\RuntimeBroker.exe   <<-lines.

Still having "Open in RegEdit" installed (Mozilla is wrong, the addon is not too old, but works absolutely flawless, when finally installed) in Firefox, it took a couple of seconds only, to use your quoted trick.
Again, Thank You!

Problem solved, the right way.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 02:55:10 AM by Curt, Reason: DonationCoder »

Shades

  • Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 2,079
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2015, 10:05:17 AM »
I have Windows 10 32-bit installed on my Netbook. It runs like molasses, but so did/does Windows XP/7 and pretty much every Linux distro I've tried on it.

The only common denominator in your endevours is the hardware you run each OS on. With that in mind, it is very likely that your hard disk is a very big contributor to the slowness.

I put an SSD in there about a year ago. It's still awfully slow. :)
Usually you can get software that measures the speed of a SSD from its manufacturer. You should check the read/write speeds of that SSD in the netbook and preferably in another computer you own. If there is a big difference, it is quite safe to assume that the SATA controller in the netbook is not functioning as it is supposed to. While repairable, costs of parts and labor will quickly go over the price of a new netbook. Exchanging the mainboard of the netbook with another one is also an option.

@Curt:
Depending on the version of Windows you used to upgrade to Windows 10, you might have access to security policy manager (Windows key + R and type: secpol.msc). If you do, you can make an additional rule in 'Software Restriction Policies' (Path or Hash) for the file that you don't want (any type of user account in) Windows to execute.

Be careful with this, you could mess things up if you are overzealous.

4wd's solution is the more elegant solution, but if you are in a pinch, the solution above might prove useful until you find a more elegant one. 


Curt

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 7,041
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2016, 06:10:50 PM »
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TimeBroker] "Start"=dword:00000003
Change the 3 to a 4.

^ this worked well on the laptop.
Unfortunately, the accumulator has broken down
and I am now on a 'spare' desktop station (32-bits Windows 10 Home)
... and the quoted trick doesn't work anymore!

Any suggestions, please? I "think" I have disabled all out-going services that might use Microsoft Store - and almost everything else.

2016-01-06_002254.gif


:tellme:

4wd

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 4,405
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2016, 09:40:44 PM »
It's an "essential" service, the best you're going to be able to do is remove things that use it to so as to reduce its effects on the system.

I've disabled Time Broker service on a Win10Home system I have here at the moment - this dropped Runtime Broker from >10% CPU and ~10MB RAM -> 0% CPU and ~1MB RAM (which stopped a good amount of disk thrashing).

Read from this post onwards - there's a couple of ideas on reducing it's usage.

IainB

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,050
  • Slartibartfarst
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2016, 01:28:01 PM »
That's interesting. After reading this discussion thread, I went and read all the links people have provided and then looked at RB (Runtime Broker) in Process Hacker.
This is on a laptop running on Win10-64 Pro v1511 Build 10586.0 .

RT seemed to be using very little (around 0.03%) or no CPU, but was sitting on about 935Mb of Private Memory. The laptop has 2 x4=8GB RAM, so RB was using nearly 12/5% of RAM.
In System-->Notifications & actions-->Quick actions--> Notifications, the first 4 of the switches were ON, and the fifth was OFF.
I found that switch #1-Show me tips about Windows seemed to affect the RB process most, so I restarted RB via Process Hacker and experimented with switch #1. Restarting stopped the process, but did not cause the process to start up again though.
It seemed that switching switch #1 ON or OFF would trigger RB to start, if RB was already stopped when the switch was pressed. RB would then stop itself again after about 30sec., if the trigger to start had been moving the switch to OFF, but would continue to run if the trigger had been the ON switch.
With the switch ON and RB started, I ran a steam game program that always crashed when initially started, sending notifications to the screen display and the Action Center window (click the icon above or next to the Start bar clock to bring that up).

This gave RB something to be busy with, but it's use of CPU seemed to very briefly dynamically change somewhere between (typically) 0.2% to 5.0% at the most, and RAM would dynamically change between about 1.7Mb to 11.0Mb, at most, and settle down at about 2.0Mb when RB was idle at 0%CPU.

So I do not know how RB accumulated the 935Mb of RAM, though I have the idea that maybe it is buggy, or some apps are not playing nicely with it, and it somehow gets hooked on to and progressively accumulates RAM without it being dynamically reallocated/released to the system. That might also explain an odd performance issue - hesitation - that I have experienced in this laptop's operation, when nothing seems to be hammering the CPU particularly hard. I didn't consider that one of the causes could be that available RAM might be running low and a lot of memory page swapping to/from disk might be going on.

I shall have to figure out how to automatically monitor the RB process more closely from now on.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 01:39:11 PM by IainB »

Curt

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 7,041
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: What is Runtime Broker, and Why is it working so pathetically bad?
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2016, 09:35:41 AM »
I have disabled almost everything, so my Runtime Broker really has nothing to do:

This is when doing "nothing":

01.png

and this is when I record music (now via Wondershare Streaming Audio Recorder):

02.png

The difference is too small to matter, so I will no longer worry about Runtime Broker, even though it is disappointing that it can't be stopped all together. Maybe Search must be disabled as well. Maybe Explorer must be disabled...   Windows?