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Last post Author Topic: "English" <> "German" translations  (Read 6369 times)

AbteriX

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"English" <> "German" translations
« on: June 17, 2014, 03:17:52 AM »
Hi community,

most of you may know I am German and English isn't my mother language.

So often I can translate some words one-by-one, but have trouble with grammatic  and special terms and idioms.

I hope some of you can help me with my daily battle by proving corrections and suggestions?

Thanks in advance!  :Thmbsup:


.

AbteriX

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2014, 03:22:52 AM »
First question:

after installation of a application,
what is the correct term to bring that app or the plant to work?
(do some settings, enter the license, connect the instrument,... all user related stuff, in contrast to the commonly used main installation )

German term: die "Inbetriebnahme" , die Anwendung "in Betrieb nehmen"
My English: the Commissioning,   do the Application commissioning

Elaborate: after I have installed an application for an measuring system in a labour, I have to do set up the application so the customer can work with it:
- go to the settings, chose one of many possible instruments, set the serial COM-port, maybe tell the customer to connect the device, gas, water, air,...
so the customer can really WORK with the application, instead it is installed only.



I have found "commissioning": e.g. "We were not invited to the commissioning"

and was told it should be "turning to production":
e.g. "After the main installation, go ahead and bring the application into production"

Or can I use "bring the application to work" too?



Thanks in advance.


.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 03:46:10 AM by AbteriX »

mouser

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2014, 03:25:00 AM »
I'm having a little trouble understanding what you are trying to say.. Perhaps you can elaborate, or write the german version and have some of our german speakers give a good translation?

AbteriX

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2014, 03:47:24 AM »
Thanks for helping.

write the german version
Already done in the meantime,  ;)

Perhaps you can elaborate,
Done now too.

Deozaan

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2014, 03:54:45 AM »
I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean even with those changes, but from what I can tell, you're talking about "configuring" the application.

An example sentence could be:

"After the application is installed, make sure to configure it properly."


AbteriX

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2014, 04:05:03 AM »
I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean

Really?  :-[  Sorry.

I mean, there's a difference between just "installing" an application, and be able to really work with it.
(I talk here about software in conjunction with measurement instruments, connected over USB, network or serial cable)

So we have to configure the application and/or the measurement device.

This part, the configuring, doing the settings, connecting the instrument, and so on...,
so the customer can really use the app for work at the end,
is what we call "die Inbetriebnahme" (the Commissioning),
"die Anlage in Betrieb nehmen" (turn the plant into production),
is what I look the right term for.


It is the same if you would build a fabric factory. After assembling everything together, you have to do some set ups to let that thing really work.


.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 04:10:35 AM by AbteriX »

tomos

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2014, 04:07:50 AM »
I'm a bit late to the party - disclaimer: my technical German *and* English are not that great. I thought that by using a German language OS I would learn the terms, but I didnt - just gave up after a couple of years and went back to English.

German term: die "Inbetriebnahme" , die Anwendung "in Betrieb nehmen"
My English: the Commissioning

I'm curious - how did you translate these in the end?

AFAIK in regular language 'Inbetriebnahme' would be 'the implementation'.
I dont know if the word 'commissioning' is used in technical language (?)
I would simply call it the 'setup' in this case.

'Anwendung' translates as 'application' - but I'm not sure if it's being used as 'software-application' (?)


(overlapping with your post Stefan)
Tom

AbteriX

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2014, 04:46:14 AM »
Hi Tom, not to late  :P

I'm a bit late to the party - disclaimer: my technical German *and* English are not that great. I thought that by using a German language OS I would learn the terms, but I didnt - just gave up after a couple of years and went back to English.

German term: die "Inbetriebnahme" , die Anwendung "in Betrieb nehmen"
My English: the Commissioning

I'm curious - how did you translate these in the end?
What do you mean "how did you translate"?
Ahh, I think I see: my main resource for translating is "QuickDic", or Leo.org and Dict.cc


Quote
AFAIK in regular language 'Inbetriebnahme' would be 'the implementation'.
I dont know if the word 'commissioning' is used in technical language (?)
I would simply call it the 'setup' in this case.
QuickDic says to
"commissioning" > Inbetriebnahme / Inbetriebsetzung / Indienststellung.
"implementation" > die Durchführung / Implementierung / die Umsetzung / Realisation.

So "Commissioning" fits better I would say.

"Setup": I would say I do the setup for the commissioning.



Quote
'Anwendung' translates as 'application' - but I'm not sure if it's being used as 'software-application' (?)
Yes, ENG:Application is GER:Anwendung in software terms, and medical also I would say (apply/applied/applying<> anwenden).
Die medizinische Anwendung <> the medical application
http://www.linguee.d...dizinische+Anwendung

der Software-Anwendung <> the software application.
http://www.linguee.d...e+software+anwendung

Also e.g. "das Urteil findet keine Anwendung" <> " judgment is not applicable"


- - - - - -

What I have found so far,
Spoiler

Inbetriebnahme <> Commissioning
http://www.linguee.d...p;query=commisioning

implementation <> die Durchführung
http://www.linguee.d...query=implementation


anlage in betrieb nehmen <> put the plant into operation
http://www.linguee.d...ge+in+betrieb+nehmen


die Software in Betrieb nehmen <> the software is operational.
die Software in Betrieb nehmen <> to use the software productive,
die Software in Betrieb zu nehmen <>  put the software into operation on-site yourself
die sich ohne eine Software-Programmierung in Betrieb nehmen lassen <> put into service without any software programming.
http://www.linguee.d...re+in+betrieb+nehmen


this will do it I think:

"After the installation do the commissioning to put the application/device/plant into operation / into service."

- - -

For "turning to production" I have not found that this is what we mean with "Inbetriebnahme". So I will drop this term.



Thanks so far. But I am still confused that you don't know/use "Commissioning" for putting an factory into operation mode...  ;D

tomos

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2014, 05:07:22 AM »
Thanks so far. But I am still confused that you don't know/use "Commissioning" for putting an factory into operation mode...  ;D

for a factory yes -
what do others think of the use of 'commissioning' for software? (as I said, I'm no expert here)

I mean, there's a difference between just "installing" an application, and be able to really work with it.
(I talk here about software in conjunction with measurement instruments, connected over USB, network or serial cable)

So we have to configure the application and/or the measurement device.

This part, the configuring, doing the settings, connecting the instrument, and so on...,
so the customer can really use the app for work at the end,
is what we call "die Inbetriebnahme" (the Commissioning),

(my emphasis)
Tom

Tuxman

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2014, 05:27:19 AM »
I'd call the configuring and "commissioning" part the "configuration", but I'm German anyway.  :D

tomos

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2014, 05:38:56 AM »
^ yeah, I'd agree that 'configuration' is a much better word to use than 'commissioning'.


(You were using that already Stefan, dont know how I missed it :-\)
Tom

40hz

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2014, 06:23:32 AM »

I'll also agree that "configuration" is the word you most likely want to use.

"Commissioning" implies giving some sort of permission - or assigning a task to something/someone. Usually a person.

"Configuring" is doing all those little things needed to make something work - or work properly.

Most technical instructions I've seen written in American-English seem to follow a sequence where:

  • hardware is either set-up or installed
  • software is installed
  • then both the hardware and software are configured

The above are not firm usage rules.

It can get confusing because "setup" (or "set-up" ) is often used interchangeably with the words "install" and "configure" when used informally. American-English colloquial forms, slang expressions, and technical jargon are no easier to follow than they are those found in any other language.

About the only other similar IT term is the word "provisioning." But that word is mostly restricted to the network and telecommunication sector. "Provisioning" is an all-inclusive term that refers to the entire process needed to make a network-based product or service available to a customer. That would include hardware, software, wiring, setups, configuration, activation, etc.

I've never seen the word "provisioning" used in context of anything other than enterprise-level hardware or software.

Hope this helped. :)

AbteriX

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2014, 07:30:16 AM »
So I should not use the term "commissioning" for my task?

configure, configured, configuration would fit better, you'd say.


It seams you native speackers never use "commissioning"
for the task to put the application/device/plant into operation.
(But for a factory you would do? It's both the same for me.)


OK, I hear you. (still confused)



But I can use "into operation / into service"?
"do the configuration to put the application into operation / into service"?


What about "turn to production"?
"do the configuration to turn the application to production"?


----------

EDIT

now I found additionally "starting up" / "initial startup" / "initiation" / "launch"

Spoiler
http://www.dict.cc/d.../Inbetriebnahme.html

Inbetriebnahme {f}
    commissioning
    implementing
    activation
    starting up
    startup procedure
    entry into service
    putting into operationtech.
    startup operations {pl}tech.
    start-upengin.
Erst-Inbetriebnahme {f}
    initial startup
    initial start-up

http://dict.leo.org/...ltiwordShowSingle=on

 "initiation" / "launch"


.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 07:35:33 AM by AbteriX »

Tuxman

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2014, 07:35:21 AM »
Why so complicated? German agencies should not be used as a source for English terms. "Enabling" is "putting something into operation", basically.

tomos

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2014, 07:41:19 AM »
Stefan, I would simply say:

Configure the application for use:
or,
Configure the application before use:

Then the user gets the Options, or the configuration 'wizard' - or whatever.


Edit// you could also say:

Configure the application for operation:
Tom

40hz

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2014, 07:47:43 AM »
Why so complicated? German agencies should not be used as a source for English terms.

Exactly.

Just use: configure, install, and setup. :) :Thmbsup:


---------------


@AbteriX - The real challenge for English/German translation is that both languages are similar enough (in many respects) that it's all to easy too miss how different they actually are. Especially grammatically.

English doesn't have the stricter word order rules German seems to have. English also doesn't have the same flexibility about the position of a noun in a sentence. For example, all of the below sentences are correct in German AFAIK.

Der alte Mann gab mir gestern das Buch.
Das Buch gab mir gestern der alte Mann.
Das Buch gab der alte Mann mir gestern.
Das Buch gab mir der alte Mann gestern.
Gestern gab mir der alte Mann das Buch
Mir gab der alte Mann das Buch gestern.
                                                        20c.gif

They would all be incorrect (or at the very least considered awkward constructs) in standard English.

Standard English would more likely say (transliterated below):

The old man gave me the book yesterday.
Der alte Mann gab mir das Buch gestern.

or

Yesterday, the old man gave me the book.
Gestern, der Alte Mann gab mir das Buch.

                                                                     14c.gif

IIRC enough of my high school German, both transliterated English sentences would be considered somewhat incorrect in German wouldn't they?

Human languages! Such a fascinating subject! 8) :)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 08:27:54 AM by 40hz »

AbteriX

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2014, 10:16:14 AM »
Thanks so far  :-*         I will see if I can get an use out of this  :(   :P






 

mouser

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2014, 10:24:07 AM »
"Configure the application before use" or something like "Configure the application before first use."

Edvard

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2014, 05:28:42 AM »
My first thought was "deploying", but that would apply more to implementing the use of a software package by many users in a group or enterprise, as in:
"We deployed the new cloud software to all our partner companies"

The next thought I had was the common use of "running" or "using", as in:
1- Install the software
2- Configure the software
3- Run or Use the software
 :-[

bob99

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2014, 07:44:00 AM »
AbteriX,

I am a little late here. Is this similar to what you are asking?

In your second post you make reference to different measurement devices/instruments that may be used.
So not only will the user need to configure software or firmware for using the device, they also will have to follow certain other steps related to the application and device for everything to operate properly.

It will be a combination of things software, hardware and application?

TaoPhoenix

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2014, 12:30:55 PM »
What does the app do? I think there could be one more twist here, using the word "customizing" or related words. Possibly even "designing the environment". The example I am thinking of is back at my old job, unlike just "installing and configuring" something simple like a web browser, we changed accounting packages and procedures, so while the software itself happily sat there installed and even maybe "configured", if you change your accounting coding, you have to decide a certain type of financial data strategy.

So then when pulling data such as previously produced construction estimate files, you have to prepare the data to be imported etc.


AbteriX

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2014, 01:32:20 PM »
Thanks for helping!  :Thmbsup:

Thanks 40hz. I see, English is more strict here. And I am always think German and translate words one-to-one.

Bob had it well explained.

Tao, it's not one app only, I need to describe this things more often.
Now I want to describe this steps in English too. I know the words, but I am lacking grammatical, right terms for special tasks, and  idiom / locution.


Another try to explain it:
1.) Install the application (run setup.exe, extract everything to HDD, let create some bonds)
2.) Configure the app (some basic Options or Settings, adjust some things, for current user)
3.) See if the app works for the users need (wanted features, write access,...)
4.) assembly the PC, plugin cards and the device at users site
5.) Connect a device/instrument/gauge
6.) Configure the instrument (or the app for to use the device)
7.) Test the device connection and see if we can get valid data

1 - 3(4) is what I would call "Installation".
(4)5 -7 is what I had called "Commissioning" (Inbetriebnahme). You call it "Configuration".

(I hope this explanation is better suited for understanding. Don't know why I didn't think earlier on this way >:(  Sorry)

Me think, since I do already a (basic) "Configuration" on step 2, I am puzzled why I should call 4-7 Configuration too.
That's why I always look for a short, pregnant term like Inbetriebnahme/Commissioning  :huh: Do differ this both configurations.


How sounds "initial startup" for step 4-7?        :)

.

TaoPhoenix

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2014, 02:39:47 PM »

How sounds "initial startup" for step 4-7?        :)

Yeah, that sounds pretty good to me, if you really want to have two terms. I can also see that because there is both the main controller app and the device app modules, you have two configuration phases.


Curt

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2014, 04:52:57 PM »
why invent the wheel again?  The list of German software makers is pretty long - download similar programs and install them twice; once per language.


Tuxman

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Re: "English" <> "German" translations
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2014, 04:59:08 PM »
Microsoft has translation databases for common technical terms.  :)
http://www.microsoft...-US/Terminology.aspx