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Last post Author Topic: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one  (Read 7007 times)

40hz

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Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« on: July 30, 2013, 01:26:53 PM »
Well...the long awaited verdict is in. See article here.

The quick skinny: guilty on 17 counts in full, guilty on 4 counts as amended. (Manning had agreed to plead guilty on 10 of the 22 counts filed against him.)

Minor miracle: NOT guilty on charges of "aiding the enemy" which was the only capital offense on the list. (Probably more because the government flat out refused to say who "the enemy" might be in Manning's case claiming it was "secret." That was a point which became ludicrously untenable for the prosecutors to make stick - for obvious reasons.)

Sentencing hearing is set for August 1st. The government has announced there is a long list of witnesses wishing to testify at the sentencing hearing.

A quick glance seems to indicate the maximum sentence for all 21 counts totals up to 85 years (less any allowance for time already served) if they're to be done sequentially. Informed legal observers are betting a 35 to 50 year sentence will ultimately be handed down.

« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 01:36:14 PM by 40hz »

Renegade

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2013, 10:48:45 PM »
That was a point which became ludicrously untenable for the prosecutors to make stick - for obvious reasons.

Which has always stopped them in the past! :D

He really should have been tried here in Australia. Lots of kangaroos to help set the atmosphere better. ;)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

4wd

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2013, 01:52:46 AM »
He really should have been tried here in Australia. Lots of kangaroos to help set the atmosphere better. ;)

Does that mean you haven't eaten them all?

Renegade

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2013, 06:24:52 AM »
He really should have been tried here in Australia. Lots of kangaroos to help set the atmosphere better. ;)

Does that mean you haven't eaten them all?

I was working really hard on it, but man... kangaroo is worse than 50 espressos - you get really jumpy! :P NOM NOM NOM~! :D

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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

mouser

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2013, 03:11:30 PM »
[note from administrator of the forum:

Long time and beloved DC forum member Josh, who is a moderator, made a harsh post in this thread that he soon regretted, and he quickly deleted it along with a couple of brief replies to it from other members.

The deleted posts were uninteresting and unimportant, but moderators should not delete posts by people that are not spam.  If anyone feels like they've posted something they regret, the solution is to edit your post and explain it -- and contact us or the people who have replied to ask that they modify their replies as well.

Never just delete discussions after they have taken place.

Josh meant no harm, but he has voluntarily stepped down from moderating the forum for the time being.]


wraith808

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Renegade

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2013, 09:51:16 AM »
Manning falls on his sword.

I don't think anyone can possibly imagine the pressure he's been under. How many years of methodical torture? Can anyone begin to imagine the sense of desperation he must be feeling?
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

wraith808

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2013, 11:28:44 AM »
That's why I said falls on his sword.  Do you *really* think that *all* of those Romans weren't urged to kill themselves?  What about coming into your office and finding a gun on the table.  

I did like the one dig he got in, however:
Quote
"Those factors are clear to me now, through both self-refection[sic]  during my confinement in various forms, and through the merits and sentencing testimony that I have seen here.

Another one that shows his level of depression, however:
Quote
In one line certain to upset those who believe Manning made a positive difference by leaking the documents, he said he now looks back at his decisions and wonders "how on earth could I, a junior analyst, possibly believe I could change the world for the better".

zridling

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2013, 09:16:51 PM »
From Nuremberg to Manning, the US government/Justice Department just made the case in favor of the Nazis. "I was just following orders! I had no duty to report human rights crimes that I witnessed or was ordered to participate in."

Slow clap for the evil bastards. You can now rewrite the history books and explain how the world was wrong to oppose the Nazis. Manning's a hero, as is Snowden. That's the people's verdict, and always will be.

40hz

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2013, 10:08:58 PM »
Nothing is more vindictive than a hypocrite and liar being caught out by his/her own hypocrisy and lies.

Our current regime has been caught out.

Expect neither justice nor mercy for Mr. Manning.


Renegade

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2013, 10:24:26 PM »
From Nuremberg to Manning, the US government/Justice Department just made the case in favor of the Nazis. "I was just following orders! I had no duty to report human rights crimes that I witnessed or was ordered to participate in."

Slow clap for the evil bastards. You can now rewrite the history books and explain how the world was wrong to oppose the Nazis. Manning's a hero, as is Snowden. That's the people's verdict, and always will be.

Yep.

Spoiler
bombsoverlibya-freedom-democracy.jpg

'Cause that's how we roll here in 'DC!


Nothing is more vindictive than a hypocrite and liar being caught out by his/her own hypocrisy and lies.

Our current regime has been caught out.

Politics 101 in BASIC:

10 Lie
20 Deny
30 Punish
40 Goto 10

Expect neither justice nor mercy for Mr. Manning.

What are these things "justice" and "mercy"? I'm now getting 404's...
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2013, 12:06:13 AM »
And Techdirt has the humour and irony in it all:

http://www.techdirt....actually-cause.shtml

Quote
Bradley Manning Apologizes For The Harm Everyone Admits He Didn't Actually Cause
...
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

hhdawrs

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2013, 10:01:10 PM »
Hi, Renegade

I wasn't aware Manning had been tortured.  Can you point me to the details?  BTW, "some of my best friends are Australians", from the years 'Razorback Railway', a great rail sim was programmed by Larry Lewis until it just got too frustrating and costly trying to work with 'Steam' et al  : :-\
Aloha,

'erbie

Renegade

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2013, 10:23:31 PM »
Hi, Renegade

I wasn't aware Manning had been tortured.  Can you point me to the details?  BTW, "some of my best friends are Australians", from the years 'Razorback Railway', a great rail sim was programmed by Larry Lewis until it just got too frustrating and costly trying to work with 'Steam' et al  : :-\

Really? I kind of thought that it was common knowledge. Lots of stories on it in the MSM and alternative media as well:

http://www.theguardi...inhuman-treatment-un
http://rt.com/usa/br...ning-torture-un-727/

Tonnes more out there as well.

https://duckduckgo.c...dley+manning+torture

However, if you ask his captors, nothing they do is torture. They just define whatever they like as "not torture". I saw an interview with a former Navy Seal who was water boarded as part of his training, and was clear that water boarding is torture, which according to US "authorities", isn't. Go figure.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

wraith808

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hhdawrs

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2013, 01:42:22 AM »
Manning's 'torture' sounds like a watered down version of Marine Corp training at Camp Pendleton in the day when volunteers had enough pride and self-discipline to want to tough it out instead of drowning in self-pity.  The quoted sources are obviously biased. 

They took away his glasses?  Maybe because they can be used to commit suicide?  The media would really revel in that. 

Is Solitary Confinement torture?  It also keeps other prisoners from getting to Manning.  Might have helped him when you consider his waffling on what gender he is. 
Aloha,

'erbie

Renegade

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2013, 02:05:21 AM »
Manning's 'torture' sounds like a watered down version of Marine Corp training at Camp Pendleton in the day when volunteers had enough pride and self-discipline to want to tough it out instead of drowning in self-pity.

He was put in solitary, stripped naked, and woken up once an hour "to ensure his safety". Sleep deprivation will do very bizarre things to people. But I don't know much more than that.

Might have helped him when you consider his waffling on what gender he is.

I don't see how that would have anything to do with a bunch of grown men stuck around other grown men wanting to strip another grown man down buck naked, then throw him in a small, confined cell where they can watch him. Seems kind of perverse to me.

The quoted sources are obviously biased.

I think it's pretty hard to find unbiased sources. Reading through a broad cross-section of sources helps to get a better picture. e.g. Adding in Press TV and similar sources helps. AP and Reuters are pretty much clones of each other.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

wraith808

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2013, 08:05:01 AM »
^ Yeah... we might want to calm that part of things down... it seems headed for basement territory.  Some people view it as torture or unreasonable punishment, especially in light of the fact that he'd not been convicted of anything and this is the US.  Some don't, and view it as just desserts of a traitor.  Let's... leave it at that.

Renegade

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2013, 08:51:15 AM »
^^ I thought I was pretty calm. ;D  :-[ (Dropping it either way.)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

hhdawrs

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2013, 01:48:29 PM »
It was indeed calm.  So much so that I join Renagade's drop it. :Thmbsup:
Aloha,

'erbie

Renegade

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2013, 10:44:14 AM »
Sentenced to 35 year for exposing criminality.

No good deed will go unpunished. Altruists, please kill yourselves.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

wraith808

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2013, 12:07:47 PM »
While I do think it's true that he indiscriminately released documents that would not fall under the whistleblower category... the one that would seems like it would have been enough to forgive for the others (if only partially).

hhdawrs

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2013, 01:04:15 PM »
Exposing one's self just isn't the same anymore. 8)
Aloha,

'erbie

Renegade

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2013, 06:41:26 PM »
Exposing one's self just isn't the same anymore. 8)

Hahahaaha! ;D
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

hhdawrs

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Re: Manning Verdict in: guilty on all counts but one
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2013, 09:57:44 PM »
Moderation in all things, lad.  Sorta like hollering Fire in a crowded theater?  An occasional titter, so to speak :-[, is good for the morale.   
Aloha,

'erbie