topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • August 22, 2018, 02:18 AM
  • Proudly celebrating 13 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Author Topic: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?  (Read 506 times)

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,134
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« on: July 25, 2018, 01:04 PM »
Hi,

This morning I woke up to a computer that was turned on - "oh great, Windows Update resumed from standby again, and even did it in spite of me turning off wake timers". That would have been a minor annoyance to start the day with, unfortunately it also turned out the image file backing my persistent ramdisk had been corrupted, and I had forgotten to add the folders on it I cared about to my backup set.

I'm sick and tired of the forced reboots in general, it's ******* bad attitude of Microsoft not allowing power users to turn them off, and that they're forced even when applications have unsaved data and tell Windows that they're not ready to shut down really ought to bring a class action lawsuit. Oh, and the

I could almost live with the forced reboots, except that windows update ******* resumes the device from standby in order to do the reboots. Yes, even though I've modified the power plan settings to not allow wake timers. This is... I mean, it's beyond contempt for us users.

I've tried several solutions in the past, like disabling orchestration services, deleting the UpdateOrchestrator task files, deleting the content of the task files and removing ACLs for even the SYSTEM user to the files, et cetera -they always get recreated at some point in time during a system update.

So... are there any existing solutions to bloody STOP this insanity from happening? Any gpedit policies (that don't require enterprise edition of Win10) and actually work?

Or do I have to write a tool that continually scan for the task files and delete them if they're re-added, check for the reboot dialog box and try to cancel it, etc?

Yeah, I guess Windows only resumes from standby, not poweroff - but I prefer standby for my desktop machine, so I can just pick up where I left off.
- carpe noctem

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 9,653
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2018, 01:25 PM »
Yeah... I looked into this a while ago.  The only ways are (a) by policy because businesses wouldn't put up with this and MS knows it or (b) some 3p solution.  I've tried a few.  The only one that sticks is deleting the task.  I even tried using their settings in the registry- and they changed them.  I was getting close to creating some custom way to monitor for those tasks, as I saw that they'd been added even after I removed them, added a bogus task and then locked that one from access.  I think the task removal is all that's required from my use of it, but who knows.

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,134
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2018, 01:28 PM »
I believe the necessary policies only work on enterprise versions, not even pro versions >_<

Removing the task files are not enough, they get re-created. The same goes for setting all ACLs to deny access, Windows will eventually go "Lol, I'm LOCALSYSTEM, bitch, what are you gonna do about it?" and reset/recreate the ACLs.
- carpe noctem

Deozaan

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Points: 1
  • Posts: 8,494
    • View Profile
    • The Blog of Deozaan
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2018, 03:27 PM »
I have two computers running Windows 10.

One of them, from the beginning of time, has always woken up from sleep at the same time every day, ground the hard drive for several minutes, and then gone back to sleep.
The other one has never been woken up from sleep to install updates or whatever, as far as I can tell.

I have no idea what the difference is between the two machines to explain why it would happen on one but not the other.

KodeZwerg

  • Member
  • Joined in 2018
  • **
  • Posts: 135
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2018, 04:51 PM »
Hello Sir, did you tried all THIS methods?

In my (bad english) words:
Turn Auto-Updates OFF from System Settings and Configure Network Connection as "metered" <<< MOST IMPORTANT!
More is not needed and works 100% for me since day 1.

If above does for some reason do not work for you, i can search my eMails for a "block all microsoft" firewall rule.
Afterwards no telemetry etc is sended and you can not argue with Microsoft Services anymore (like Cortana and such)

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 9,653
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2018, 09:51 PM »
I believe the necessary policies only work on enterprise versions, not even pro versions >_<

Removing the task files are not enough, they get re-created. The same goes for setting all ACLs to deny access, Windows will eventually go "Lol, I'm LOCALSYSTEM, bitch, what are you gonna do about it?" and reset/recreate the ACLs.



I mean making something to run resident that checks for the task files being created, and deleting them again.  It worked for a while; I had that folder locked down and had created another bogus task with the same name that did nothing, and locked that down.  It worked until one of the big updates, but hasn't worked since then.

Hello Sir, did you tried all THIS methods?

I've tried all of them other than the metered connection bit.  I was just skeptical about other ramifications and not fed up enough to do it.  I'm trying it now, though.

4wd

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 4,931
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2018, 10:42 PM »
FWIW, my main computer that's turned off overnight and is at v1803, (with pending updates from June):
2018-07-26 12_33_09-Settings.pngHow to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?

I only seem to get notifications for updates, (well, I used to, all notifications have been turned off), and every so often I'll go through the list of pending downloads and install them with WUMT.

I have another that's on 24/7 and is still sitting at v1709, No deferrals set and on the Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted), (it's got updates for v1709 and v1803 as pending downloads):
2018-07-26 13_27_50-Settings.pngHow to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 9,653
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2018, 11:28 PM »
But you have to have Pro to do that, don't you?

4wd

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 4,931
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2018, 12:04 AM »
But you have to have Pro to do that, don't you?

If you mean to run the Group Policy Editor then yes, all my computers run Pro, (Home doesn't have RDP Host).

However, all the settings are available in the registry for which MS have made available an Excel spreadsheet for lookup.

Whether Home will honour the settings or not I can't tell you but you can try - best case is it works, worst case is it ignores them.

2018-07-26 14_53_16-Local Group Policy Editor.pngHow to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?

KodeZwerg

  • Member
  • Joined in 2018
  • **
  • Posts: 135
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2018, 01:40 AM »
Hello again, i did not found eMail, but a link with similar content to block Microsoft Servers.
Stop Windows 10 spying on you using just Windows Firewall

Hope it helps, take care!

edit
Attention!
Above is not mentioned to be (mis-)used by beginners since it go systemdeep without restore!! You must know what you do!

Shades

  • Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 2,355
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2018, 09:35 AM »
Hello again, i did not found eMail, but a link with similar content to block Microsoft Servers.
Stop Windows 10 spying on you using just Windows Firewall

Hope it helps, take care!

edit
Attention!
Above is not mentioned to be (mis-)used by beginners since it go systemdeep without restore!! You must know what you do!

Firewall rules? Those are not "systemdeep" and they can be disabled or removed with a few mouse clicks when you use the standard Windows Firewall interface. There are 3rd party tools that make working with the Windows Firewall even simpler.

Generally speaking, do understand that blocking rules in a firewall can have consequences for some functionality in the operating system. The article in the link above discusses a list of IP addresses and domain names that Microsoft uses for all their telemetry and provides a batch script to create and apply Windows firewall block rules. Not more, not less.

However, Microsoft cycle through their (pretty extensive) list of IP addresses and domains, so this list needs very frequent updates. Because an IP address may block a telemetry server today, but could be blocking access to Cortana or Bing or Windows Update or Skype tomorrow.

That last part causes confusion with lots of users, especially those who are not too familiar with networking/use of firewalls. As it is, these firewall block rules are not that effective as a solution, because of the IP address cycling, but also because because services with a domain name the starts with 'telemetry' can just as well handle (some) traffic from Skype or any other cloud service provided by Microsoft for that matter.

If you are not entrenched in those services and have a local user account on your Windows 10 installation, you can more or less safely use the provided Firewall block rule list, disable those rules once a month for doing Windows updates and when your system is up to date, enable the block rules again.

It would even be better if you have a hardware based dedicated firewall device where you apply these block rules. Than you can be sure those rules are not circumvented by anything Microsoft alters on your Windows system. A simple spare/old PC with at least 2 network cards, in combination with software like 'OPNSense' or 'pfSense' can already be used as a hardware based dedicated firewall device. Both software packages provide much, much more services than just a firewall, but you don't have to use these. Best of all, 'OPNSense' and 'pfSense' are open source and can be used free of charge, have active forums that provide a lot of help and if you require it, offer their support for a fee. 'pfSense' even sells hardware boxes with their software pre-installed and configured.

KodeZwerg

  • Member
  • Joined in 2018
  • **
  • Posts: 135
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2018, 11:22 AM »
I wanted to give a warning out before bad things happen to unexperienced Windows Users. In past that point i missed to write, so take care what you do.
Unexperienced run blind the batch and wonder why certain Windows-Things may suck afterwards.

For me it was always enough to configure No-Auto-Update with metered Network setting.

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 9,653
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2018, 05:37 PM »
As if by magic:

https://www.ghacks.n...cted-update-reboots/

However, I'd still rather have control rather than a DS Model predicting my behavior...

f0dder

  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,134
  • [Well, THAT escalated quickly!]
    • View Profile
    • f0dder's place
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2018, 06:02 PM »
Right,

Disabling updates is not an option. Making updates non-automatic might work, but is a poor option.
I don't want to have to remember to go and check for + install updates - I want it to be a fairly automatic process.

wraith808: that link is just Microsoft really, really, REALLY not getting what people are complaining about >_<
- carpe noctem

rgdot

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 2,079
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2018, 07:18 PM »
Realized Win10 (Pro only?) has a setting to defer updates for 35 days. MS really have no clue, what's the point of 35 days specifically...

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 9,653
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2018, 10:25 PM »
wraith808: that link is just Microsoft really, really, REALLY not getting what people are complaining about >_<

Oh, I know.  I guess I should have put /s on the end of my statement.   :-\

KodeZwerg

  • Member
  • Joined in 2018
  • **
  • Posts: 135
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2018, 11:48 PM »
Right,

Disabling updates is not an option. Making updates non-automatic might work, but is a poor option.
I don't want to have to remember to go and check for + install updates - I want it to be a fairly automatic process.

wraith808: that link is just Microsoft really, really, REALLY not getting what people are complaining about >_<
In my case (Auto-Update OFF / metered connection) i use WSUS Offline Update to do such action.
= How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10? = solved with that. Or am i wrong?

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 9,653
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10?
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2018, 08:06 AM »
Right,

Disabling updates is not an option. Making updates non-automatic might work, but is a poor option.
I don't want to have to remember to go and check for + install updates - I want it to be a fairly automatic process.

wraith808: that link is just Microsoft really, really, REALLY not getting what people are complaining about >_<
In my case (Auto-Update OFF / metered connection) i use WSUS Offline Update to do such action.
= How to REALLY stop ******* Windows Update on Win10? = solved with that. Or am i wrong?

I tried that, and found that there are side effects that aren't immediately obvious.  The one that I saw (thankfully before it became an issue) is that my syncing software for my backups stopped syncing because of the change.  With this in mind, I switched mine back.