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Last post Author Topic: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.  (Read 146298 times)

40hz

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So it begins. This from ArsTechnica (full article here):

Quote
On Friday, former NSA contractor Edward Snowden was formally charged by the United States government with espionage, theft, and conversion of government property in a sealed criminal complaint in the Eastern District Court of Virginia. According to the Washington Post citing anonymous sources, the United States has also asked Hong Kong to detain Snowden on a “provisional arrest warrant.”
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Some Hong Kong legal watchers though, have wondered if Snowden’s fleeing to Hong Kong was a better choice than it might seem at first blush. Apparently, the High Court in the quasi-city-state has issued an order requiring the government to create a new procedure to consider asylum applications. Until such a procedure is achieved, asylum seekers can ostensibly stay indefinitely.

"If it comes to the point where the US does issue a warrant on Snowden, and then passes it over to the Hong Kong authorities, and he decides to fight it, at this point it would be a court case," Nicholas Bequelin of Human Rights Watch told GlobalPost earlier this month. "And it can be a long court case, going up to the court of final appeals."

Lawyers who spoke to the Post concurred. "Any court battle is likely to reach Hong Kong’s highest court and could last many months," noted the Post. Hong Kong also has a clause in its extradition treaty with the US which states that suspects can't be turned over for offenses with a "political character." Espionage has traditionally been treated as such an offense.

<more>

Be very interesting to see how this plays out since politics and economic considerations will no doubt play heavily into this case.

Snowden's ultimate disposition could very easily (and likely will) become a bargaining chip in a larger set of negotiations over state-sponsored cyberhacking "understandings" and economic treaties.

In some respects, Snowden was wise to opt for Hong Kong and not go to Iceland since it would be considerably easier (and of far less political consequence) for him to be forcibly "extracted" (i.e. kidnapped) from Reykjavík than it would Hong Kong or Bejing. Iceland has little the United States wants. And much of Northern Europe is already playing ball with Washington over going after file sharing sites, blocking Pirate Bay, and conducting aggressive police enforcement actions over IP claims.

In the end, I think it's going to come down to a question incentives and the appearance of independence.

Hong Kong will not want to appear to be dancing to Washington's tune. But there may be some carrots (trade treaties, lifting of certain import restrictions, more liberal labor offshoring or tech import rules, etc.) that could be dangled as an enticement for Hong Kong's courts to find an argument for why Snowden should be returned.

Who knows? Maybe China has a few spies of it's own in US custody they would like to get back. Prisoner exchanges are not unusual in that context.

Washington really can't lose at this point. Whatever damage Snowden may or may not have caused - it's done already. It works out for Washington either way. If the US gets him back, they'll try him. If they don't, he'll be made the next Edward Lee Howard and become the 'poster child' justification for even more intrusive laws to protect national security. Because if political asylum is ultimately granted, that will only serve as 'proof' in some quarters that Snowden was working as a spy for China all along.

Since there's little practical upside (other than showing China won't be bullied) for keeping Snowden, I'm fairly certain he will ultimately be handed back to the USA at some point to face charges. Whether he is officially handed over by Hong Kong as part of a court judgment or brokered deal - or he just blacks out one fine morning and wakes up in some secret detention center half a world away - makes little difference. In the long run, he's had it.

Because no major government can afford to tolerate somebody they want be allowed to remain at large if that person's location is known. It's simply too embarrassing.

screwed.jpg



app103

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2013, 01:47:52 PM »
Satire, but it's spot on.  :D

U.S. Seemingly Unaware of Irony in Accusing Snowden of Spying

Quote
The United States government charged former intelligence analyst Edward Snowden with spying on Friday, apparently unaware that in doing so it had created a situation dripping with irony.

At a press conference to discuss the accusations, an N.S.A. spokesman surprised observers by announcing the spying charges against Mr. Snowden with a totally straight face.

“These charges send a clear message,” the spokesman said. “In the United States, you can’t spy on people.”

Seemingly not kidding, the spokesman went on to discuss another charge against Mr. Snowden—the theft of government documents: “The American people have the right to assume that their private documents will remain private and won’t be collected by someone in the government for his own purposes.”

“Only by bringing Mr. Snowden to justice can we safeguard the most precious of American rights: privacy,” added the spokesman, apparently serious.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2013, 01:55:33 PM »
Hong Kong will not want to appear to be dancing to Washington's tune. But there may be some carrots (trade treaties, lifting of certain import restrictions, more liberal labor offshoring or tech import rules, etc.) that could be dangled as an enticement for Hong Kong's courts to find an argument for why Snowden should be returned.

Oh brilliant...once again the American people get to take it in the ass for "National Security" as more jobs get exported just to crucify one poor bastard that was only trying to help.

Edward Snowden is a true American patriot, and anyone to stupid to understand that should be deported (or shot).

cmpm

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2013, 03:32:15 PM »
It's absurd to proceed further and prosecute on any kind of illegal "hacking" charge. That is a govern'mental' wimp charge with the only intent being to distract from the real issue. Make these political weasels fess up to their own criminal actions.

edit- "illegal "hacking" charge"

Whatever form of getting the info should not be the central issue and lay the blame on anything to do with computers or other way of communicating. The media of the delivering or gathering of the info is not the issue.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 03:44:41 PM by cmpm »

40hz

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2013, 08:58:46 PM »
Excellent post on the Volokh Conspiracy blog (it's not about what you think btw) about why Snowden did not commit treason despite some politicos and justice department apparatchiks saying he did.

Quote
Contrary to the claims of some politicians and others who should know better, Edward Snowden did not commit treason. Treason is a specific crime defined in the Constitution, and it is particularly difficult to prosecute. As Seth Lipsky wrote in the WSJ this week:

    Treason turns out to be unique in American law. It is the only crime that the Constitution forbids Congress from defining. It is the only crime to which a court may never accept a confession given to the police. It is the only crime for which restrictions are laid down on how much evidence juries must hear. The Constitution itself underscores that the Founders feared treason law. . . .

Read the rest here.

40hz

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2013, 05:44:01 AM »
The next move in the chess game has been played...

landu.jpg

This from the BBC (link here):

Quote
23 June 2013 Last updated at 05:53 ET

US intelligence fugitive Edward Snowden has flown out of Hong Kong, from where the US was seeking his extradition on charges of espionage.


He left voluntarily for a third country, a government statement said.

The South China Morning Post quoted "credible sources" as saying he was due to arrive in Moscow later on Sunday.

Snowden, an intelligence analyst, fled to Hong Kong in May after revealing details of extensive internet and phone surveillance by US intelligence.

"Mr Edward Snowden left Hong Kong today (June 23) on his own accord for a third country through a lawful and normal channel," the Hong Kong government said in a statement.

On Saturday, the White House contacted Hong Kong to try to arrange his extradition, but the territory's administration now says the documents submitted by Washington did not "fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law".

As a result, Hong Kong says it requested further information from the US government.

However, the statement goes on: "As the HKSAR Government has yet to have sufficient information to process the request for provisional warrant of arrest, there is no legal basis to restrict Mr Snowden from leaving Hong Kong."

The statement says Washington has been informed of Hong Kong's decision.


Vash khod
, Washington...

wraith808

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2013, 06:59:10 AM »
This is playing out like a movie...  I'd be grabbing the popcorn if not for the fact that this hits so close to home  :-\

40hz

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 02:04:01 PM »
The next few moves in the game have now been played:

alice3.jpg

From ArsTechnica (full article here)

Spoiler
Quote
Assange: Snowden is en route to Ecuador and “in a safe place” for now
On conference call, Assange also says Snowden's materials are secured.
(MP3 available)

During a Monday morning conference call, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said that National Security Agency (NSA) leaker Edward Snowden’s digital trove of leaked documents and materials was “secured by the relevant journalistic organizations prior to travel.”

Assange's comments could suggest that The Guardian and the Washington Post—where Snowden previously leaked information—are now in possession of his entire cache. Ars asked The Guardian and the Post to confirm this but did not receive an immediate reply.

This morning's call was arranged shortly after it was revealed that Snowden was not on an Aeroflot flight from Moscow to Havana. Assange would not disclose Snowden’s location, so his whereabouts remain unknown. (Both White House and Ecuador representatives believe Snowden is currently in Russia.) Ars has made a complete recording of the call available as an MP3 or through a stream below.

“We are aware of where Mr. Snowden is,” he said. “He is in a safe place, and his spirits are high due to the bellicose threats coming from the US administration—we cannot go into details as this time.”
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During the question-and-answer period, BBC reporter Paul Adams challenged Assange. Adams noted the “obvious irony" of trying to cooperate with the Chinese and Russian authorities: "Given their problematic relationship with the values of privacy and freedom of speech that you hold dear—and if Edwards Snowden ends up in Ecuador—doesn’t the same irony pertain? I wonder: are you simply involving those countries because they're happy to stick one in the eye of the United States rather than upholding those values that you represent?"

Assange replied to start a quick back-and-forth:

    “I simply do not see the irony. Mr. Snowden has revealed information about mass, unlawful spying which has affected every single one of us. The US administration has issued a series of bellicose, unilateral threats against him and against others who are attempting to support his rights. That is a very serious situation and any country that assists in upholding his rights must be applauded for doing so.”

              “Even when they don’t uphold those rights for their own citizens?” Adams asked.

    “That's another matter. In these cases, we do not criticize people for seeking refugee status in the United States despite its use of torture, drone strikes and executive kill lists and so on. No one is suggesting that countries like Ecuador are engaged in those types of abuse.”




From BBC (full article here)

Spoiler
Quote
Edward Snowden: US warns Russia and China


US Secretary of State John Kerry has said it would be "disappointing" if Russia and China had helped US fugitive Edward Snowden evade US attempts to extradite him from Hong Kong.

Speaking during a visit to India, Mr Kerry said there would inevitably be "consequences" to such a move.

Mr Snowden flew from Hong Kong to Moscow on Sunday.

A seat was booked in his name on a flight to Cuba on Monday morning, but he is not thought to have boarded.

He has applied to Ecuador for political asylum, but the country's foreign minister has implied he is still in Russia.

And speaking at a news briefing later on Monday, White House spokesman Jay Carney said: "It is our understanding that he (Snowden) is still in Russia."

He added that senior US officials were briefing President Barack Obama regularly about all the developments.


Whatever the verdict on Edward Snowden's activities, his leaking of details of a vast US operation to access and monitor communications inevitably has serious diplomatic repercussions”
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Speaking during a visit to Delhi in India, Mr Kerry told reporters it would "be obviously disappointing if he was wilfully allowed to board an airplane".

"As a result there would be without any question some effect and impact on the relationship and consequences."

Mr Snowden is believed to have spent the night in an airside hotel at Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport. The US has revoked his passport and wants Russia to hand him over.

Mr Kerry urged Moscow to "live by the standards of the law because that's in the interests of everybody".

"In the last two years we have transferred seven prisoners to Russia that they wanted so I think reciprocity and the enforcement of the law is pretty important," he said.


And now this from Ars Technica (full article here)

Spoiler
Quote
Did Snowden’s travel plans hit a snag? Leaker fails to catch flight to Havana
Snowden's US passport has been revoked.

by Cyrus Farivar - Jun 24, 2013 2:09 pm UTC


After spending the night in Moscow’s Sheremetyevo Airport, NSA leaker Edward Snowden did not board the Aeroflot flight he had been expected to take to Havana. His plan was apparently to fly to the Cuban capital and then to go on to Ecuador (where he had requested asylum). Snowden's whereabouts remain unknown.

It may be that Snowden and his friends from WikiLeaks—who helped him secure a “special refugee travel document” last week from Ecuadorian authorities and assisted with his trip from Hong Kong to Moscow—have an alternate travel route in mind. There is also the possibility that he is being detained by Russian authorities.

The State Department had revoked Snowden’s American passport on Friday, which is normal for persons with “felony arrest warrants.”

“Such a revocation does not affect citizenship status,” Jen Psaki, a State Department spokesperson told Ars. “Persons wanted on felony charges, such as Mr. Snowden, should not be allowed to proceed in any further international travel other than is necessary to return him to the United States. Because of the Privacy Act, we cannot comment on Mr. Snowden's passport specifically."

The Washington Post pointed out that Aeroflot’s regularly scheduled flight would have taken the commercial jet over Norwegian, Canadian, and American airspace before landing in Havana: “But if the plane uses a different flight plan—north toward the Arctic and then south over the middle of the Atlantic Ocean—the Russian authorities will have directly participated in Snowden’s escape."

US Secretary of State John Kerry, speaking to reporters in India where he is on a state visit, said it would be “deeply troubling” if China or Russia had adequate notice of Snowden’s plans before his departure.

"I suppose there is no small irony here,” Kerry added. “I mean, I wonder if Mr. Snowden chose China and Russian assistance in his flight from justice because they're such powerful bastions of Internet freedom, and I wonder if while he was in either of those countries he raised the question of Internet freedom since that seems to be what he champions."


And so it goes...

Your move, Moscow.

wraith808

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2013, 02:17:26 PM »
Sometimes I'm glad that the powers that be are so willfully and utterly stupid and prideful.

There was an obvious out that they could have taken to both make themselves look better and move public opinion on the matter- and all it would cost them is a bit of face.

The documents are already leaked, right?  So catching Snowden is a matter of pride, and nothing else.

Offer him a pardon in exchange for his testifying on the Hill in committees designed to look into (and bury) the whole thing.  Make the right noises about being respectful of the 4th amendment, and things being more than they seemed and that the are concerned about privacy of the average American, and those that have contact with them.

It's quite unlikely that he would believe them.  Which would erode his position if he was unwilling to deal, since he said that was his primary goal.  If he did, he could be dealt with in court- not towards him, but towards the whole policy and the leaks, which is the larger issue.  Destroy him and his testimony from that front, and you have a win.

This way?  There's only a slim chance of winning this...

wraith808

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2013, 02:21:58 PM »
This is definitely humor.. not sure if this is silly humor, so I posted it here.

Achievement-Unlocked.jpg

Epic Troll Status: Edward Snowden

epictrollstatus.jpg

app103

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2013, 03:10:35 PM »
In related humor:

993518_628037953880783_1351258501_n.png

Carol Haynes

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2013, 05:39:47 PM »
LOL - spot on.

Next step will be to start extradition on sex charges, terrorism or anything else they can dream up.

When are the American people going to stand up and say 'not in our name' .... 'no more'.

Beggars belief (but then so does the UK for knowing using all this stuff illegally too).

Ashamed to say my MP is William Hague, the UK Foreign Secretary. His response was 'nothing to worry about if you haven't done anything wrong'. Isn't that almost the definition of a Totalitarian State?

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2013, 06:54:56 PM »
Next step will be to start extradition on sex charges, terrorism or anything else they can dream up.

When are the American people going to stand up and say 'not in our name' .... 'no more'.

I dunno, the "mood" of this one feels different. They can't make a sex charge the *only* one. That's got shades of Clinton all over it. Guy says "Hai, I hav ur secrets from the nsa, naanaaa", They can't switch to the sex angle this time because it's too close to home. So they are certainly trying to spin him as a terrorist, but it's different.

Watch it be another 3 year campaign to spill over into the elections!

:o


40hz

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2013, 07:20:15 PM »
Next step will be to start extradition on sex charges, terrorism or anything else they can dream up.

Charges? Evidence? Legal Extradition? Trial? Oh what a gentle world it would be if that were the plan.

I think it's going to be something more like rendition, full envelope intrusion, containment, and extrajudical proceedings. Remember, they now have the 'legal authority' to do these things.

And they ought to know. Because these people wrote the bloody laws which gave them such authority while this nation slept or sat around watching Dancing with the Network Stars.

I doubt this guy will ever really stand trial. If he's lucky (relatively speaking) he'll be allowed to cop a plea and be sworn to remain silent once (not if) he's taken into US custody. But I think it more likely he will 'escape' and ultimately disappear - never to be seen again. Because there is no way they'll ever want to see this guy testify - even at a closed and absolutely secret trial. Because the more that becomes known, the worse and worse it looks for those responsible.

41_larkhill_detention_centre.jpg



« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 07:30:14 PM by 40hz »

Tinman57

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2013, 07:34:16 PM »
I doubt this guy will ever really stand trial. If he's lucky , he'll be allowed to cop a plea if he's apprehended. But  I think it more likely he will 'escape' and ultimately disappear - never to be seen again. Because there is no way they'll ever want to see this guy testify - even at a closed and absolutely secret trial. Because the more that becomes known, the worse and worse it looks for those responsible.

  You can just about bet your paycheck that if it does go to trial it will be a Top Secret trial with no news of what's happening other than "Court is in session".  It may even be tried by a military or congressional tribunal because of the nature of the charges and the secret content.  They won't let just any federal judge, or jury for that matter, preside over a top secret trial.  Every person involved, from the judge to the lawyers to the court reporter, will be required to have a top secret security clearance.   :o

Stoic Joker

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2013, 07:07:38 AM »
There is one thing about this that has been bothering me...from an Administrative stand point. Yes Snowden was an admin...which means he would need access to the relevant systems to perform his job. However... as a Systems Admin, he would...or rather should not have access to the data on those systems...as it isn't necessary for the performance of his job.

As an example, I manage networks for several medical facilities. I have free and unrestricted access to their systems that allow me to verify that their Patient Health Information (PHI) is online and available. I do not however have access (e.g. any login information) for those databases ... Which acts as a protection for both them and I.

Here's the thing, years ago (e.g. pre 9/11) there was a downloadable security profile (Windows domain group policy template) that was available from the NSA. And accompanying documentation that outlined various security policies that should be in place for segregating how much of what access should be allowed at what level to prevent ... Well shit like this.

So if they already knew how to prevent...this... WTF happened?

40hz

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2013, 07:55:03 AM »
So if they already knew how to prevent...this... WTF happened?

I think you're seeing yet another manifestation of The Snafu Principle  which says: Clear and accurate communication is only possible between equals.

Because you have multiple tiers of security authorizations, with tiers and tiers of additional clearances contained within them, there's a good likelihood some key person in Snowden's administrative chain was not aware of of these policies and resources because they weren't cleared to be told about them.

That's the problem with the excessive compartmentalization and zeal for classification our government indulges in. It increases the likelihood of security holes by not allowing sufficient communication between the people that need to communicate with each other to effectively do their jobs.

It's totally ridiculous. I had a work associate who was involved in "government work." he used to laugh about the security procedures he had to comply with. The unnamed agency he worked for had a policy of automatically classifying every document it held as "Top Secret."

He had an incident where he was unable to tell a contractor about a network switch fix that absolutely needed to be made because the agency's copy of the document which detailed the fix (a document that was freely available for download from the manufacturers support website btw) had been stamped "Top Secret" - and the contractor only held "Secret" clearance.

And even more ridiculous, because the doc was "Top Secret," he couldn't even tell the contractor that an unclassified public copy was available elsewhere. He couldn't even acknowledge he knew about it.

You'd think the document's classification would have been reduced...but that's not the way these people worked. They had a policy. All agency documents were to be classed as Top Secret. Period. End of discussion. It's the friggin' policy, man! Can't you read?

The solution? After struggling with a network issue (for which there was a documented fix) for about three weeks, the agency finally realized there was a "Big Problem" with what they were currently doing. So they canned the guy they had - and hired a new contractor. This time they made sure they got one who already had Top Secret clearance.

duh.jpg

Do any of us really wonder how some of this nonsense can happen? I mean seriously? ;D
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 08:12:28 AM by 40hz »

wraith808

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 08:12:00 AM »
So is he *really* good... or *really* dead?

http://www.bbc.co.uk...orld-europe-23045790

And when I say *really* dead, I mean like these others...

MI6 Codebreaker Found Dead in Bag Was Likely Killed, Coroner Says

http://www.wired.com...der-death-foul-play/

Dead Codebreaker Was Linked to NSA Intercept Case

http://www.wired.com...8/codebreaker-death/

Two Strange Deaths in European Wiretapping Scandal
European investigators are tracking the mysterious deaths of two security experts who had uncovered extensive spyware in their telecommunications firms.

http://www.alternet...._wiretapping_scandal

The Men Who Knew Too Much? NSA Wiretapping Whistleblowers Found Dead in Italy and Greece
Adamo Bove and Costas Tsalikidis: Both uncovered a secret bugging system and both met untimely ends.

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3305

The Athens Affair How some extremely smart hackers pulled off the most audacious cell-network break-in ever

http://spectrum.ieee...ty/the-athens-affair

40hz

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2013, 08:25:55 AM »
 

CWuestefeld

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2013, 11:33:55 AM »
If Snowden is caught and brought to trial, here's what I think the next move ought to be:

Snowden should claim that everything he said previously was a lie. And there's no law against telling lies to our enemies, right?

To make its case, the government would need to prove that the stuff Snowden said really was true, thus forcing the government to admit, at the very least, the truth of Snowden's claims.

wraith808

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2013, 11:48:06 AM »
If Snowden is caught and brought to trial, here's what I think the next move ought to be:

Snowden should claim that everything he said previously was a lie. And there's no law against telling lies to our enemies, right?

To make its case, the government would need to prove that the stuff Snowden said really was true, thus forcing the government to admit, at the very least, the truth of Snowden's claims.

That increases the trolling to even more epic levels.  I LOVE IT!

Of course, without a public trial, it's not really a help... but still...

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2013, 12:14:27 PM »
If Snowden is caught and brought to trial, here's what I think the next move ought to be:

Snowden should claim that everything he said previously was a lie. And there's no law against telling lies to our enemies, right?

To make its case, the government would need to prove that the stuff Snowden said really was true, thus forcing the government to admit, at the very least, the truth of Snowden's claims.

Nah CW, that's too "programmer logical". I'll bet a buck that's not one of the many scenarios.

Apparently this guy is "sorta smart" - hence by "not entering official Russian space" (staying in the airport) and I think another story said he trolled a bunch of journalists into burning two days on a wild goose chase to Cuba, he's done a little bit of homework.

So whatever precisely the story ends up, I believe it won't just be a "hush hush now go back to TV". They have to build a bigger box than that.

Lemme try a couple of the more tinfoil theories - what if they nominally leave him alive and then use him a a new bogeyman to pass even more ugly laws?  Lemme put it this way - has anyone yet noticed a bit of a similarity to Bin Laden with a different "mood"? B.L. crashes a plane into the twin tower and a trillion dollars worth of security spending couldn't get him? But some little twerp shows off the agency surveillance program and now we think we can nail him inside of a month?!!


40hz

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2013, 02:34:34 PM »
Of course, without a public trial, it's not really a help... but still...

This lad will never come to trial if those in a position to try him have anything to say about it.

wraith808

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2013, 03:39:15 PM »
Of course, without a public trial, it's not really a help... but still...

This lad will never come to trial if those in a position to try him have anything to say about it.

Yeah... that was my point.  And if he does, it won't be in any shape or form public.  National Security, natch.

40hz

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Re: Knight to queen's bishop 3 - Snowden charged with espionage.
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2013, 04:16:11 PM »
Ok...it's 17:15 EDT on 25-Jun-2013.

Mssr. Putin has just confirmed Mr. Snowden is currently standing in the 'international area' in Moscow's airport.

The US is insisting Russia has the legal authority to expel him immediately, and is insisting they do so.