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Last post Author Topic: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested  (Read 16168 times)

Renegade

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Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« on: October 03, 2013, 12:05:37 AM »
Damn!

7jfZLgw.pngSilk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested

http://www.forbes.co...te-roberts-arrested/

Quote
Feds Say They've Arrested 'Dread Pirate Roberts,' Shut Down His Black Market 'The Silk Road'

Very disappointed...
Why can't they just mind their own business and leave people alone. Sheesh...

Maybe Atlantis will fire up again. I hope this isn't the end. More black markets is a good thing.

What I just don't get is why he would stay in the USA. That just seems crazy to me. It's not like he couldn't have moved to somewhere safer.





UPDATES:

Popehat: The Silk Road To Federal Prosecution: The Charges Against Ross Ulbricht
http://www.popehat.c...gainst-ross-ulbricht
http://www.donationc....msg339243#msg339243
- Discussion about law surrounding the issue

The Dollar Vigilante: THE SHUTDOWN THAT REALLY MATTERS: THE END OF THE SILK ROAD
http://dollarvigilan...f-the-silk-road.html
http://www.donationc....msg339253#msg339253
- A voluntarist perspective on the issue.

Blockchain Info: Seized BTC - 27,000+
https://blockchain.i...CNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX
http://www.donationc....msg339298#msg339298
- Screenshot below.

Komo News: Federal drug charges for Bellevue man involved in 'Silk Road'
http://www.komonews....&clmob=y&c=n
http://www.donationc....msg339320#msg339320
- Silk Road seller found by feds.

Lawyer for DPR on Twitter
https://twitter.com/...s/386178542926434304
http://www.donationc....msg339407#msg339407
- Not talking.

Techdirt: Not Content With Gutting The Fourth Amendment, The Government Continues Its Attack On The Fifth And Sixth
http://www.techdirt....ck-fifth-sixth.shtml
http://www.donationc....msg339414#msg339414
- Background information on system rights violations. 4th, 5th, 6th being gutted.

A Public Defender: Asking for a lawyer is not evidence of guilt
http://apublicdefend...t-evidence-of-guilt/
http://www.donationc....msg339414#msg339414
- More background on systemic rights violations.

YouTube: Back To The Future "we don't need roads"
http://www.youtube.c.../watch?v=flge_rw6RG0
http://www.donationc....msg339415#msg339415
- Humour - lolbertardian dreamworld. /r/whowillbuildtheroads

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 09:17:47 PM by Renegade »

Stoic Joker

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2013, 06:51:56 AM »
Things to note:
Quote from: The Article
The 29-year-old University of Texas graduate had first created a trail for himself, however, by asking for help working with Tor dark web tactics on coding site StackOverflow.com, the complaint says. His original question appears to remain on the site here.

...But you have nothing to hide right?? When asking a simple coding question on a coding site gets you tossed on a watch list ...Hm... Yepper things has gone way too far at a point what's well past now.

Renegade

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2013, 06:59:35 AM »
Things to note:
Quote from: The Article
The 29-year-old University of Texas graduate had first created a trail for himself, however, by asking for help working with Tor dark web tactics on coding site StackOverflow.com, the complaint says. His original question appears to remain on the site here.

...But you have nothing to hide right?? When asking a simple coding question on a coding site gets you tossed on a watch list ...Hm... Yepper things has gone way too far at a point what's well past now.

I saw that. It's spooky. And for both meanings of the word.

It was an interesting question though. My first thought was about just how easy it would be for PHP to run shell scripts kind of like how you'd do a System.Diagnostics.Process.Start(program) in C#. (I think that's the namespace...)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2013, 10:31:21 AM »
Popehat has yet another good write-up on the Federal indictment & complaint that was filed. Read it here.

Worth the read. Learned a few things about how something like this works. For instance, I didn't realize there are actually two separate mechanisms that can be used to charge somebody with a crime under US federal law. Never knew that a 'criminal complaint' and an 'indictment' are two completely separate things. Either one of wihch can land you in court.

Most interesting...

rgdot

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2013, 11:26:56 AM »
If the part of the indictment that he was actually involved in it and not just a 'platform provider' is true then of course it has be shut down. The whole issue of NSA snooping being bad is because normal, legal and fair things are being infringed upon, if we are going to get mad that a site used for various long illegal activities is shut down we are going way too far.

(Before accusing me of things remember I am using IF here)

wraith808

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2013, 11:45:38 AM »
If the part of the indictment that he was actually involved in it and not just a 'platform provider' is true then of course it has be shut down. The whole issue of NSA snooping being bad is because normal, legal and fair things are being infringed upon, if we are going to get mad that a site used for various long illegal activities is shut down we are going way too far.

(Before accusing me of things remember I am using IF here)

Legal vs. Illegal is actually a much more slippery slope than it is purported to be when they want to get you.  A phone can be used for illegal purposes.  In addition the phone company is making a profit on the arrangement of the illegal services.

rgdot

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2013, 12:13:54 PM »
If the part of the indictment that he was actually involved in it and not just a 'platform provider' is true then of course it has be shut down. The whole issue of NSA snooping being bad is because normal, legal and fair things are being infringed upon, if we are going to get mad that a site used for various long illegal activities is shut down we are going way too far.

(Before accusing me of things remember I am using IF here)

Legal vs. Illegal is actually a much more slippery slope than it is purported to be when they want to get you.  A phone can be used for illegal purposes.  In addition the phone company is making a profit on the arrangement of the illegal services.

Action and participation are  clearly different and distinguishable from any other involvement (passive, 'providing means', etc), both in law and in practical terms.
Legal vs illegal is only a slippery slope when those applying the rules are allowed to apply it the way they choose.

Renegade

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2013, 12:33:56 PM »
...if we are going to get mad that a site used for various long illegal activities is shut down we are going way too far.

(Before accusing me of things remember I am using IF here)

Here's another perspective:

http://dollarvigilan...-the-silk-road.html#

Teaser: Prohibition is the Morally Reprehensible Part, Not Buying and Selling Drugs

Spoiler
Quote
While state worshippers fret over the meaningless "shutdown" of the federal government, the supposedly inactive government violently shut down a very important and highly publicized free marketplace. National parks were closed for show, but the domestic terrorism continued from the offices of the FBI which seized the Silk Road website and arrested its alleged operator, the "Dread Pirate Roberts", Ross William Ulbricht yesterday morning.

Prohibition is the Morally Reprehensible Part, Not Buying and Selling Drugs

Let's get this out of the way first. To most of the violence-addicted authoritarians still infesting the planet, particularly the US, in overwhelming numbers, the FBI's takedown of the Silk Road is a triumph of good over evil. The mainstream media and the comments section under the pertinent articles bear this out. Most people think that it's a good thing that government tells people what they can buy to put into their own bodies. Despite the empirical evidence that prohibition of certain substances for private consumption increases usage and outright abuse while setting up violent underground markets, they still cheer on the war against people and their personal choices. They consider the resulting damage to and loss of life due to kidnapping by the government and murderous regulation among black market competitors to be worth making their personal code of conduct a matter of official gun-backed policy.


Perhaps the question is about which direction it is in that we are going too far.
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wraith808

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2013, 12:36:26 PM »
Action and participation are  clearly different and distinguishable from any other involvement (passive, 'providing means', etc), both in law and in practical terms.
Legal vs illegal is only a slippery slope when those applying the rules are allowed to apply it the way they choose.

 :-\  Really?  Who are we talking about again?  We aren't talking theory, we're talking the reality.

rgdot

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2013, 12:45:30 PM »
Example:
If I sell drugs on a site vs if I have a site that people use to sell drugs is the same to you guys now? there is a slippery slope if doing the former leads to an arrest?

(It has nothing to do with legalization by the way, I am not against that  but have yet to hear how legalization is going to be applied. Every corner store or limited sellers and where exactly those sellers are bringing their supply from...)

Renegade

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2013, 12:48:29 PM »
Popehat has yet another good write-up on the Federal indictment & complaint that was filed. Read it here.

Worth the read. Learned a few things about how something like this works. For instance, I didn't realize there are actually two separate mechanisms that can be used to charge somebody with a crime under US federal law. Never knew that a 'criminal complaint' and an 'indictment' are two completely separate things. Either one of wihch can land you in court.

Most interesting...

Curioser and curioser...

But seriously, from the article:

Quote

What's Ulbricht Charged With, Anyway?

The New York complaint charges Ulbricht with three crimes:

1. A conspiracy to...

2. A "computer hacking conspiracy"...

3. A conspiracy to...


C'mon! Everyone knows there's no such thing as a "conspiracy"! Who are these tin foil hat wearing feds anyways? Sheesh!  :P Pfft. Conspiratards! ;) 8)
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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

wraith808

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2013, 12:48:43 PM »
Example:
If I sell drugs on a site vs if I have a site that people sell drugs is the same to you guys now? there is a slippery slope if doing the former leads to an arrest?

(It has nothing to do with legalization by the way, I am not against that  but have yet to hear how legalization is going to be applied. Every corner store or limited sellers and where exactly those seller are bringing their supply from...)

Example: Someone is using telecommunications to monitor all activity.  They arrest someone based on that activity.  Does that arrest justify the fact that they spied on my innocent communications?

The ends NEVER justify the means.

tomos

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2013, 12:58:02 PM »
Teaser: Prohibition is the Morally Reprehensible Part, Not Buying and Selling Drugs

I'm almost suprised that I more or less agree with you & the author here. (Well, 'morally' has nothing to do with it for me.)

I know that the huge majority of people dont want to try heroin/or-whatever-very-addictive-drug-is-on-offer. But also that the people that do use these drugs, are the people that contribute a huge amount to 'everyday' crime levels.

Okay, so let's say we just legalise everything. Should we allow advertising then? You know how our world works....
I dunno, I was just following the idea a little - maybe the question is a bit like - who will build the roads? - but related to regulation. Refer me to a thread explaining anarchy if appropriate ;-)
Tom

rgdot

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2013, 01:17:03 PM »
Example:
If I sell drugs on a site vs if I have a site that people sell drugs is the same to you guys now? there is a slippery slope if doing the former leads to an arrest?

(It has nothing to do with legalization by the way, I am not against that  but have yet to hear how legalization is going to be applied. Every corner store or limited sellers and where exactly those seller are bringing their supply from...)

Example: Someone is using telecommunications to monitor all activity.  They arrest someone based on that activity.  Does that arrest justify the fact that they spied on my innocent communications?

The ends NEVER justify the means.

I already said (anything remotely close to) blanket snooping is wrong (see above).
But how do you think all arrests are made, I mean in other times in history? Take any case from the 20th century or whenever before the current NSA era. Listening to communication to catch bad and evil people has helped and certainly nothing new, not even a 20th century invention.

This is exactly what I am talking. In the face of an evil authoritarian and corporate take over of our world we are doing and saying things that will do nothing to improve the world, just play in the hands of those who want this world this way.


rgdot

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2013, 01:24:59 PM »
Time for me, once again, to go to the Politburo. Catch you guys later  ;)

wraith808

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2013, 03:07:48 PM »
I already said (anything remotely close to) blanket snooping is wrong (see above).
But how do you think all arrests are made, I mean in other times in history? Take any case from the 20th century or whenever before the current NSA era. Listening to communication to catch bad and evil people has helped and certainly nothing new, not even a 20th century invention.

This is exactly what I am talking. In the face of an evil authoritarian and corporate take over of our world we are doing and saying things that will do nothing to improve the world, just play in the hands of those who want this world this way.

You catch them with good old fashioned police work.  Do I think that targeted intelligence operations against people that are build upon the systemic gathering of evidence and the layering of work upon work are wrong?  No.

But do I think that spying against everyone on the chance that you will gather information from the few is wrong?  Emphatically yes.

And if people are caught using this manner, does the fact that you caught a bad person absolve you of the responsibility for using the wrong methods.  Emphatically no.

In fact, if this evidentiary trail was submitted in any reputable court of law under the rule of law, then the whole case should, by the same rule of law that you're trying them under, be thrown out.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2013, 03:57:03 PM »
In fact, if this evidentiary trail was submitted in any reputable court of law under the rule of law, then the whole case should, by the same rule of law that you're trying them under, be thrown out.

Do we actually have any reputable courts left? Judges just hate having a disappointed crowd when folks show up for a hanging only to find out the guy ain't guilty... ;)


Sorry, couldn't resist having a bit of fun. I agree with you in principal...I just fear that those ideals - put in place to protect us from tyranny by the founding fathers - are from a time that has passed.

rgdot

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2013, 04:19:51 PM »
You catch them with good old fashioned police work.  Do I think that targeted intelligence operations against people that are build upon the systemic gathering of evidence and the layering of work upon work are wrong?  No.

But do I think that spying against everyone on the chance that you will gather information from the few is wrong?  Emphatically yes.

And if people are caught using this manner, does the fact that you caught a bad person absolve you of the responsibility for using the wrong methods.  Emphatically no.

In fact, if this evidentiary trail was submitted in any reputable court of law under the rule of law, then the whole case should, by the same rule of law that you're trying them under, be thrown out.

Sorry to be blunt, you have said nothing new here and nothing I said was in disagreement with this either.

But, one thing I guarantee is this. The difference, operationally speaking, between the first two paragraphs is smaller than you think. In a big percentage of cases a wide net to search for suspects is the starting point.

wraith808

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2013, 04:25:23 PM »
But how do you think all arrests are made, I mean in other times in history? Take any case from the 20th century or whenever before the current NSA era. Listening to communication to catch bad and evil people has helped and certainly nothing new, not even a 20th century invention.

It seems from your statement, I have said something new that you seem to disagree with.  There has never been the blanket level of surveillance that we are seeing.  If you go back to the 20th century, there was even the fall of a president based upon illegal surveillance.

Now?  People would shrug and go about their business, saying it was business as usual.

You might have a wide net as far as suspects, but to get a warrant for wiretapping on each one of these suspects, and put such an operation in place is very much a check and balance on their power.  Why else do you think they want to do away with it?  If it was already par for the course, then this wouldn't be an issue.

Renegade

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2013, 09:30:42 PM »
The feds have "seized" a lot of BTC. Here's where it reportedly is:

https://blockchain.i...CNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX

Check the amount and last transaction.

Screenshot - 10_4_2013 , 12_29_44 PM.pngSilk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2013, 03:55:52 AM »
And more people being thrown in cages...

http://www.komonews....&clmob=y&c=n

Quote
Federal drug charges for Bellevue man involved in 'Silk Road'

A Bellevue man who sold drugs using an online black market known as Silk Road now faces federal drug charges, Homeland Security agents say.

According to court documents, 40-year-old Steven Sadler hid his identity using the profile "Nod," and used a fake name to purchase mailboxes at several UPS stores in Washington.

More at the link.

No matter what your own personal business is, it still is Uncle Sam's business. And don't you forget it!
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2013, 06:29:52 AM »
I'm sure it only took this long to arrest him because the FBI (and god knows who else) first wanted to be sure they had the details and names of everyone else involved. That and coordinate with other countries for arrest warrants and additional seizures.  

Regardless of your business or politics, it's not a very wise move to (allegedly) set up the contract killing of a federal witness with an undercover FBI agent.

If he's 'lucky,' they'll put him on jail. If he's unlucky, they'll turn him loose and make it a point to announce he "cooperated fully" with the investigation.

Either way, this boy is toast.




Renegade

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2013, 08:16:35 AM »
I'm sure it only took this long to arrest him because the FBI (and god knows who else) first wanted to be sure they had the details and names of everyone else involved. That and coordinate with other countries for arrest warrants and additional seizures. 

There was a product available on the Silk Road that I was thinking of buying.

And no... it wasn't heroin or coke or weed or hash or meth or some kind of narcotic. Just a simple thing that I won't bother getting into. It was innocent enough as to not warrant any kind of mention. The Silk Road had a lot more than just drugs to get high on it. Not everything on the Silk Road was illegal.

However, I'm glad I didn't buy it. My guess is that a lot of sellers and buyers will be thrown in cages now.

But, there are other markets out there. I hope they stay safe.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

rgdot

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2013, 01:00:52 PM »
Partially by my own doing and partially by the way my posts are being read I am being misunderstood I think.
I am not pro-anything like the NSA or government running people's lives but what I don't want to see is a libertarian world. Because I fear that a lot too, a whole lot.

</closing statement>

40hz

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Re: Silk Road Seized - Dread Pirate Roberts Arrested
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2013, 01:06:59 PM »
what I don't want to see is a libertarian world. Because I fear that a lot too, a whole lot.

Understandable. But what exactly is a "libertarian world" anyway? From my experience, most self-proclaimed libertarians seem to be having a good deal of trouble reaching consensus on exactly what a 'libertarian' world should look like.
 ;) ;D