Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • December 04, 2016, 08:34:28 PM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Author Topic: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small  (Read 4999 times)

cathie28

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2011
  • *
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« on: August 26, 2013, 02:23:47 PM »
Sorry, but font on SSC Options GUI (especially some parts) is incredibly small & almost unreadable for me.

Can users change the Options GUI font?
NOTE:  Size of "apparent" font in attached screen (in my Fx browser) appears a bit larger & considerably darker than actual GUI or actual capture, viewed in SSC's editor.

My vision is corrected to 20/20, but all older eyes DON'T focus as well / quickly.  This is similar to reading fine print on Credit Card agreements.

Is there a reason the overall GUI size must be so limited, forcing such tiny font?

Please increase Options GUI size & font size to something everyone can read.  Option to choose one's own font name, size would be very nice, as many apps do for GUIs.
Thanks.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 04:59:01 PM by cathie28 »

worstje

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 571
  • The Gent with the White Hat
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font incredibly small
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 02:46:17 PM »
The font size looks decent to me, but I notice the caption bar is larger than usual on your system. This makes me think you've increased the DPI on your system so you get larger letters throughout. Thus, rather than forcing letters to always be tiny, it is a simply matter of the UI not having the capability to adjust alongside the dynamic nature of bigger letters (which involves testing whether stuff will disappear off-screen, wraps to the next line, buttons suddenly being too small for their contents, ugly scrollbars appearing where you wouldn't want them, etc.)

Which makes this a typical bug of a program that does not like to play nice a DPI other than the Windows default. xD

@cathie28: There's no reason other than 'many program environments do not give much thought about playing nice with non-standard environments'. Even when a programmer uses the tools he is given, it often ends up with situations like these. (Of course, there's also situations where programmers use said tools wrongly and it is relatively trivial to fix it; I can't judge this situation one way or another given that I'm not mouser!)

With enough effort, this screen can be fixed. However, this often tends to involve a crap load of work - either by forcing said 'tools' to do stuff they weren't created to do, or by rewriting the entire screen from scratch using another method. I know several programs which have stalled exactly because rewriting screens like these is a huge chunk of time the authors do not deem worth it.

In the end, if this is indeed the root of the problem, it would be up to mouser to estimate the amount of effort involved in fixing it. It could definitely involve a lot more work than a non-programmer might think this would involve.

Vurbal

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 635
  • Mostly harmless
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font incredibly small
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 03:25:56 PM »
The first time I read a criticism of this I dismissed it initially but when I looked a little closer I actually found certain parts of the Preferences window pretty hard to read as well. I'm not sure it would be a problem if not for the relatively small dot pitch of my monitor (~0.25mm or ~102DPI).

The thing is it's not so much an issue of font size (at least for me) as character and line spacing. I had to dig around on my system to figure out another program with enough options to make a decent comparison. I ended up using Komodo Edit because it has both lists of checkbox selected options and paragraphs since I see the problem in both. I've attached 2 screenshots from Komodo Edit and 1 from Screenshot Captor to demonstrate the differences.

The line spacing, in particular, makes a big difference for me.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

cathie28

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2011
  • *
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font incredibly small
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 03:35:15 PM »
Wow, that's a mouthful.
Quote
The font size looks decent to me,

Where does it look "decent size?"  In your Actual Options screen?  Or looking at my screen shot?  I noted that AFTER my shot is attached on the forum, it makes the font looks bigger & darker than the actual GUI or the actual screen shot (when viewed in SSC)  - least, to me.  I promise, font is much smaller & lighter in actual GUI.

AND - as mentioned - some font on Options GUI is even smaller than the rest.

What do you consider a "decent size," in terms looking in a word processor, Wordpad, etc., at a similar font style, same SIZE - that's in SSC Options?
Can you type in something in Wordpad (look like Arial) & change font size till it matches SSC Options GUI?  What is the pt size that matches YOUR SSC Options GUI?

If you type in normal Arial (no bold, dark) @ 7 pts or less, in an editor / processor, is 7 pt Arial a "decent size" to you?  It's sure as hell not to me or most people my age, even w/ corrective lenses @ 20/20. 
7 pt or less is what matches my SSC Options GUI.  How old are you (rhetorical question) & how far is your nose from monitor?  Using laptop or desktop?

Yes, I increased my Windows font DPI - only to 110 (default = 96).  That works great w/ 99% of everything & I use a LOT of apps.
But, increasing DPI SHOULD make the font on Options GUI a bit larger - not smaller (if it affects it at all - it doesn't, AFAICT). 

I only recently increased Vista DPI from Default.  The font on SSC's Options GUI has ALWAYS been tiii-nyyy. 

Some apps for some GUIs ignore Windows settings (it seems).  Many increase menu & some GUI font size based on Windows settings - even based on font sizes chosen in Appearance Settings > Advanced.  Some apps ignore it all.
Quote
Thus, rather than forcing letters to always be tiny, it is a simply matter of the UI not having the capability to adjust alongside the dynamic nature of bigger letters
Not sure I understand your intent, there.  Sounds like you're saying, SSC doesn't have ability to adjust  Options GUI font based on Windows settings.  Not surprising - lots of apps can't.  If so, has absolutely nothing to do w/ Options font size being tiny in 1st place.  UNLESS you're hinting that increasing Windows DPI actually caused SSC to REDUCE its font size?  Don't think it did that (hope not - that'd be crazy).

cathie28

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2011
  • *
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font incredibly small
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 04:02:22 PM »
Verbal & worstje, thanks for replies.

Looking at your 1st screen of SSC Options, font size in the SCREEN you posted is almost 2x my actual GUI font size (easily 1.75x).  If you're actual SSC Options font really is that big, I'd be fine w/ it.  How do I get
it?

I use a 1920x1080 HD - LED monitor.  Set Windows DPI @ 110 to make fonts on most screens plenty big.
 
Yes, tightly spaced lines (w/ small font) are much harder to read; MORE SO, the older you get, EVEN if have 20/20 lenses.  Unless apps / GUIs like this are only intended for those < 40 or w/ perfect sight, 7 pt (or less), light weight, tightly spaced font is hard to read.  And on SSC Options, there's a BUNCH to read.  It makes sense to enlarge the GUI & font.  This GUI size isn't just personal taste for me - it's seriously hard to read THAT much material w/ small, tightly spaced font.

Other apps that have complicated, detailed options / config screens, mostly use considerably larger fonts & often make each "page or menu" of options, extend the entire monitor height, (or what's needed) so they don't make it so tiny and / or crowded.  Because they understand what Verbal said about line spacing (& font size) means to the older crowd or to anyone w/ SOME vision issues.

As mentioned, if anyone can tell me how to make the SSC Options GUI font bigger, I'm listening.  BUT - to do that, the GUI will need enlarging.  Yes?
I don't know who the idiot was that made it so small... Opps - sorry about that.  (I'm just kidding around). ;D

Mouser's not the son of the (or original) leader of the rock band, Mouse & the Traps, based in TX in '60's & 70's?  I jammed w/ that guy & one day, he just disappeared.  Some said he gave up music & became a great programmer...
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 04:10:30 PM by cathie28 »

worstje

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 571
  • The Gent with the White Hat
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font incredibly small
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 04:07:51 PM »
Wow, that's a mouthful.
Quote
The font size looks decent to me,

Where does it look "decent size?"  In your Actual Options screen?  Or looking at my screen shot?  I noted that AFTER my shot is attached on the forum, it makes the font looks bigger & darker than the actual GUI or the actual screen shot (when viewed in SSC)  - least, to me.  I promise, font is much smaller & lighter in actual GUI.

I was going by your screenshot. The letters don't look much different from my default DPI setup, but since my eyes are still fine that may have been a bad way of expressing myself. I've seen many websites in the past that like to use smaller text for entire paragraphs of text, so all I meant to say is 'I'm reading this and not feeling annoyed about the size being wrong compared to what I am used to'.

For the text on your screenshot being darker... does your ClearType configuration affect how it comes out any?

AND - as mentioned - some font on Options GUI is even smaller than the rest.

What do you consider a "decent size," in terms looking in a word processor, Wordpad, etc., at a similar font style, same SIZE - that's in SSC Options?
Can you type in something in Wordpad (look like Arial) & change font size till it matches SSC Options GUI?  What is the pt size that matches YOUR SSC Options GUI?

If you type in normal Arial (no bold, dark) @ 7 pts or less, in an editor / processor, is 7 pt Arial a "decent size" to you?  It's sure as hell not to me or most people my age, even w/ corrective lenses @ 20/20.  
7 pt or less is what matches my SSC Options GUI.  How old are you (rhetorical question) & how far is your nose from monitor?  Using laptop or desktop?

I'm way too tired for a comparitive measure with my own screen, typing letters and comparing them on a pixel level to see how well they match. Unless other people aren't interested in doing that by the time I get around to re-visiting this topic. :-)

For as far my screen is concerned: I've got a 1920x1200 24" screen, and if I stretch my hands out in front of me the tips of my middle fingers can barely reach my screen. (Unless I hunch over, but I'm keeping my back against the back of my chair here.)

Yes, I increased my Windows font DPI - only to 110 (default = 96).  That works great w/ 99% of everything & I use a LOT of apps.
But, increasing DPI SHOULD make the font on Options GUI a bit larger - not smaller (if it affects it at all - it doesn't, AFAICT).  

I only recently increased Vista DPI from Default.  The font on SSC's Options GUI has ALWAYS been tiii-nyyy.  

Some apps for some GUIs ignore Windows settings (it seems).  Many increase menu & some GUI font size based on Windows settings - even based on font sizes chosen in Appearance Settings > Advanced.  Some apps ignore it all.

I never meant increasing DPI would make the text smaller.  It is indeed supposed to make it look bigger. My point was that the code is probably oblivious to the concept of 'DPI', and thus renders text at a certain fixed size. Because everything else is bigger, of course this same-old-size text appears smaller. But it is the same size as before.

Not sure I understand your intent, there.  Sounds like you're saying, SSC doesn't have ability to adjust  Options GUI font based on Windows settings.  Not surprising - lots of apps can't.  If so, has absolutely nothing to do w/ Options font size being tiny in 1st place.  UNLESS you're hinting that increasing Windows DPI actually caused SSC to REDUCE its font size?  Don't think it did that (hope not - that'd be crazy).

Nope, we would seem to be in agreement (see above). However, from your screenshot, I got the impression your issue was caused by the text being small while being used to the text sizes common to the increased DPI setting. The size as it is is not a size I feel is wrong for a standard computer setting; there is a gotcha here though... one that becomes quite apparent in your Vurbal's later screenshots: the fonts used are different!

The font SSC uses is the more 'antiquated' MS Sans Serif I believe. This used to be the standard for Windows interfaces from Windows 3.1? all the way upto XP. It is optimized for smaller screens, has a plain and crisp look, and generally has its roots in the lower definition world. However, Vista and Office (some version I forgot) finally introduced a bunch of new fancy fonts which became defaults of their own right. Segoe UI is the new one which was engineered for better legibility on screens with higher definition and all that jazz. This font, at similar 'point sizes', is considerably larger (and by consequence more legible) than MS Sans Serif, which is likely another, if not the main reason that the SSC Options look so tiny in comparison.

I've got experience with both camps; many applications I use daily still have their UI rooted in the old fonts, while more modern applications have made the switch. If I compare your screenshot with some of those apps, it is exactly the same size, and I have zero problems using it. But if I compare it with those other applications, it indeed feels tinier.

Is it a problem? Kind of. The one that is most to blame is Microsoft: it is the same OS, but UI standards change from OS to OS to OS. But given the fair amount of users that are likely still relying on XP, it probably isn't feasible to switch over to a full Vista+ look either. (And two different looks is a pain to maintain.)

Finally.. I of course don't speak for mouser. I only speak for me and my personal experiences. :-)

Edit: Also, I understand that your needs require addressing. But this is likely not a simple problem. Rather than a work-around (bigger fonts), or implementing dpi scaling, the entire options window probably needs re-architecting to be less reliant on so much text and categories (Window Capturing 1 & 2? Bad UI right there.) There's a lot more wrong with the options window; this is just one of many cracks that show its age.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 04:13:47 PM by worstje, Reason: credited the wrong person for the right screenshots »

cathie28

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2011
  • *
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font incredibly small
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 04:55:01 PM »
Thanks.  Again (not sure why) - my screen shot looks better than the actual GUI.  A bit bigger & a lot darker.  Don't know about ClearType & taking screens (if that's what u meant).
Attached example Options screen from PicPick.  Much larger, or at least easier to read.

SSC has TOO MUCH info crammed into too small a space.  Either need larger screens - spread into out, or more screens - less info on each screen.

1) When I was much younger, I could read the fine print on backs of credit card offers from 2 ft. away.  That means nothing now & neither does fact that some can read  < 7 pt (crowded, NOT very dark or heavy weight) font.  Enjoy it while you can.  Trust me, unless you're exceptionally fortunate.

2) Light weight, crowded 7 pt or less font, is not "fine" to VAST majority of people > 50 (if that's what most users actually see on the GUI).  Ever see older folks looking out from UNDER their bi  / tri focals, to look at small print?  
It don't take long to open Wordpad, select Arial or MS Sans Serif, type a couple words, change it to one of these fonts & sizes.  Compare to your actual SSC Options GUI.

Now, if others are GETTING LARGER  than 7 pt on their monitors, please offer suggestions.

3) Some text on my orig. attached SSC screen, under "Default Comment" & "Available Fields" are even SMALLER than rest of the font.

Here's UNedited, actual size samples of PicPick & GreenShot Options screens.  Fonts & spacing on THEIR GUIs are "FINE."  SSC isn't.  All the screens under their options look about like this.  If they can do it, anyone can.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 05:12:06 PM by cathie28 »

mouser

  • First Author
  • Administrator
  • Joined in 2005
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,406
    • View Profile
    • Mouser's Software Zone on DonationCoder.com
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2013, 05:34:03 PM »
Ok, let me try to shed some light and offer some commentary.

First, let's start with the easy part:

You have your windows system configured to run in a large-fonts mode, presumably because it's easier for you to read text when it is a larger font.

Depending on the design of application windows, dealing with this non-standard large-font mode can present some difficulty for programmers.

Various user interface libraries have different methods of artificially scaling up the controls and dialogs to try to accommodate this non-standard large-font setting, with mixed levels of success.

For myself, I have always run into some problems somewhere when trying to scale dialogs to match the large-font settings.  Some controls which don't scale well, or some positioning issues, etc.

In the end, I have decided that because the options dialogs are rarely used (at least relatively speaking), and because the large-font mode is also rare, the best solution for my programs is to basically work-around the large font setting and ignore it -- which in effect is a little more than ignoring -- i have to manually downsize the fonts so that they are not artificially scaled up by windows.

Anyway, the point is this -- I believe i've chosen the best of some bad options when dealing with the large font issue.  I am sorry that it makes it harder for those of you who prefer large fonts to see the options as clearly as you might otherwise.

It may be an issue worth revisiting at some point, but right now it's not at the top of my priority list.

cathie28

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2011
  • *
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2013, 07:46:37 PM »
Mouser (aka, Fmr Mouse & the Traps),
Don't believe it has anything to do w/ Windows DPI setting (as I mentioned).  So, reset Windows to default 96 DPI - rebooted.  Attached is resulting SSC screen.  Didn't change SSC Options font size one iota.
SSC Options fonts have always been tiny compared to almost any app's options / config screens.  They were running under what ever the Windows DPI happened to be - at any time - & I don't know of one w/ smaller, more crowded font than SSC Options.
 
Quote
I am sorry that it makes it harder for those of you who prefer large fonts

"Prefer?"  Come on - now you're just insulting most people over 50 & anyone w/ slight eyesight issues - really.  Has nothing to do w/ preference.  The font is tiny.  There's no other way to put it.  IF... it's some OTHER setting in Windows or... I'll be happy to look at it.

After resetting Windows to 96 DPI, rechecked PicPick / GreenShot Options screens.  They're a bit smaller than before, but STILL WAY easier to read than SSC.
FORGET about "trying to rescale dialogs to match large fonts."  Don't scale ANYTHING.  TOO much info crammed into tiny spaces.  

Need to enlarge size of GUI screens;
Pick a font that doesn't cram letters together like sardines, or have character lines (strokes) ~ 2 hairs wide;
Use a slightly larger font;
Space lines slightly farther apart.
If enlarge GUI some, should be able to do this & not have to worry about scaling fonts.

BTW, notice on the shot - "Enable / Disable Toolbar Buttons, can't read most of the text.  Window too small & no horiz. scroll.


Vurbal

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 635
  • Mostly harmless
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2013, 10:19:45 PM »
After resetting Windows to 96 DPI, rechecked PicPick / GreenShot Options screens.  They're a bit smaller than before, but STILL WAY easier to read than SSC.


It sounds like you're misunderstanding the options in Windows. The DPI setting doesn't change the dot pitch (size of pixels / number of DPI). In fact if you're using a flat panel monitor nothing can change the dot pitch. It's fixed at the monitor's native (highest) resolution. It can simulate lower resolutions, but unless they're exact multiples of the horizontal and/or vertical native resolution there will be some blurring. If it's a CRT monitor you can lower the actual resolution. In either case you need to do that in the options for adjusting resolution, not DPI.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

cathie28

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2011
  • *
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 11:47:17 PM »
Don't think I'm misunderstanding anything.  Just responding to suggestions that my higher than default DPI setting had something to do w/ small font (messed up font, SSC couldn't cope scaling, what ever) in SSC Options.  It didn't / doesn't.  Someone's gotta make up their mind.

Worstje said he had a 24 in. monitor, sat > arms length from monitor & Options font was like reading N.Y. Times Headline (paraphrasing).
Which is it - the Options GUI font looks BIG on large, high res screens, or SMALL?  I'm not changing the resolution on an expensive monitor to suit one apps' GUI because it wasn't developed like most all other apps'  options / preference screens.  That would be really stupid - spend good money on a high res, HD monitor then turn it into a low res monitor.

Is that really what you think should be done to make the Options font on par w/ other apps?  Or should the dev correct it so it uses reasonable size & style font, like most every other app?  See the other screens I posted.  They're all on the same monitor, at same resolution & same DPI.  They're quite readable.  SSC isn't, because it needs work.  My monitor isn't the problem (apparently, as other apps look fine).

worstje

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 571
  • The Gent with the White Hat
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 02:30:40 AM »
After resetting Windows to 96 DPI, rechecked PicPick / GreenShot Options screens.  They're a bit smaller than before, but STILL WAY easier to read than SSC.


It sounds like you're misunderstanding the options in Windows. The DPI setting doesn't change the dot pitch (size of pixels / number of DPI). In fact if you're using a flat panel monitor nothing can change the dot pitch. It's fixed at the monitor's native (highest) resolution. It can simulate lower resolutions, but unless they're exact multiples of the horizontal and/or vertical native resolution there will be some blurring. If it's a CRT monitor you can lower the actual resolution. In either case you need to do that in the options for adjusting resolution, not DPI.


The Windows DPI thing is a weird monstrosity. The original design was for it to be flexible so that things would always be the same physical size, but pretty close to the beginning it got 'rusted' stuck in the default. (Probably because flexible UI and pretty UI are hard, especially so in those low-resolution beginnings.) In other words, it pretty much never 'matches' any hardware intentionally in the world that we know.

Changing the Windows DPI setting does not change the resolution; the amount of pixels outputted and put onto your monitor should be the same regardless. If you play with the DPI setting, the only thing that seems to really change nowadays are the sizes of fonts, because those are the only visual thing that was 'designed' with DPI in mind. (Except in certain cases like SSC, where that DPI is not taken into consideration.)

Calling it a 'DPI setting' nowadays is honestly really confusing, because it has little to do with any physical DPI anymore. The fact only very select elements can be trusted to grow/shrink along with changes to it only makes it more awkward. There is honestly one thing it is good for nowadays, and that is what cathie28 is using it for: increasing the size of fonts without needing to change the resolution.... assuming programs listen! :-(

tomos

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,320
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 03:14:34 AM »
hi Cathie, I only skimmed the thread but didnt see anywhere the size of your monitor?

Looking at your 1st screen of SSC Options, font size in the SCREEN you posted is almost 2x my actual GUI font size (easily 1.75x).  If you're actual SSC Options font really is that big, I'd be fine w/ it.  How do I get
it?

I use a 1920x1080 HD - LED monitor.  Set Windows DPI @ 110 to make fonts on most screens plenty big.

The screenshots you post and Vurbal's have exactly the same font size - but the odd thing is that his looks a *lot* clearer.

I took two screenshots -
first is comparing my options window and your's in post #1
second is comparing Vurbal's in reply #2 and mine

Vurbal's screenshot is *much* clearer than our options-shots. As I say I only skimmed the thread - did I miss something or could it be something like his clear type settings.

Screenshot - 2013-08-27 , 09_59_34.pngSSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small

Screenshot - 2013-08-27 , 10_03_45.pngSSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small


FWIW, if mouser isn't going to change it in the near future, I guess your only option to increase the font is a magnifier. In Win7 the Winkey with '+' or '-' is an easy way to zoom. Dunno if that works in Vista.
Tom

Vurbal

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 635
  • Mostly harmless
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 05:51:57 AM »
hi Cathie, I only skimmed the thread but didnt see anywhere the size of your monitor?

Looking at your 1st screen of SSC Options, font size in the SCREEN you posted is almost 2x my actual GUI font size (easily 1.75x).  If you're actual SSC Options font really is that big, I'd be fine w/ it.  How do I get
it?

I use a 1920x1080 HD - LED monitor.  Set Windows DPI @ 110 to make fonts on most screens plenty big.

The screenshots you post and Vurbal's have exactly the same font size - but the odd thing is that his looks a *lot* clearer.

I took two screenshots -
first is comparing my options window and your's in post #1
second is comparing Vurbal's in reply #2 and mine

Vurbal's screenshot is *much* clearer than our options-shots. As I say I only skimmed the thread - did I miss something or could it be something like his clear type settings.


I have ClearType turned off completely so yeah, that's probably it.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

worstje

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 571
  • The Gent with the White Hat
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2013, 06:30:00 AM »
Yes, that is indeed ClearType at work. ClearType basically uses knowledge of the physical layout of subpixels (the red, green and blue components that give a normal pixel its color) to emphasize the weight of letters. This is why, when you take a screenshot and zoom in on the pixels, the edges tend to be frayed with dull reddish, greenish or blueish shades.

Vurbal

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 635
  • Mostly harmless
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2013, 07:51:49 AM »
That's exactly why I leave it turned off. IMO it does exactly the opposite of what it's supposed to. The subpixels used to extend font edges just make it look fuzzy to me.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

tomos

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,320
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2013, 08:36:04 AM »
^I just tried without and got a fright - maybe it depends on the fonts you use and the screen dot-pitch - but I'll stick with it here ;)
Tom

Vurbal

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 635
  • Mostly harmless
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2013, 08:45:59 AM »
^I just tried without and got a fright - maybe it depends on the fonts you use and the screen dot-pitch - but I'll stick with it here ;)

I should probably have mentioned my autism drastically changes my sensory experience compared to most people. Technically it's referred to as Sensory Processing Disorder. Most people prefer clear type because their brain ignores the odd colors on font edges and only the shape correction is registered. My brain doesn't do that so it bugs me to no end.

I have the same problem with any type of highly compressed digital video. Where most people ignore most compression artifacts automatically my eyes are actually drawn to them.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

worstje

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 571
  • The Gent with the White Hat
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2013, 08:49:17 AM »
That's exactly why I leave it turned off. IMO it does exactly the opposite of what it's supposed to. The subpixels used to extend font edges just make it look fuzzy to me.

Just to make sure: ClearType is properly configured? There's a couple different layouts for subpixels (think red-green-blue or blue-green-red), and it is badly configured it can look absolutely terrible.

Besides that, I can understand liking a Cleartype-less font; it indeed does have some charms. (And compression artifacts.. depending on the kind of compression and the degree of it, I can't stand it either. But it is very situational for me.)

Vurbal

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 635
  • Mostly harmless
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2013, 10:05:44 AM »
That's exactly why I leave it turned off. IMO it does exactly the opposite of what it's supposed to. The subpixels used to extend font edges just make it look fuzzy to me.
Just to make sure: ClearType is properly configured? There's a couple different layouts for subpixels (think red-green-blue or blue-green-red), and it is badly configured it can look absolutely terrible.

Besides that, I can understand liking a Cleartype-less font; it indeed does have some charms.

I've played with the options quite a bit and even went to the trouble of verifying my monitor has RGB rather than BGR subpixel ordering. As with video compression it's all a question of which imperfections your brain can ignore. For me the answer is typically none of the above.

I also can't rule out some of the problem being with my particular monitor. The built-in gamma correction is horrendous. In order to get approximately correct colors I have to reduce the gamma to 0.8 in the ATI Vision Control Center. I've never owned a laptop with a high enough quality display to make a useful comparison.

Based on what I know about how human vision works I suspect if it were possible for my monitor to change the subpixel order, ensuring green were always on the very edge, it wouldn't be a big deal. Green frequencies account for the vast majority of our vision, followed very distantly by red, and even more distantly by blue. I never notice green edges on fonts with ClearType but red and blue edges just make characters look smeared to me.

But like I said, that's a me thing and I have the same problems with my other senses - particularly hearing and touch.

Quote
(And compression artifacts.. depending on the kind of compression and the degree of it, I can't stand it either. But it is very situational for me.)

Part of my problem with video artifacts probably stems from years spent studying and experimenting when I wrote a lot of tutorials on the subject. I usually avoid pointing them out to other people since I figure the less they see, the more enjoyable the experience will be.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

worstje

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 571
  • The Gent with the White Hat
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2013, 10:46:55 AM »
I think it might even be the case that monitor have 4 subpixels per pixel, two of which are green - exactly because of what you mention with green being the color we are most sensitive to. And yeah, I can't recall seeing green either - but I didn't want to leave that color out because I figured that would just bring new questions I have no real answers to. xD

Compression artifacts are hell. I've done some video encoding, I've done plenty of research into codecs and all that jazz.. and I just notice everything. Practically, my biggest annoyance is with JPEGs and/or other undersized wallpapers; the blurriness ruins wallpapers for me. It either has to have a native resolution matching or trumping my screen, or I can't use it. People don't get it, saying it looks fine. Really annoying. Alas, that's a different conversation entirely though. xD

Vurbal

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 635
  • Mostly harmless
    • View Profile
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: SSC 4.5 options GUI font INCREDIBLY small
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2013, 11:36:56 AM »
I think it might even be the case that monitor have 4 subpixels per pixel, two of which are green - exactly because of what you mention with green being the color we are most sensitive to. And yeah, I can't recall seeing green either - but I didn't want to leave that color out because I figured that would just bring new questions I have no real answers to. xD

The only configurations I'm familiar with for standard LCD monitors are RGB and BGR. I believe Samsung's OLED and Plasma PenTile displays use RGBG which is roughly equivalent to the chroma subsampling of YUY2. For PenTile LCD panels I'm pretty sure it's RGBW with the 4th subpixel being completely unfiltered backlight.

Quote
Compression artifacts are hell. I've done some video encoding, I've done plenty of research into codecs and all that jazz.. and I just notice everything. Practically, my biggest annoyance is with JPEGs and/or other undersized wallpapers; the blurriness ruins wallpapers for me. It either has to have a native resolution matching or trumping my screen, or I can't use it. People don't get it, saying it looks fine. Really annoying. Alas, that's a different conversation entirely though. xD

My first instinct used to be pointing the defects out. I eventually realized this is a case where ignorance is definitely bliss.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.