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Author Topic: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!  (Read 3930 times)

Renegade

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Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« on: August 05, 2013, 10:27:25 AM »
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Yeah. It's kind of like that. Thermo-nuclear 666 on crystal meth while riding rabid undead unicorn-dragon hybrids...

http://www.zerohedge...s-unprecedented-veto

Quote
See if you can spot, on the chart below, why over the weekend Barack Obama (aka the Anti Patent Troll-In-Chief) intervened directly in the ongoing patent dispute between Apple and Samsung on behalf of the Cupertino company (which makes its products in FoxConn facilities in China), resulting in an unprecedented veto of a decision from the US Interantional Trade Commission - an outcome not seen since 1987.

Additional links to more info on the topic at the link above. Just make sure to bring your holy water...
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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

wraith808

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2013, 11:58:39 AM »
I like the first comment... if it happened before, then it's not unprecedented.  :P

Renegade

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2013, 12:07:58 PM »
This comment was cute:

Quote
How did Apple donate the money to Obama?

ITUNES CREDITS?!
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2013, 12:10:02 PM »
Hardly surprising. This won't be the first time a U.S. president has intervened in full executive capacity on something that either went 'against the public interest' - or was simply something the government didn't want to allow to happen.

That is why Apple, Microsoft, the US movie and music industry, and Monsanto's business interests will always be protected by this government, come hell or high water. Just as the US will protect any other key American business if it's in an industry where the US still retains general market dominance.

Such is the way of the world.

Good TechDirt coverage of this one here.

wraith808

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 12:25:28 PM »
Quote
I was at first a bit Skeptical and Cynical about the decision by the Obama Administration to interfere with the process but I did some other reading and found this great break down of the whole dispute

http://appleinsider....n-against-apple-inc- in-pictures

and honestly I think they actually did the right thing. It looks a lot like Samsung is double dipping and not following FRAND terms.

I've been reading this elsewhere too... had to look up what FRAND meant.  So is it possible that this wasn't political... it might have that appearance, but perhaps it's also just the right thing to do?

Renegade

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2013, 12:53:41 PM »
I've been reading this elsewhere too... had to look up what FRAND meant.  So is it possible that this wasn't political... it might have that appearance, but perhaps it's also just the right thing to do?

Excuse me while I choke on a patent for a rectangle with rounded corners...

*cough*hack*wheeze*choke*puke*hack*spit*cough*

:P

333 * 2 = 666

;)

Or perhaps 222 + 222 + 222 = 666. :P

From the Apple Insider article:

Quote
The problem with paying Samsung insane fees for invalid patents that were already licensed

That is simply not accurate. Licenses are not always transferable and it is up to the licencor to determine transferability. FRAND is joke. It's just a way for companies to bitch and complain. If it weren't a joke, we wouldn't have publishers suing university students to stop them from buying books from home and selling them at school. It's a sick, sick joke.

I am *NOT* advocating the insanity. I am merely pointing it out. (As the following paragraph there does in a very muddled way.)

I probably know a hell of a lot more about Samsung internals than most of these reporters. (And I wish I could blab some about it... sigh... But I don't think that anything is really all that secret if you just look at what they are doing and have a clue about the industry.) Suffice it to say that these battles are vicious. There is blood on everyone's hands here.

This latest one though... wow... It pulls in campaign contributions. Makes me wonder what those numbers will look like in a few more years. ;D
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wraith808

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2013, 01:00:08 PM »
Oh, I'm not denying that.  It's sort of like the whole Snowden/Russia bit... the Russians did the right thing, but it was really the only move they had left it this point.  So, in the end, does that really count as the right thing?

Shades

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 01:35:21 PM »
When I read this story in he weekend on a Dutch tweakers site, the comments were juicy. The apple camp kept saying that apple needed to pay ten times more than other parties for samsung frand's. That got me thinking...Dothese other parties have frand's that Samsung uses? If so, frands can be used to say 'I don't pay for your frands, you don't pay for my frands'. If there is a difference in number of frands between parties a bonus-malus system would be reasonable. How much (relevant) frands does apple have in this case? According to the trade cmission not enough. I believe that because of this apple didn't pay anything and dod not even try to negotiate. Both sides act as little children trying toget their way. Samsung is right, but 'big brother' obully sets the market straight...I am just waiting for the bitch-slapping to be delt to each and every party in this scandal. It is seriously long overdue.

TaoPhoenix

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2013, 06:57:41 PM »
Oh, I'm not denying that.  It's sort of like the whole Snowden/Russia bit... the Russians did the right thing, but it was really the only move they had left it this point.  So, in the end, does that really count as the right thing?

Smashing memes here,
"In Soviet Russia they play chess to make you force them to make the move they want to make!"

8)

Vurbal

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2013, 12:12:48 AM »
When I read this story in he weekend on a Dutch tweakers site, the comments were juicy. The apple camp kept saying that apple needed to pay ten times more than other parties for samsung frand's. That got me thinking...Dothese other parties have frand's that Samsung uses? If so, frands can be used to say 'I don't pay for your frands, you don't pay for my frands'. If there is a difference in number of frands between parties a bonus-malus system would be reasonable. How much (relevant) frands does apple have in this case? According to the trade cmission not enough. I believe that because of this apple didn't pay anything and dod not even try to negotiate. Both sides act as little children trying toget their way. Samsung is right, but 'big brother' obully sets the market straight...I am just waiting for the bitch-slapping to be delt to each and every party in this scandal. It is seriously long overdue.

In the industrial world that's the whole patent game. They're used to form cartels to make sure nobody who isn't part of the club (or big enough to buy in) gets a seat at the table. If you have a warchest full of patents you get a cross licensing deal. If all you've got is a great product you get sued into oblivion. Samsung fully expected Apple to just buy in because that's the way the game is played. Steve Jobs thought he'd use patents the way they're supposedly intended and screwed up everything.

I've got no sympathy for either side. Steve Jobs was a brilliant CEO but also a whiny baby who was all for copying until he was the one being copied. Then it was theft. Samsung is a government backed anti-competition machine that suckers other companies into paying for their R&D as supposed partners. They break up a couple years later and Samsung gets the goldmine while their partner just gets the shaft.

Honestly they deserve each other. The problem is we don't.
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Renegade

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2013, 12:15:23 AM »
In the industrial world that's the whole patent game. They're used to form cartels to make sure nobody who isn't part of the club (or big enough to buy in) gets a seat at the table. If you have a warchest full of patents you get a cross licensing deal. If all you've got is a great product you get sued into oblivion. Samsung fully expected Apple to just buy in because that's the way the game is played. Steve Jobs thought he'd use patents the way they're supposedly intended and screwed up everything.

I've got no sympathy for either side. Steve Jobs was a brilliant CEO but also a whiny baby who was all for copying until he was the one being copied. Then it was theft. Samsung is a government backed anti-competition machine that suckers other companies into paying for their R&D as supposed partners. They break up a couple years later and Samsung gets the goldmine while their partner just gets the shaft.

Honestly they deserve each other. The problem is we don't.

Yes! THAT! +1! ;D  :Thmbsup:  :Thmbsup:
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wraith808

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2013, 07:44:30 AM »
^ Totally agreed!  Excellent summation and analysis!  :Thmbsup:

xtabber

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2013, 10:37:18 AM »
Nothing new here.

For an enlightening overview of how the same kind of Goliath vs. Goliath has played out over the last century and a half, I recommend reading The Creation of the Media: Political Origins of Modern Communications by Paul Starr.

Vurbal

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2013, 01:16:44 PM »
Nothing new here.

For an enlightening overview of how the same kind of Goliath vs. Goliath has played out over the last century and a half, I recommend reading The Creation of the Media: Political Origins of Modern Communications by Paul Starr.

I haven't read the book (I'll have to add it to my long to-do list) but I've studied media and communications quite a bit. If you pay attention to the patterns in how the use the media you can actually see this playing out in real time.

It starts with a leak from Company A to some media organization that they're considering a lawsuit against Company B for patent infringement. Company B responds, usually with a leak of their own explaining how original their product is and implying if anything it's Company A's product that's infringing. This back and forth in the media goes on for a couple weeks or maybe a month or 2.

Eventually we learn that the companies are engaged in negotiations to avoid a protracted legal battle. There's usually some more rhetoric from both sides, typically in the form of more leaks. Most of the time there's a very public break down in negotiations followed by a furor in the media because they're on the brink of legal action.

Finally we learn both parties returned to the negotiating table. A short time later a cross licensing deal is announced, often with some kind of partnership between them to use each other's components. The media breathes a sigh of relief that disaster was narrowly averted.

What we really witnessed was nothing more than performance art. In fact the structure is basically the same as a 3 act play. In the first act the characters (products and companies) are introduced. In the second act there's conflict which brings the hero (whichever company you prefer) to the brink of defeat. In act 3 the conflict is resolved.

Along the way both sides get to advertise their products and brands through the press, disguised as leaks and legal arguments. Using so-called journalists as proxies ensures the public perceives it as credible news rather than PR. And of course supporters on each side are reassured their preferred company is reasonable and magnanimous while the competition is evil and greedy. It's brilliant but it's still bullshit.

Edit: If you look at the dispute between Microsoft and Samsung you'll see a textbook example of this. What threw them for a loop in the Apple case is when negotiations broke down Samsung thought they were just finishing Act 2. I'm sure it came as a complete shock when Apple started filing lawsuits for real.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
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They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
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It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 01:25:33 PM by Vurbal »

rgdot

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2013, 12:39:54 AM »
More nuclear wars

Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

Quote
Canada-based telecom Nortel went bankrupt in 2009 and sold its biggest asset—a portfolio of more than 6,000 patents covering 4G wireless innovations and a range of technologies—at an auction in 2011.

Google bid for the patents, but didn't get them. Instead, they went to a group of competitors—Microsoft, Apple, RIM, Ericsson, and Sony—operating under the name "Rockstar Bidco." The companies together bid the shocking sum of $4.5 billion.

Patent insiders knew that the Nortel portfolio was the patent equivalent of a nuclear stockpile: dangerous in the wrong hands, and a bit scary even if held by a "responsible" party.

This afternoon, that stockpile was finally used for what pretty much everyone suspected it would be used for—launching an all-out patent attack on Google and Android. The smartphone patent wars have been underway for a few years now, and the eight lawsuits filed in federal court today by Rockstar Consortium mean that the conflict just hit DEFCON 1.


http://arstechnica.c...ockstar-sues-google/

Renegade

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Re: Apple vs. Samsung Goes NUCLEAR!
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2013, 01:04:36 AM »
^ Thanks for the update!  :Thmbsup:

I'm not sure whether I'm laughing through my vomit, or vomiting through my laughter though. Again, more patently insane confuzzlement...  :huh:
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