Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • December 05, 2016, 04:39:01 AM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Last post Author Topic: RightNote version 3.0.0 released  (Read 13810 times)

PPLandry

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 694
    • View Profile
    • InfoQube Information manager
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: RightNote version 3.0.0 released
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2014, 11:15:53 AM »
Most outliners, once you clone an item, will NOT distinguish anymore between the "original" and the "clones", whilst conceptually, there should be an (updatable) difference, and which I call "natural parent" and "adoptive parent" - name it as you like, but it's evident any item in a tree hierarchy should have a "natural/main context", and then, perhaps multiple, "additional contexts" - and be it only for avoidance-of-recursion reasons: btw, I mentioned this problem within a discussion of InfoQube in the outlinerswforum, where the developer of IQ, Pierre Paul Landry, suberbly said (I'm citing from memory), "IQ allows for recursion"... when in fact, recursion is a PROBLEM of IM, and which has to be avoided/contained, and certainly not a feature of IM (development illac ;-) ).

Hi Peter,
re: natural Parent: Agreed: In InfoQube, an item has a "Main Parent" and any number of other parents. Users can change which item is considered the main parent. The "Main Parent" is used to show hierarchy in grids.

re: Recursion: Why do you see recursion as a problem for IM software. In InfoQube, it is a very useful feature. This ensures that items can be moved around in the hierarchy without limitations (only limitation: an item cannot be a child of itself)

HTH

Pierre
IQ Designer
Real generosity toward the future lies in giving all to the present -- Albert Camus -- www.InfoQube.biz

tomos

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,321
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: RightNote version 3.0.0 released
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2014, 11:49:08 AM »
@peter.s
thanks for the clarifications.
God be with the days when Latin was learned in schools - I did a few months of it myself aged about 12, but moved on when I got a choice (probably more to do with the teacher than the language itself).


PS, I sent you a PM related to your off-topic comments.
Tom

peter.s

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2013
  • *
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: RightNote version 3.0.0 released
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2014, 01:31:48 PM »
Hi tomos,

You see, Pierre Paul has got sw that for any mention of his prog, wherever that might be, he's informed of it, and pronto! Neville should have similar, so no prob for discussing sw within threads named for different sw. ;-)

Hi Pierre Paul,

I tried to discuss recursion some months ago with you, but you didn't answer.

Let's just continue our discussion over there.

For the casual reader here:
- whenever recursion occurs, you must cut it off on export/print (and the routine could add some info there re the cut, e.g. reference to the item number ("e.g. 3.2.6.3.2") in the exported subtree
- data replication (e.g. a cloned heading with some general info, at several places in the hierarchy) is not recursion (and thus is without prob)
- I've never seen any IMS in which recursion would have been "advisable", let alone "necessary" for any of its content, hence:
- You could even implement a routine that will prevent recursion, your data construct only gaining in clarity by this
- We're speaking of IM here, not of code libraries
- But even those, incl. their recursive parts, can be put in a non-recursive tree structure

- In fact, we're discussing main frame spaghetti code for information... but then came Jean-Dominique Warnier...
- And what was missing in his system, we do it by cross-referencing

- Could we have a (short, schematized, but nethertheless) real-life example of where recursion in IM would really be useful?
- Sloppy programming has been exterminated; why incite "information managers" to do sloppy IM?

My points for IM are:
1 - Recursion can (but must) be handled when it occurs
2 - Recursion can be prevented (as can "go to")
3 - Recursion should be avoided for clarity reasons
4 - I'm open to rethink point 3 if I'm given a real-life example where recursion might be helpful
When the wise points to the moon, the moron just looks at his pointer. China.

PPLandry

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 694
    • View Profile
    • InfoQube Information manager
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: RightNote version 3.0.0 released
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2014, 02:29:19 PM »
You see, Pierre Paul has got sw that for any mention of his prog, wherever that might be, he's informed of it, and pronto! Neville should have similar, so no prob for discussing sw within threads named for different sw. ;-)

No special monitoring software... simply using Google !

- Could we have a (short, schematized, but nethertheless) real-life example of where recursion in IM would really be useful?

In IQ, hierarchy is something that is added to items. It is sometimes shown, sometimes not. Closer to a hyperlink than to a disk folder structure.

Items exist in the database, like you and me exist on this earth. If a parent is deleted, its sub-items are not necessarily deleted. Same for you and me... if your father dies, you don't automatically die with him.

So items exist in the database. At any moment, you may want to show an item as a new child of another item. For whatever reason. Why prevent this for the sole reason that somewhere up the hierarchy chain, that item is also present ?

Another example is any good old web page. It may link to sub-pages, and these will typically link back to the main page. A nice convenience and something we don't even think about. The same can be done in IQ.

So, there are at least 2 cases where this is desirable: (1) The hierarchy is deep and (2) To bring a parent close to an item.

Regarding sloppy IM and programming, I believe that IM software should not constrain users.
If recursion is supported, it is certainly not because of laziness, but as a feature. Example of this: IQ support hierarchy equations (i.e. such as value=SUM(children)) and inheritance. Both of these require that recursion be handled correctly to ensure that one does not get into infinite loops !

HTH !
Real generosity toward the future lies in giving all to the present -- Albert Camus -- www.InfoQube.biz

superboyac

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,070
  • Is your software in my list?
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: RightNote version 3.0.0 released
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2014, 11:04:42 PM »
PPL long time!  Good hearing from you.

peter.s

  • Participant
  • Joined in 2013
  • *
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: RightNote version 3.0.0 released
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2014, 10:44:58 AM »
When the wise points to the moon, the moron just looks at his pointer. China.

terryowen

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: RightNote version 3.0.0 released
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2014, 05:19:15 PM »
I don't know about "love" for RN but I bought the Pro and use it extensively corralling text notes, web content, etc.  I'm not a power user - I don't care about attributes or things like that.  As a (portable app) text archive, with embedded attachments and basic spreadsheet support it does a good job (for me, YMMV).  I have tried almost every tree outliner program out there and the only other program that is comparable is EssentialPIM. I like EPim but wish it had spreadsheet capability.   

What I really don't like about RN is the increasing focus on EverNote integration - since I use the program to avoid cloud-based solutions. EN seems to be crowding out any other program improvements.  Also, the pdf handling drives me crazy.  If I embed it (OLE), it isn't searchable.  I have to attach it if I want the pdf content searchable.  And I agree moving anything isn't fun.    

I am keeping an eye on CherryTree, which I like a lot (no embedded attachments right now but I like the csv imports) and have also purchased Mars Notebook, which might be a workable alternative to RightNote for some users.  It's inexpensive anyway.  :-)

The InfoQube looks interesting but overkill for my needs.  One program that almost worked for me was RIM/Remus Information Management. I'm not fond of Java or Eclipse but it had potential. If only it had attracted a developer following...

rjbull

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 2,925
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: RightNote version 3.0.0 released
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2014, 04:36:11 PM »
I don't know about "love" for RN but I bought the Pro and use it extensively corralling text notes, web content, etc.
I find its web clipping a bit fragile.  Some pages it will import without a murmur, but on some it locks up.  On those, it's sometimes possible to use the clipboard instead.  I've also found it too ready to crash when cutting a sub-tree with Shift+Control+X to move it to another page.

the only other program that is comparable is EssentialPIM.
I wanted EPIM Pro for its ability to synch with my Palm, but that only seems to work reliably with an older Palm Desktop than I use.

Your other comments are interesting; I don't think anyone has mentioned the other two PIMs before.

terryowen

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: RightNote version 3.0.0 released
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2014, 04:27:34 PM »

I find its web clipping a bit fragile.  Some pages it will import without a murmur, but on some it locks up.  On those, it's sometimes possible to use the clipboard instead.  I've also found it too ready to crash when cutting a sub-tree with Shift+Control+X to move it to another page.


I find myself keeping MS Word open most of the time and often paste into that first and then into RN or whatever program I'm using. I haven't found any organizer/outliner program that will always paste web content correctly.  (I have to copy and paste directly most of the time due to proxy issues.)  But even with all its annoyances, RN still works the best for me.  There isn't a perfect program out there.

My criteria for such a program is probably different than most.  The most important features for me are portability, price (under $50 preferably), robust import/export (mainly export) and the ability to embed files/attachments.  Spreadsheet capability is #5 and seems to be one of the make or break features.  Portability and attachments are deal breakers for me, though.  I would spend more for a great program that does everything but I haven't found it yet. 

One other program I did buy but haven't used much is Library.Net (http://fishcodelib.com/CodeLib.htm) It's powerful but not intuitive for me - I keep putting off using it. Not sure why, there's something I don't like about how it does tabs and nodes.  I should use it more just to get past the interface issues.   

J-Mac

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 2,913
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: RightNote version 3.0.0 released
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2014, 09:36:28 PM »

I find myself keeping MS Word open most of the time and often paste into that first and then into RN or whatever program I'm using.

Local Website Archive by Aignes Software (Developer of Website-Watcher) makes the most accurate captures of all that I have used. Not too good with regard to other aspects of data collection/analysis like others, but the captures are as perfect as you will get.

http://aignes.com/lwa.htm

Quote
I haven't found any organizer/outliner program that will always paste web content correctly.  (I have to copy and paste directly most of the time due to proxy issues.)  But even with all its annoyances, RN still works the best for me.  There isn't a perfect program out there.

For those pages that aren't easily captured with RN Pro and other programs, I use the Firefox extension Scrapbook and then "capture" the copy that Scrapbook made. Works very well!

Thanks!

Jim

terryowen

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: RightNote version 3.0.0 released
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2014, 10:42:54 PM »

Local Website Archive by Aignes Software (Developer of Website-Watcher) makes the most accurate captures of all that I have used. Not too good with regard to other aspects of data collection/analysis like others, but the captures are as perfect as you will get.
http://aignes.com/lwa.htm
  --
For those pages that aren't easily captured with RN Pro and other programs, I use the Firefox extension Scrapbook and then "capture" the copy that Scrapbook made. Works very well!


I don't understand why the developer doesn't merge LWA with AM-Notebook.  I really liked that program but no attachments... however I believe that the web archive can archive PDF documents (among others) and integrate with the Pro notebook version.  If I didn't have RN, it might have been an okay workaround.

I've been using Chrome for the last six months or so but I miss the Scrapbook tool.  I should get around to importing some of that into RN...  Thanks for the reminder.  :-)  

ETA:  You're right - the web archive program is pretty amazing.  I just tested a couple of pages that nothing gets right.  I need to think about that one now.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 11:00:09 PM by terryowen »