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Author Topic: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)  (Read 4302 times)

Steven Avery

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Greetings!

I like my "ToDo" notes to be very readable and pleasant.

And I use Listhings, which is similar to Google Keep, more versatile and colorful.  Listhings also has a good multi-page implementation where the url can go straight to the desired page externally. And the current page can be chosen and changed from a top bar. This is nice for online notes, available anywhere with the internet. You can set up various size text (or picture) boxes of various colors on top of the corkboard, so you can create a columnar or tiled effect as you like. Thus you might look at one page and have clearly in front of you.

ToDo Today
Special Events
Puter ToDo and Buy
Bible forum discussion
Finance
Job
Web Dev

All in front on the same editor page. A tiling effect, and columnar capability is the key.
Thus all the real estate in full-screen mode is used effectively.  ToDo notes tend
to be short, with lots of blank space to the right if you are in full-screen mode.

The limitation in Listhings is that the editor is weak. Some bold, italics and not much more.

==============================================================

This got me thinking that I really want an editor that has a built-in column or tiling facility.
Thus when the editor is open full-screen it can act de facto as multiple distinct editors,
each column (or tile) has its own editing life.

This could be implemented in a program (e.g. Rightnote and VueMinder are programs with nice editors that I use).

And/or it could be implemented on a web page. (e.g. if Listhings had a good RTF editor it would qualify.)

The key is that logically it should be one document save involved for the page that has the multiple units.

Where does this exist?

Thanks!

Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2015, 12:33:11 PM »
One possibility is the usage of a Stickie with good RTF.

A Sticky program like Notezilla is one idea.   The idea would be to have a group of Sticky Notes that pretty much fill up the screen, that can be opened as a group and then closed as a group.  (I have not checked yet if this is possible.) This would not have the built-in multipage functionality of Listhings, but it might make for a very nice To-Do and Note page with pseudo-columns. Or tiles.

Steven


dr_andus

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2015, 05:01:26 PM »
The idea would be to have a group of Sticky Ntes that pretty much fill up the screen, that can be opened as a group and then closed as a group.

You could try TaskSpace and/or TaskLayout for that.

Steven Avery

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2015, 11:14:02 PM »
Hi,

Thanks. TaskSpace and TaskLayout look like interesting programs.  Reminds me of when I used GoScreen for virtual desktops. All of these I want to look into more as I start to make my work environment more comfortable.

I'm pretty sure that what I want is in the stickie notes land.  Although I think when some regular editors implement columns, people will realize how powerful it is.  © :).   Maybe some do.

==========================

For what I want, PNotes, which I loaded a few days ago, looks very good.  Fully open-source free, with a robust manager, command line switches (for making a show/hide icon), groups .. yeah!, and a decent RTF.  Slider for long notes. And ability to receive pics. Also portable friendly. Skins. And decent additional stuff like network send capabilities.  And a forum. And has longevity.  I am using the .NET version (they have an earlier one without).  They do have Plugins, such as post to Facebook. And sync to Dropbox and others.  Neat.

The editor toolbar is small in size, I'm going to ask about that. No calendar/reminder system, a feature of TurboNote+, I think calendars are not generally in stickies.

The weakness of PNotes compared to some competition ... all desktop, no attachment to web pages, documents, or programs, is, in this implementation, no problem at all. Where I want that stuff, I will separately use Stickies, NoteZilla, GumNote, Internote (Firefox,web), or various others. Maybe Diigo or Webnotes for more sophisticated web annotation.  (Sticky notes could use a good chart-matrix of features.)  

(Corrected 1/6 see below. PNotes has a pin to window, related to app, feature.)

All I really want today, the master visible ToDo, is a desktop group of notes that can cover the desktop and show/hide easily. And having multiple groups or subgroups may come in handy.

Shixxnote may deserve some attention as an alternate, if more robust LAN messaging is a help, 5 users $25, didn't see a note manager.
GloboNote is fairly new, free.

Gizmo goes for Stickies and PNote as the best free, and has a recent 2014 update.

Steven
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 03:33:05 AM by Steven Avery »

IainB

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2015, 12:10:02 AM »
Something along these lines was Microsoft MS Labs Sticky Sorter (Affinity Model) - I think v1.0.1908.0 (Rev.No.: {EDE23986-7C05-42F7-9187-FB07AF83DBD3}) was the last - see: Create Affinity Diagrams with Microsoft Sticky Sorter

Website was: http://www.officelab...r/Pages/default.aspx

Website now is: http://web.archive.o...r/Pages/default.aspx

File was: http://officelabs.vo...tickySorterSetup.msi

File now is: http://web.archive.o...tickySorterSetup.msi

Refer DCF discussion Re: lightweight software for organizing notes? (not web-based)

Nifty feature: You could output/edit the stickes' contents in an Excel or CSV file.

Steven Avery

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2015, 01:17:24 AM »
So far, so good.

In review.
There are really 3-4 distinct ways to accomplish this full visual note with frequent update idea.
This has come up on DC.

===

Stickies: PNotes. (StickyPostr, Stickies, NoteZilla) 
And I have a post in on the PNotes forum
https://sourceforge....hread/bc18edd8/#2d6b

Net:  Listhings, Stormboard. Maybe a bunch of others like Padlet.

Apps:  Note software with multi-window feature (not found yet, might also have tabs).

===

also .. Ad hoc: using Windows tools to create ad hoc, maybe TaskSpace or TaskLayout.
And/or virtual desktop like GoScreen.  However, this has to work with some elements
similar to the above. It can just help in minimizing/maximizing and choosing amount
of real estate.

===================================

btw, a beginners question. I use MaxMax to clear space for some special icons (like kill Firefox) on the right.
If I wanted to clear the desktop from the System Tray or Taskbar, best method? Rather than the keyboard shortcut.
Just make a .bat file with .. something?  And how about a Restore Desktop followup ? That could be on the desktop,
or the system tray.

Steven
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 10:52:17 AM by Steven Avery »

Steven Avery

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2015, 03:30:24 AM »
Correction:

PNotes does have "Pin Note to Window" . Related to Apps.  No fundamental lack compared to Notezilla and Stickies,
although implementations differ.

Mabye pin to the TaskSpace Window will let a TaskSpace bring up a set of notes cleanly.

vmars316

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2015, 05:43:30 PM »
PsPad does a great job with 'column capture'
and its freeware , and portable .
http://www.pspad.com/en/download.php
...vm
"All things in moderation, except for love and forgiveness."

Steven Avery

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2015, 01:15:09 PM »
However, it looks like it would be hard to fake out these row-oriented programmer editor's into thinking like a
full-screen note-pad. e.g. you would want to have the:

a) rows hard coded, creating a carriage return for any text leading into the new column. The cursor is forcing you to enter as a block.
  b) full-screen mode to be natural, allowing change of size on groups of lines.

Anybody succeed in that?

If you go into a program like Rightnote, without columns, you end up with huge amounts of white space and the inability to use the screen real estate productively.  (That is, on short choppy notes like To-Do lists .. it is superb for keeping written document style writing, even good unicode as I remember for Greek and maybe Hebrew fonts.)

The comparison is with various sticky notes implementations and web pages like listhings and note.ly and lino.
And somewhat artificial attempts to create a task work area.

Those can work, but not with super-ease. e.g. The web pages have very limited rtf, and your making of the columns, while pretty (different background colors) is a clunky manual endeavor.  You don't even have a template or easy copy capability.   So far, the one I like most is listhings because of a very nice tab implementation and quick writing capability, it can be used quite successfully for a full catalog of notes, with sharing capabilities. However RTF is simply stuff like bold and italics and there it seems there is no more development of the program.

By far the nicest method for many purposes would be within a *** note-taking program ***. (Either single-function or with a PIM.)
Even if it did not have any net integration other than Dropbox style.

Steven
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 05:25:01 AM by Steven Avery »

Steven Avery

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editor with columns - using NoteZilla
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2015, 12:41:44 AM »
.
Here is why NoteZilla seems is becoming my desktop note program.
(The notes themselves are a WIP.)

The purpose is to show how NoteZilla can become a full-page and multi-page (tree) columned note system.
Using their memoboard structure, which is not in Stickies and PNote.

Have not found that it has a snap-to-grid type of arrangement.
And I don't think they have templates.
Tabs would be nice.

Those are all potential extras to the basic utility.

No forum, lots of updates recently

And have not tested out the push sending to other puters (likely they need licenses).

For this purpose of notes, RTF, with columns and a tree structure, NoteZilla can be a fine tool.
The top and left can be made bigger or sent right to the edge.

(Also seems as good as anybody, so far, for web page notes.)

btw ... NoteZilla, PNote and Stickies all take pictures from the clipboard.

PNote control manager (manager) has a full but cluttered icon bar without text, Stickies has nothing there,
NoteZilla is very good (see the pic.)


====================================================

NoteZilla and othes.jpg
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 12:58:05 AM by Steven Avery »

conceptworld

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2015, 11:27:03 PM »

Here is where you can find more details about Notezilla -  http://www.conceptworld.com/Notezilla

Deozaan

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2015, 01:29:32 AM »
Would Trello suit your needs?


Steven Avery

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2015, 02:00:41 AM »
Trello looks good for a personal or collaborative hybrid of project manager and todo list.

(Right now we are using Insightly for this collaboratively, as part of a CRM. Not as visual
yet rather a decent tool.  It has been quite a "hit" for the 4 person collaboration.)

As a master note list Trello looks like it simply has fixed column lengths, lacks RTF and
the memoboard structure is not a visual tree with subunits. Somewhat of a different
tool.

The Notezilla memoboards allow flexible output and visual emphasis, a big plus for
your own notes and remembrance situation.

Notezilla has become my standard of comparison.

btw, I had done the Notezilla review here many years back, and then had not used
it for some years.  I came back to it through the back-door, looking for a flexible
column editor and notes schema ... web or desktop.  So far, good.

Notezilla also seems good for the web page annotation  theme although getting it
attached to the page is multi-step, it would be nice if it could have an Internote
style extension icon in Firefox.  However, there may be architecture questions.

Beyond  that, networking and such, I am hoping that Gautam Jain (Conceptworld)
will engage in more in depth discussions on a singular thread or a new forum.

Gautam, c'mon .. we know you appreciate the positive chatter, and can point us to Notezilla,
now why don't you do a bit more in dialog?  We've got questions and ideas, maybe you have
some answers and feedback.

Steven
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 03:05:08 AM by Steven Avery »

conceptworld

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2015, 05:01:07 AM »

Thanks a lot Steven for expressing your support for Notezilla.

Yes, we don't have any active forum yet. Don't wish to keep one in near future. Of course, such discussion threads are welcome. But not dedicated forum.

I like to implement features based on the feature requests I get via email. This keeps me free to implement features based on the demand without any pressure from public forum discussions.

I have a very very long list of features including snap to grid (which is a nice feature to add).

In general, I like not to complicate the product with too many features. What's most wanted is native app for Android & iOS. We just released Android app. We will be launching iOS app in some months.

You can share more thoughts and ideas over hear with direct questions addressing to me in this forum. I wasn't replying earlier because it was a general discussion comparing features of other products.

Regards,
Gautam Jain


Steven Avery

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2015, 03:18:45 AM »
Hi,

Yes I think I will start a thread here ... title something like:

"questions about stickies ... the NoteZilla memoboard paradigm"

And that will be the one thread where I will place the Notezilla quirks and needs.
Snap-to-grip, or something like that, likely being #1. Tabs on top would be a wonderful complement to the tree structure.  Is that asking too much in the road-map? This really relates to the memoboard full-blown personal and project note system.

And I am interested in hearing what people don't like about this memoboard use.  Clearly you don't have sophisticated tables and spreadsheets and stuff like that as in some full-blown note implementations like Rightnote.  Internal linking should be compared.

Also you do not have publish-to-web as in
TreePad - Memobook - MyInfo -Mynoteskeeper
(I quickly went to my memoboard to find that short list.)

And one major element of the thread will be what I find important benefits, aspects and needs in Notezilla.
Also a general go-with-the-flow discussions of comparison of the "Big Three":

 .. Notezilla, Stickies, and PNotes.

And anything we can learn from the others, including the memoboards online like Listhings.
(And why can't anybody do web pages the neat Internote way, working with urls instead of window names.)

As I have indicated, it seems that NoteZilla is only one with a fine memoboard implementation (it looked like you lack a corkboard background :) ) and for me, this is the single most important feature.  Tree structure, whitespace be-gone, pleasant RTF and colors, those are the basics that I require.  And this crosses the line from sticky to note system, and a week or two has only increased the significance.  

Again, a forum, or a section in a forum in the Wilders ways, would discuss such uses, and generate interest.  

And I definitely recommend that you make up a special page emphasizing the potential utility of memoboards as a full-blown note system. It took me many years to see the potentiality.  (And I would not be surprised if some of the other sticky systems come up with an implementation, so you want a head-start in user base and feedback.)

I'd like to look at the various synch capabilities, since stickies, other than implementations like the Listhings memoboard and Internote or Diigo, are inherently desktop.

What it would mean to try to do quick-print. And even publish to web. (e.g. either export to HTML or screen snaps to web). If screenshots, I'll probably try an ad hoc implementation, maybe using ShareX, Greenshot or Screenshot Captor.  Also maybe using macro automation.  The export to HTML works fine, although it ends with a white-space page. Hmmm .. how about a visual maintained export.

I'm hoping to try out the whole network and transferring aspect.  There, cost and convenience come to play and some people might end up using more than one sticky system.

Steven
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 03:38:12 AM by Steven Avery »

conceptworld

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Re: editor with built-in column or tiling facility - (Listhings comes close)
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2015, 05:18:34 AM »

Thanks Steven.

Really appreciate your long post with ideas & enthusiasm.

Yes, memoboards can be better. I would prefer to add things that will make it more intuitive & fun to use.

Tables & spreadsheets will make the product very heavy. I will go far away from the simple-fast sticky note system. So this is not in our road map. We don't intend to make Notezilla heavy with features that are used only by a small subset of users.

Notezilla currently syncs across desktops and phones.

Publish to web seems interesting. I will take note of that.

Regards,
Gautam Jain