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Last post Author Topic: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)  (Read 6546 times)

Renegade

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NIST (U.S. Department of Commerce) seems to think it can help with online identity...



BWAHAHAHAHAHA~!

Just how stupid does anyone need to be to trust these guys?

If that wasn't on the actual NIST site, I would have thought it was a parody. Unfortunately, it's not.

The morons even put smart cards with RFID in there! You need to be completely brain-dead to trust RFID. There's no excuse for that level of incompetence. Well... brain death is an excuse, but other than that...
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Stoic Joker

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2014, 11:33:28 AM »
OMFG You have GOT to be Kidding! The "Trusted Identity" positively identifies you but not by using your name...(because that's really important (...Not!))...and they pinky swear promise not to keep that correlation in a database.

 :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

...Hay Ren, what do you get when you cross a lemming with a sheep?

40hz

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2014, 05:23:39 PM »
Yeah right! Sign me up...

Maybe it's time to revive that old IBM slogan:

          Think!

Renegade

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2014, 09:13:27 PM »
...Hay Ren, what do you get when you cross a lemming with a sheep?

Hmm... Not sure... Got a few guesses though!

  • A voter
  • A super-cute Disney special that ends in mass slaughter and crying children
  • A shemming or leep (off a cliff)

How am I doing so far?

Yeah right! Sign me up...

Maybe it's time to revive that old IBM slogan:

          Think!

I believe that is under regulation by some alphabet soup department and requires certification and licensing. I hear the fees are worth it because prison terms for trying it without being properly licensed really are worse than they say they are.

On the downside, you'll need a Trusted Identity in Cyberspace to apply for a certification course or a license...
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

TaoPhoenix

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2014, 01:28:55 AM »
I'm not even a techie and that sounds like a video Mobius loop. "Instead of a password, you can have a 'credential' ". What is a credential?! And how do you provide it somewhere that can't be stolen in Heartbleed?!

And I agree with the opinion of scary-humor of "there is no central database to track these". Except... by the providers who issued them, right? I'd love to see *that* management meeting.

"So, how many of  these have we issued?"
"We don't know."
"Uh, how do you not know?"
"We just issue the things, we don't track them."
;D

Renegade

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 07:49:56 AM »
"We just issue the things, we don't track them."

^ That guy. I want to steal his stapler. (This is starting to remind me of that one fellow in "The Office".)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Stoic Joker

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2014, 07:56:59 AM »
"We just issue the things, we don't track them."

^ That guy. I want to steal his stapler. (This is starting to remind me of that one fellow in "The Office".)

...If only a national stapler tracking database could have prevented that. :(

Renegade

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 08:48:36 AM »
"We just issue the things, we don't track them."

^ That guy. I want to steal his stapler. (This is starting to remind me of that one fellow in "The Office".)

...If only a national stapler tracking database could have prevented that. :(

Wouldn't help... It'd be compromised by the Thumbbleed exploit.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Vurbal

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2014, 04:52:09 PM »
"We just issue the things, we don't track them."

^ That guy. I want to steal his stapler. (This is starting to remind me of that one fellow in "The Office".)

My son has a teacher with a red Swingline. When he pointed it out to her she said, "if they take my stapler I'll burn the place down!"
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

40hz

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2014, 05:21:55 PM »
^Good thing she doesn't teach in my state! Making a joke like that probably would have gotten her in trouble if not fired or at least ordered to get a psych evaluation to be sure she isn't a therat to "The Children."
 :-\

Vurbal

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2014, 09:37:58 AM »
^Good thing she doesn't teach in my state! Making a joke like that probably would have gotten her in trouble if not fired or at least ordered to get a psych evaluation to be sure she isn't a therat to "The Children."
 :-\

I have to admit we're fortunate to live in a school district where there's a minimal amount of rigid ignorance, beyond government mandated knee jerking anyway.

We even have our own Supreme Court decision to remind everyone just what rigid ignorance looks like - and how the SCOTUS feels about it.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

40hz

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2014, 01:01:48 PM »
I have to admit we're fortunate to live in a school district where there's a minimal amount of rigid ignorance, beyond government mandated knee jerking anyway.

Understood. Unfortunately, we're on a real roll in CT. First the Sandy Hook school shooting incident not that long ago. Now, just last week, a 16-year old kid stabbed his alleged ex-girfriend to death - in their high school - during the school day-  when she refused to go to the junior prom with him. Very tragic story.

Needless to say, half the State is going a little nuts over all of this. Because: "We're a nice, safe, upscale state. Our kids are 'nice' too. Things like this shouldn't be happening here."

You know the drill... :(

Renegade

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2014, 09:24:50 PM »
^Good thing she doesn't teach in my state! Making a joke like that probably would have gotten her in trouble if not fired or at least ordered to get a psych evaluation to be sure she isn't a therat to "The Children."
 :-\

I have to admit we're fortunate to live in a school district where there's a minimal amount of rigid ignorance, beyond government mandated knee jerking anyway.

We even have our own Supreme Court decision to remind everyone just what rigid ignorance looks like - and how the SCOTUS feels about it.

Quote
Decision Date: February 24, 1969

The problem is that there are too many neo-libs and neo-cons that seem to think that "all that Constitution nonsense is outdated". After all, "it's a living document" and "needs to reflect the reality of the times we live in." Pfft. Horse s**t.

I don't think that the courts would rule the same today.

Honestly, the way schools are now scares me. I've seen parts of some curricula, and they're terrifying. I was at an event hosted at an elementary school, and what was posted on the walls was just surreal. They might as well have just posted pictures of Stalin and Mao.

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2014, 05:11:57 AM »
Honestly, the way schools are now scares me. I've seen parts of some curricula, and they're terrifying. I was at an event hosted at an elementary school, and what was posted on the walls was just surreal. They might as well have just posted pictures of Stalin and Mao.

Same deal here. It's like watching Sinclair Lewis's novel It Can't Happen Here playing out in real time.

What they don't tell the kids
groening-life-in-hell.gif


 ;)
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 05:19:31 AM by 40hz »

Vurbal

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2014, 01:13:13 PM »
^Good thing she doesn't teach in my state! Making a joke like that probably would have gotten her in trouble if not fired or at least ordered to get a psych evaluation to be sure she isn't a therat to "The Children."
 :-\

I have to admit we're fortunate to live in a school district where there's a minimal amount of rigid ignorance, beyond government mandated knee jerking anyway.

We even have our own Supreme Court decision to remind everyone just what rigid ignorance looks like - and how the SCOTUS feels about it.

Quote
Decision Date: February 24, 1969

The problem is that there are too many neo-libs and neo-cons that seem to think that "all that Constitution nonsense is outdated". After all, "it's a living document" and "needs to reflect the reality of the times we live in." Pfft. Horse s**t.

I don't think that the courts would rule the same today.

Honestly, the way schools are now scares me. I've seen parts of some curricula, and they're terrifying. I was at an event hosted at an elementary school, and what was posted on the walls was just surreal. They might as well have just posted pictures of Stalin and Mao.


I actually do think the SCOTUS would rule the same today. When it comes to the basics of First Amendment protection, meaning there are no special rights for politicorporate elite at stake, the Supreme Court has been remarkably consistent for nearly the last hundred years. The eventual outcome of a challenge isn't the problem IMO. The problem is the likelihood a legitimate challenge would get buried in a mountain of stupid for months or years before making it there. That's assuming they took the first such case to come along, which may or may not be the case.

Simple free speech cases, particularly those with the potential to set benchmarks for decades of briefs, precedents, and even future SCOTUS decisions, are the modern day court's bread and butter to some extent. At least since the time Oliver Wendell Holmes was pushed by history and his colleagues from from the dark side and became a defender of speech, the justices have been overwhelmingly (and apparently personally) committed to the principal of extremely narrow and tailored speech regulation and even less prior restraint. It's politically cheap and, I suspect, beyond the view, from that height, to truly grasp the effects of.

In terms of school district bureaucrats, things are more complex. We have some personal advantages there since my wife is Administrative Assistant to the district's Transportation Manager. She has also become one of the district's 2 "go to" people for the payroll system they just rolled out, working for/with the Comptroller and Superintendent and being personally responsible for supporting all the school Office Managers. When the top administrators have you on their short list of people who, "just get things done," it's amazing the difference it makes in your access to bullshit free answers.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

TaoPhoenix

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2014, 08:32:54 PM »
Heh what often annoys me about the SuperCourt is how often they either decline cases or purposely avoid ruling sticky parts of the case.

(Imagined pseudo conversation)
"Dear Supremes. Rule on this case, the whole thing."
"No."
"Sudo Rule on the whole case NOW!"

Then you return to Vurbal's aforementioned mountain of stupid. (But look, it's the *next mountain over* now! Cue "Climb every mountain!" )

:)



« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 12:49:01 AM by TaoPhoenix »

Stoic Joker

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2014, 10:51:27 PM »
Then you return to Vurbal's aforementioned mountain of stupid. (But look, it's the *next mountain over* now! Cue "Climb every mountain!"

Nice... Now I get to go to bed with that song stuck in my head. If I have nightmares about the Von Trapp family singing while chasing me with champagne and little white flowers I'll strangle you in the morning.

Renegade

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2014, 11:47:47 PM »
Speaking of songs sticking in your head, after reading this I now have "Welcome to Hell" by Venom running through mine...



http://www.techdirt....cense-internet.shtml

Quote
US Government Begins Rollout Of Its 'Driver's License For The Internet'
from the seizing-the-(wrong)-moment dept

An idea the government has been kicking around since 2011 is finally making its debut. Calling this move ill-timed would be the most gracious way of putting it.

Quote
A few years back, the White House had a brilliant idea: Why not create a single, secure online ID that Americans could use to verify their identity across multiple websites, starting with local government services. The New York Times described it at the time as a "driver's license for the internet."

Sound convenient? It is. Sound scary? It is.

Next month, a pilot program of the "National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace" will begin in government agencies in two US states, to test out whether the pros of a federally verified cyber ID outweigh the cons.

The NSTIC program has been in (slow) motion for nearly three years, but now, at a time when the public's trust in government is at an all time low, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST -- itself still reeling a bit from NSA-related blowback) is testing the program in Michigan and Pennsylvania. The first tests appear to be exclusively aimed at accessing public programs, like government assistance. The government believes this ID system will help reduce fraud and overhead, by eliminating duplicated ID efforts across multiple agencies.

But the program isn't strictly limited to government use. The ultimate goal is a replacement of many logins and passwords people maintain to access content and participate in comment threads and forums. This "solution," while somewhat practical, also raises considerable privacy concerns.

More at the link.

They've moved on from shoving bad ideas down your throat to ramming them up your ass. Nice.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2014, 08:52:16 AM »
^Yup! Just like (by law) your "social security" number was only legally allowed to be used for obtaining government benefits under the federal Social Security Program. They constantly emphasised it was not intended to be a national ID card (like the bad guy Soviet Union issued) or to be used for any other purpose.

Then the IRS started using it for income tax returns. Then the banks started using it for customer ID and "tax reporting purposes." Then colleges and universities because of government student loans. Then many states started using it purely for state programs such as driver's licenses and arrest records. Then businesses started using it for customer identification...

Yep. Not a "national ID card." And strictly "limited to government use." Understood...

But...with the government involved openly (or covertly) in just about every aspect of American public and "private" life (talk about an oxymoron), what isn't "government business" any more?

This really sucks. And what makes it suck even more is that it will come to pass - and hardly anybody will care.

Here's how it will end. Because that's the way this sort of thing always ends:

 
Viewer discretion advised
slaughter.jpg


TaoPhoenix

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2014, 09:10:32 AM »
Yeah, basically. Except now because it's "just websites" and I'm still lost what makes this thing more secure than a garden variety username and password. And didn't we just get done watching Heartbleed hit the internet highways? Everyone said "Oh well, change your passwords." But you can't change this thing.

So I'm really confused what they think the magic bullet tech concept in this is.


Stoic Joker

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2014, 11:11:17 AM »
So I'm really confused what they think the magic bullet tech concept in this is.

The "magic" is that once the bullet goes in your head, you can't complain any more ... So only "happy" - or at least to scared to complain - people are left ... Making for excellent press.

It's a sheeple driven self defeating feedback loop.

Vurbal

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2014, 03:16:36 PM »
At the risk of threadjacking, the question I keep coming back to personally is whether our problem systems can be torn down, as in saving the system, or whether it's too late and we're stuck with burning it all down. At one point I was almost convinced the US represented too much geography and population to manage effectively via representative democracy.

Increasingly I've come to the opinion serious term limits across all elected and appointed positions, effectively implemented, is the ultimate future of democratic government. It's one of those lessons you sort of have to learn the hard way. It will happen in waves, as these sorts of changes always do, and it may still be a century or more in the future for all I know.

Let's say we implement my overly ambitious term limits throughout the government. We've perhaps changed the flow of appointees to the bloated politicorporate machinery, but what's going to cut out the rot? How many decades do we have/are we willing to wait for that? I think a lot of things will become clearer, much quicker suddenly, perhaps more than once.

My oldest daughter is already voting age, my second youngest will be there in a month and a half, and 3 1/2 years from now all my kids will be voting. They belong to a generation which has had a peek behind the curtain and been confronted with the country's political and corporate machinery in a raw and personally meaningful way. What some of us argued in vain for decades is now common knowledge. Is it too little too late? Is it just the normal course correction of democracy?

What do you think? Can we tear out the rot in the US or should we burn it down and start over?

Also, in the case of a bloody revolution leading to the balkanization of the former United States, which part of my former country do you recommend landing in when the dust settles? Iowa would still be a vital transportation hub in the new world order, but I'm not sure I want to live in a country without a coastline.   :P
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

Renegade

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2014, 04:05:13 PM »
^Yup! Just like (by law) your "social security" number was only legally allowed to be used for obtaining government benefits under the federal Social Security Program. They constantly emphasised it was not intended to be a national ID card (like the bad guy Soviet Union issued) or to be used for any other purpose.

Then the IRS started using it for income tax returns. Then the banks started using it for customer ID and "tax reporting purposes." Then colleges and universities because of government student loans. Then many states started using it purely for state programs such as driver's licenses and arrest records. Then businesses started using it for customer identification...

Yep. Not a "national ID card." And strictly "limited to government use." Understood...

But...with the government involved openly (or covertly) in just about every aspect of American public and "private" life (talk about an oxymoron), what isn't "government business" any more?

This really sucks. And what makes it suck even more is that it will come to pass - and hardly anybody will care.

Here's how it will end. Because that's the way this sort of thing always ends:

 

+1,000,000

And THAT is why there can be no "moderation" or "middle road". If you give these criminals an inch, they'll take a mile... for starters.

There can be no negotiations or compromises on principles. Compromising principles ends badly.

Whether is is free speech, firearms freedom, or security in your personal property and life, sacrificing a part is akin to sacrificing it all.

Some people may hate it, but it's why some of us say, "What part of 'shall not be infringed' did you not understand?"

Principles. They matter.

It may or may not be too late:

http://www.washingto...stitutional-era.html

Quote
“We Are No Longer a Nation Ruled By Laws”

Pulitzer prize winning reporter Chris Hedges – along with journalist Naomi Wolf, Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, activist Tangerine Bolen and others – sued the government to join the NDAA’s allowance of the indefinite detention of Americans.

The trial judge in the case asked the government attorneys 5 times whether journalists like Hedges could be indefinitely detained simply for interviewing and then writing about bad guys.

The government refused to promise that journalists like Hedges won’t be thrown in a dungeon for the rest of their lives without any right to talk to a judge.

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2014, 04:16:23 PM »
What do you think? Can we tear out the rot in the US or should we burn it down and start over?

Burn it down.

We have thousands of years of history that illustrate that governments always end badly. Always. Why continue with a system that we KNOW is inherently flawed and that does not work? It's insane to do so.

You are not allowed to kidnap, murder, or steal, unless you are "government"? Just how does that make sense? A special privileged class that is above the law?

Mass murder is bad, unless you're "government" and call mass murder "war"? Can anyone tell me just how mass murder is good?

The US started as the smallest, most limited form of government, but has mushroomed into an 8,000 tonne demonic gorilla.

It is not ending well...

Burn it down.

...in the new world order...

I do wonder what you are getting at there. I'll skip comments as they're more appropriate for the basement.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

tomos

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Re: National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace (NSTIC)
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2014, 06:19:06 PM »
I haven't seen or heard of anything good coming out of fighting either, in the last couple of millenium at any rate.
Tom