Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • December 08, 2016, 11:56:43 PM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Poll

How do you feel about the idea of handing over your mobile phone to a police officer?

I don't like it.
I don't mind.
I am not concerned, since I don't own a mobile phone.

Author Topic: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone  (Read 3092 times)

app103

  • That scary taskbar girl
  • Global Moderator
  • Joined in 2006
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,666
    • View Profile
    • App's Apps
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« on: February 10, 2015, 07:47:56 AM »
It's possible that in the near future, if you are pulled over by an officer, you'll just hand over your mobile phone when he asks for license, registration, and proof of insurance.

While electronic versions of these documents would be convenient for many, the current practice of an officer taking the paper/plastic versions of them back to his vehicle while he writes up your ticket, could pose some privacy risks, if he is taking your mobile phone to his vehicle, instead.

What is going to stop him from snooping through your phone, at the same time?

A recently passed bill in New Jersey allows electronic proof of insurance, like 37 other states already allow, but explicitly forbids police from accessing any other information on the phone.

But the original version of that recent NJ bill would have allowed police officers to search a driver's mobile phone without a warrant, to determine if a driver was texting or talking on the phone at the time of an accident.

And while it would be forbidden for an officer to snoop under this current e-insurance bill, it might not be in the next one covering e-drivers licenses, or it might not be under future legislation, or in states other than New Jersey.

And even if snooping is illegal, it would still be up to the officer to be a good guy, acting with integrity and complying with that part of the law. What if he doesn't feel like it? What if he snoops and finds something he can use against you and claims an "oops, my finger slipped" moment, leading to the discovery of that data (or he exploits some other loophole in the law to cover his butt)?

License, registration and cell phone: Showing insurance proof on smart phones coming soon?
E-Driver’s License Legislation in N.J. Gains Momentum

16871545-mmmain[1].jpg

tomos

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,335
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2015, 07:55:48 AM »
I reckon there's not too many people who dont have a mobile phone, especially here at dc. Option #3 could be modified to: I'm not concerned because I dont own a smartphone (or add as another option?).
Tom

eleman

  • Spam Killer
  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 393
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 07:57:07 AM »
Here's what would happen in Turkey, if you let a cop touch your phone. In a nutshell, the police saved known terrorists' phone numbers to the phone of the detainee. Then the detainee was kept in prison for 33 months pending a ruling in court. Then he was acquitted of all charges.

The whole evidence against him was cooked.

So, no, I would never let a police touch my phone.

Deozaan

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Points: 1
  • Posts: 7,721
    • View Profile
    • The Blog of Deozaan
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 11:32:41 AM »
I say if you willingly hand your phone to a police officer, you should assume that he will snoop through it. But as long as it's just an option, and not required, then I don't mind the choice being there.


rjbull

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 2,927
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2015, 04:18:22 PM »
Couldn't you use one of the password-protection apps, like Asus' own App Locker that was supplied with my Asus tablet, to prevent easy, casual snooping?

app103

  • That scary taskbar girl
  • Global Moderator
  • Joined in 2006
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,666
    • View Profile
    • App's Apps
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2015, 04:55:45 PM »
I reckon there's not too many people who dont have a mobile phone, especially here at dc. Option #3 could be modified to: I'm not concerned because I dont own a smartphone (or add as another option?).

I don't have a mobile phone of any sort, smartphone, dumbphone, or otherwise.  ;)

Nor do I really have a need for one, except maybe once every few years when some family member goes into panic mode when I am not home and they don't know where I am for a few hours.

I say if you willingly hand your phone to a police officer, you should assume that he will snoop through it. But as long as it's just an option, and not required, then I don't mind the choice being there.

It's only just an option at this point because while many people do own mobile phones, we can't expect everyone to...yet.

Couldn't you use one of the password-protection apps, like Asus' own App Locker that was supplied with my Asus tablet, to prevent easy, casual snooping?

Is this available for phones, too? All phones, regardless of OS? And would it still allow an officer easy access to the e-documents he would need access to? And would an officer want to give you the time needed to activate it, before handing him the phone?

Deozaan

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Points: 1
  • Posts: 7,721
    • View Profile
    • The Blog of Deozaan
    • Read more about this member.
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2015, 04:58:08 PM »
Couldn't you use one of the password-protection apps, like Asus' own App Locker that was supplied with my Asus tablet, to prevent easy, casual snooping?

Is this available for phones, too? All phones, regardless of OS? And would it still allow an officer easy access to the e-documents he would need access to? And would an officer want to give you the time needed to activate it, before handing him the phone?

Android Lollipop has an app locking feature which allows you to require the device to be unlocked for people to change apps from the currently open app. I always thought of it as a "kid mode" so that you can hand off your tablet/phone to your children with a drawing app open and keep them from messing anything else up, but I guess it would work here, too.

EDIT: It's quick and easy to activate, too. It just takes a couple of taps and the current app is locked.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 01:47:08 AM by Deozaan »

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2015, 05:00:57 PM »
I say if you willingly hand your phone to a police officer, you should assume that he will snoop through it. But as long as it's just an option, and not required, then I don't mind the choice being there.

You're assuming he might is not the same thing as giving your consent. At least not here it wasn't since "implied consent" was never seriously argued as being valid whenever police were involved. Or more correctly, not until recently.

There's also the question of just how willing anything is when involving the police. If an officer says "Give me your phone." your refusal can easily be justified as grounds for your arrest. Or in some cases, an excuse to use deadly force, as in: "Yes Your Honor...The remanding officer, upon not receiving 'cooperation' from the suspect, briefly looked away to check his radio and request backup. But upon looking back, saw the suspect holding an object in his hand in an threatening manner - which gave the officer cause to believe it was a firearm being pointed at him. Fearing for his own and several bystander's safety, the officer then unholstered and discharged his own firearm at the suspect in accordance with departmental policies governing the use of deadly force, striking the suspect three times in the chest at near point blank range. Medical assistance and additional police backup was immediately summoned subsequent to the officer discharging his firearm. EMTs arrived on the scene 15 minutes later, but were unable to revive the suspect who was pronounced "dead at the scene" 20 minutes and 17 seconds after the arrival of emergency medical assistance. The officer was placed on administrative leave pending internal investigation. After conducting a thorough investigation, the Internal Affairs investigating team cleared the officer, concluding his actions to be both justifiable and in accordance with departmental policy regarding the use of deadly force. As a result, the recommendation was made that no criminal charges be filed against this officer. The District Attorney, after reviewing this investigation, has announced the state will not be filing charges nor convene a grand jury to further investigate this incident. In light of that, we would like to request the court now grant a summary dismissal of all civil charges currently pending against this officer. And we further request these charges be dismissed with prejudice due to lack of merit.."

That scenario plays out far more often than you'd like to think it does.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 08:32:48 PM by 40hz »

crabby3

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 1,002
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2015, 10:12:52 AM »
I don't have a mobile phone of any sort, smartphone, dumbphone, or otherwise.  ;)

 ;D .., dumbphone, ..  ;D

Maybe one could email their edocuments to the cops computer?  If nothing else.. it would be a more practical roadside sobriety test.

The standings after my vote:
2015-02-11 11 02 07.png

Stoic Joker

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,296
    • View Profile
    • www.StoicJoker.com
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2015, 11:35:08 AM »
Now what I want to see - for real public safety - is a mobile phone app that will scan and validate the cop's fingerprint (there are a lot of phony LEO cases in the news these days) to pass/fail prove they are indeed 'Duly Authorized' to be stopping people in the first place.

MilesAhead

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 7,288
    • View Profile
    • Miles Ahead Software
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2015, 11:40:28 AM »
Now what I want to see - for real public safety - is a mobile phone app that will scan and validate the cop's fingerprint (there are a lot of phony LEO cases in the news these days) to pass/fail prove they are indeed 'Duly Authorized' to be stopping people in the first place.

Maybe they should have "smart badges" that squawk the cop's badge number. By the time you can check the fingerprint he's close enough to grab you.  Like, you hit a broadcast button on your phone and the cop's badge texts you the badge number which you can Google before you pull over.

crabby3

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2012
  • **
  • Posts: 1,002
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2015, 12:11:55 PM »
Gods have fingerprints?   :huh:

Stoic Joker

  • Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,296
    • View Profile
    • www.StoicJoker.com
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2015, 01:46:58 PM »
Now what I want to see - for real public safety - is a mobile phone app that will scan and validate the cop's fingerprint (there are a lot of phony LEO cases in the news these days) to pass/fail prove they are indeed 'Duly Authorized' to be stopping people in the first place.

Maybe they should have "smart badges" that squawk the cop's badge number. By the time you can check the fingerprint he's close enough to grab you.  Like, you hit a broadcast button on your phone and the cop's badge texts you the badge number which you can Google before you pull over.

Excellent Point - but have the lookup completely automated (for safety) - Holy shit, I think we just might be on to something!

MilesAhead

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2009
  • **
  • Posts: 7,288
    • View Profile
    • Miles Ahead Software
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2015, 01:59:41 PM »
I think we just might be on to something!

Not only the badge number verified.  Since it's a smart phone a picture of the cop should automatically download if it reports the badge number is genuine for that area/jurisdiction etc..


rjbull

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 2,927
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: License, registration, and insurance...or your cell phone
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2015, 03:10:29 PM »
Couldn't you use one of the password-protection apps, like Asus' own App Locker that was supplied with my Asus tablet, to prevent easy, casual snooping?

Is this available for phones, too? All phones, regardless of OS? And would it still allow an officer easy access to the e-documents he would need access to?
I can only speak (and only with limited knowledge) of the system I use.  If my device is typical, Android as an OS (at least 4.2.2) allows you to set an overall password for the whole device, just like a PC.  The app I referred to allows you to password-protect individual apps.  I'm assuming you would leave legally-required docs (at least, ones not too sensitive if seen by third parties) open, but your e-mail or whatever locked.  (There are other apps that can wipe an Android device remotely if it gets lost or stolen.)

And would an officer want to give you the time needed to activate it, before handing him the phone?
At this point, differences between the legal systems and policing poliies of different countries come into play, not to mention differing attitudes to the police.