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Author Topic: application help  (Read 4012 times)

kalos

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application help
« on: April 05, 2014, 08:52:13 AM »
hello!

I am trying to find a company to train me in software development. I have searched on the internet for software development companies, but most of them are companies with a small team that takes over projects and I don't feel such companies will have the resources and willingness to employ me as a trainee.

Can you suggest me please which other companies I should contact in order to have more luck? For example I don't think I will have any luck either, if I contact a big financial company, which will have to make a whole meeting for me in order to employ me. I don't know what companies to contact, they have to be medium size I think, but with a dedicated software development team.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

kalos

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Re: application help
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2014, 10:26:29 AM »
for example a large engineering company was offering few months ago traineeships in software development!

I wouldn't expect from such company to offer such traineeships

can you suggest me other companies that would be able to offer such traineeships?

Innuendo

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Re: application help
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2014, 01:59:42 PM »
What do you mean exactly by training you in software development? Teaching you how to program? How to manage a team of programmers working on a product? More details will make it easier for someone to make suggestions.

kalos

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Re: application help
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2014, 02:26:40 PM »
teach me how to program

Ath

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Re: application help
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2014, 03:51:33 PM »
What programming language and/or environment & OS would you prefer?

kalos

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Re: application help
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2014, 04:34:10 PM »
any that is in trend and will be in future demand and enable me to get (after years) one of those GBP80k per year positions

btw, I am around 30, am I too old to get into programming? because I know many at my age that program from 12 years old kids

kalos

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Re: application help
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2014, 05:30:26 PM »
any hint?????????

Ath

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Re: application help
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2014, 05:49:37 AM »
any that is in trend and will be in future demand and enable me to get (after years) one of those GBP80k per year positions

Well, based on your answer to my question, I'd suggest to obtain a crystal ball and predict the future... :-[

kalos

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Re: application help
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2014, 07:38:36 AM »
any that is in trend and will be in future demand and enable me to get (after years) one of those GBP80k per year positions

Well, based on your answer to my question, I'd suggest to obtain a crystal ball and predict the future... :-[

cmon there are so many articles about the job trends in IT!

TaoPhoenix

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Re: application help
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2014, 08:57:09 AM »
any that is in trend and will be in future demand and enable me to get (after years) one of those GBP80k per year positions

btw, I am around 30, am I too old to get into programming? because I know many at my age that program from 12 years old kids

Hmm. I think there's a problem with what you are asking, and I don't know if any more than 1% of companies would "train you cold". For example, borrowing from one of my theories about education, a college class is "not much more" than "40 lectures, books, and tests to prove you learned".

Let's just assume Windows will be here for a while to stay, so it can't hurt to at least start on Windows. So have you ever looked at a programming book? Talk about no-risk investment, that's one of the few areas there are lots of free programming books on the web. So grab one and dive into it, then report back here.

Caveat: it's not so much if you are too old at 30 (but yes Ageism *is* a factor in IT!), but if you have any native talent at all. Sadly, I absolutely do not, so I went into accounting.

The devastating problem with trying to learn at a company is that they have to pay by the hour. But while you're learning, you may simply need huge blocks of time just to get the basics! Most companies need someone with as many skills as you can muster "off the clock" to get the best hiring value for the buck.

So a fun way to get some crucial info is to look at the Coding Snacks here, then go fish on the web, and see if you can actually do one. Take a stopwatch and record the total time it takes you. Then ask the guy who did the snack how long it took them! Then see if one of them will let you see their code if you promise not to re-share it.

Very rough metric: If what takes the hotshots here a day, see if you can do it in under a week "cold". Then if you get stuck and see "the answer" and *still* can't figure it out in *another* week, then you might be in trouble! But at least you'll have some crucial info that you can share with us in about a month.

Start with one of the AHK/other scripts. So then when for example Skwire posts the script (he has posted a couple of them here), you might wonder how he knew to call ___function. So then that means you have to dig up a book on those functions, etc! To me that's how fast the early stages of learning expand, and what will burn tons of time.

I really want to know how you do with a month's time!


app103

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Re: application help
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2014, 07:25:04 PM »
I work for an e-learning company that charges a monthly fee for unlimited online access to all of their web development & design related ebooks and video courses. A major part of what I do there is read emails all day from people that have signed up, paid the membership fee, and then need some help getting started with accomplishing their goals. I write personalized learning paths for them, based on their goals and current skills.

Often, someone just like you will contact me, looking for a learning path that will take them from an empty wallet to a 6 figure income. That's their goal...to make a ton of money, and they think that learning programming is the easy fast ticket to do that.

Sadly, I can not provide them a learning path for that. I can only provide them with one if their actual goal is something much more realistic and based on books and courses that we actually have. We don't have any on how to get rich quick with very little work.

But since I have to provide them with something, I usually give them a very basic path through a list of books & courses, beginning with the basics of HTML and CSS, through Javascript and jQuery, then HTML5 & CSS3, and ending with PHP & MySQL. Then I tell them that when they get through that list, contact me again and I'll give them another one.

When I follow up with them 2 weeks later, to see how they are doing with their studies, they usually tell me that they haven't even started on the first book or course yet. They make a bunch of excuses, like being too busy to study. Remember, they are paying by the month for their membership.

They have wasted half of their first month, not even started with their studies, and when the end of the month comes along, they usually quit.

Contrast that with the people that really want to learn programming...

They come to me with some rather well defined goals that actually have something to do with programming. They have an idea of what languages they want or need to learn, what kinds of projects they want to work on. They may even be currently working on a personal project and looking for the skills they will need to complete it. They are passionate about it and already have some skills that they acquired on their own.

They never mention making money.

And when I follow up with them 2 weeks later, they have not only started on the first book or course, in many cases they are already on the 3rd book or course in the list that I gave them. They often have questions, are wondering if they should alter their goals to include more books and courses on other topics. And when the end of the month comes along, they renew their membership for another month, then another, and another. Sometimes they contact me again and ask how to switch to a yearly plan, because they are that committed to learning what they need to know.

So, until you can answer the question "where do you want to start learning?" with something tangible that people can offer you some good advice for, you are not going to get anywhere.

If you can't answer that question, it is the same as saying "I want to be a musician because some of them make a lot of money and I want to make a lot of money, too" and having no idea what instrument you want to play or even what genre of music.

We can't offer advice on finding the fast track to GBP80k per year.

Programming is not the fast track to getting there.

Programming is a long tough track of lifelong learning suitable for people that have a passion for it, that would do it even if they never have a hope of making a dime from it. To ask them to not code would be like asking them to not breathe. Does this describe you?

TaoPhoenix

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Re: application help
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2014, 07:38:22 PM »

Somewhere in the middle of App's post and mine, that's why I suggested a "bicycle training" mentality. I am on here about twice a year looking for cute little slightly-above-snacks type apps. But if you cannot even handle one of my "easy" ones (and yes they have pitfalls!), then your basic goal to earn tons of money as a hotshot is kaput.

So I say to you:
A. Do a Snack in AHK.
B. Do a Lunch in your choice of languages. (And submit it to NANY under Mouser's newly easing rules!)

If you cannot do that, you are sunk.


x16wda

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Re: application help
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2014, 08:25:20 PM »
Programming is not the fast track to getting there.

A programming language is an awesome puzzle kit that you can put together in countless ways, and in the end when you have made it do what you wanted to do, you get your payback from seeing it work. Then you look again and say "y'know I could have done it better this other way in that part right there..."

Aim to have fun figuring stuff out. There are so many languages, all so different in style and approach and how picky they are, that one of them will work well with how your brain works. The basic concepts will be the same - break a problem down into parts and build something to do each part. These days I am lazy (I write mostly in Rexx) but I've also used assemblers for 6502, 68000 and IBM mainframes, with a few other things thrown in. The details are wildly different, but the process is the same. Play around and get comfortable with one language, and others will come easier.

If it ends up being something that you can enjoy, then you win the game. If you can do it for a living, then that's the double bonus. But just remember, all that FOSS that's around is done for love, not for money! Programming can make your life much richer than your wallet.  :P
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Ath

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Re: application help
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2014, 01:39:09 AM »
Programming is a long tough track of lifelong learning suitable for people that have a passion for it,
Thank you April, for writing down (all) these words so concise; it exactly describes how I feel about the subject. :Thmbsup:

----

Another, related, personal observation: If you have to ask how to get started, you will never get started!

kalos

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Re: application help
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2014, 11:57:44 AM »
you misunderstood me
I am not after money only (well I am as we all are I suppose)
I wanted to discuss career prospects and advices among professionals who can give an insight from inside the industry
that's all
I know that money comes with hard work and willing to do so

x16wda

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Re: application help
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2014, 07:59:29 PM »
I'm not as close to the development side of our business (vs projects and break/fix), but I know we are always trying to find Sharepoint developers.  Not that I'd wish that on anyone...
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