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Last post Author Topic: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews  (Read 19304 times)

mouser

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Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« on: October 21, 2006, 07:43:51 AM »
Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews:



One From Read/Writeweb: http://www.readwrite...explorer7_review.php

Quote
IE 7 is a huge improvement over IE 6. There is evidence of really good effort and innovation here - but there are also traces of the old IE that just do not fit. It seems like the IE team was pressured to release the tool (because of what Firefox is bringing out) before they had a chance to rethink and redo everything. Hopefully the shortcomings will be cleaned up in IE 8 - and that we won't have to wait another five years before it comes out!

The bigger question is how does IE7 compare to Firefox 2.0 and is it enough to hang on to IE's huge market share? This is a tough question to answer... but in terms of performance, cohesiveness of features and availability of add-ons - Firefox 2.0 is in better shape right now.


And one from WinSuperSite: http://www.winsupers....com/reviews/ie7.asp

Quote
Internet Explorer 7 is an absolute no-brainer: If you use Windows, you should almost certainly upgrade immediately: IE 7's security features are top-notch and its functional improvements are nicely designed and greatly appreciated. For the short term, certain people may run into occasional Web site compatibility issues with IE 7, but I think those problems will fade quickly. Certainly, most major Web sites have already been upgraded to work correctly with Microsoft's latest Web browser. I've had a field day in the past making fun of IE, but with IE 7, the browser has finally turned the corner. This is one product that Microsoft should be quite proud of. My only question, really, is what took them so long? Seriously, download it now. Highly recommended.


wr975

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2006, 12:22:03 PM »
I upgraded to IE 7 today. First time I saw IE7 ever. Never bothered to get a beta or read a review.

Well, nice. They changed the layout.

Started Slimbrowser to see if it's still working. It is. No need to use IE7. It's just a security update for me. The options window is different, but that's the only change I see (now).

Quote
but in terms of performance, cohesiveness of features and availability of add-ons - Firefox 2.0 is in better shape right now.

Why is every person acting like there's no frontend for IE (like Maxthon, Slimbrowser, and so on)? They're working with IE7, bring in tons of features and offer great performance (because of IE). I know Firefox fanboys will rip IE7 apart and tell the world how unsafe it is... but I don't care. I just hope these sites with a super-annoying "You're using IE! Microsoft is the devil! Use Firefox now and save the free world!" pop-ups will stop doing so (like the one at www.workrave.com).



« Last Edit: October 21, 2006, 12:24:03 PM by wr975 »

dk70

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2006, 04:45:22 PM »
Why is every person acting like there is no stable, not memory eating, extensions for Firefox?  Goes both ways wr975. Wait for the world to see the light  8) You are a pioneer so must be brave.

Anyway, the world still use IE6 or IE7 and will continue to do so. Except a few sites most of these crusade pics you will see where may be 50-75% already use Firefox. They make their use of internet into a big personal deal and so have chosen Firefox. Also some have hated IE6 with a passion and not just for security reasons. MS them self say it more or less directly in this presentation of IE7 http://channel9.msdn...t.aspx?postid=246705 Easy to admit IE6 was poorly maintained, showing its age, laughing at strange relations to web standards now they offer IE7  8) At some point they are praising TAB Browsing!! How they try to get rid of old habits etc. May be IE7 would have come out sooner if MS people had a broader view of what is possible. These people seem completely unaware of Maxthon, Firefox, Opera, even the terrible tabs from MSN seachbar - they live in MS land of course. No reason to love them though, may be something else...

You will like what they say, "Back with a vengeance", will not leave it at IE7. More frequent updates, supported now, helping web development highest priority.

Actually I think it will be hard for some Firefox users to swallow they no longer can sing the old song of "safer". I assume and believe that is the case. MS hate will still be strong as ever but does not sell that many tickets - may be they will just focus on own strengths, Firefox 3.0 is being baked.

Signed up for Maxthon 2.0?, not close to being done yet but looks very nice. Just noticed it says close to 70 million downloads on Maxthon site. Add Avantbrowser, Slimbrowser etc. and there is a crowd!

Renegade

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2006, 10:17:34 PM »
Well, I'm off to finally upgrade to IE7 now. I'm hoping that it really lives up to what I've heard about it.

The thing that I think I'm most looking forward to is seeing IE7 kick FF's butt and shut the "IE is insecure" crowd up. The reporting on security issues has been so horribly lobsided that I'm sick and tired of hearing the anti-MS crowd chanting their mindless mantras. And most if it basically comes from the FOSS/OSS or Apple camps.

If nothing else, I'd just like to hear some more intelligent reporting. I'm hoping IE7 helps push things towards that. I'l start my mantra now, "Let's have some balanced and honest reporting... Let's have some balanced and honest reporting... Let's have some balanced and honest reporting... "


Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Josh

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2006, 11:11:18 PM »
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! If I had some DCredits to give out, you'd get them renegade!

I too am tired of the "IE is so insecure" bs. Put any other browser in IE's spot, and I guarantee we would see the tables turn. Market share is proprtionally related to the number and frequency of exploits found. If only the FF crowd could learn this.;

allen

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2006, 11:25:28 PM »
I'm happily an Opera user.  There are many happy Firefox users.  There are also happy IE users.  The bottom line: to each his own.

In my personal opinion, IE7 is a much better application than IE6 -- it's usable.  So for those using IE, they're better off than they were.  Developers who sniff and or develop for only certain browsers are only antagonizing the issue. Save for fringe things -- plugins, very new protocols, etc. -- all the major browsers are capable of rendering most of the same webstuff.  Find the features/interface/etc. you like and there's your browser.

Most of Internet Explorer's insecurity stems as inheretence from it being the most commonly used browser.  All browsers have their holes--but the software with the bigger user share gets the most focus on finding and exploiting holes.

IE7 won't tear me away from Opera, but it sure did replace IE6 on my system.  :)

Renegade

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2006, 09:14:18 AM »
Well, so far so good. I like a lot of what I'm seeing in IE7, but I'm not liking the lack of mouse gestures.

Does anyone know of a decent add-in for IE7 that does mouse gestures? I do miss that a lot.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

dk70

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2006, 09:27:24 AM »
http://www.enhanceie...om/ie/essentials.asp have something. Site made by one of the guys in the video btw. Or use Strokeit. Works in all browsers  :D Under "Tweaks" you can find the old speed trick he talks about.

Yep, it is a nice browser and hopefully it will help fix those pages not rendering properly in Firefox, Opera - thanks to old IE6/MS code. There are more than a few of those. Most visited sites not big problem of course but try dig into a business directory in a small country and you will see strange things. With commitment to standards general internet browsing will eventually get better. IE7 also important to Firefox users.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2006, 09:29:00 AM by dk70 »

Darwin

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2006, 10:29:39 AM »
Hi Renegade (how's Seoul treating you?),

It's a bit more drastic (or perhaps less, depending on your viewpoint), but you could install Maxthon , which comes with mouse gestures built-in and they work brilliantly. The developer is working on Maxthon 2.0, which promises to be a big step forward, but the latest build is very solid and very capable.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Renegade

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2006, 11:03:19 AM »
Hello Darwin,

Well, Seoul is still Seoul. Good and bad. But things are pretty good everything considered. I was out with a friend a few times as his life went from mere "train wreck" to "World Trade Center". Yep. Bad beyond comprehension. So in light of that, man... Things are hunkey-dorey here for me! :D

But really, Seoul is a good place to be.

Does Maxthon use shodocvw.dll and MSHTML.tlb? (I thought it did. Need to double check though.) Or if I install it will it still use Trident? (That's the IE core.) If I do try it, I'd like to be still using the IE7 core.

I installed http://www.ysgyfarnog.co.uk/utilities/mousegestures/ and so far it seems ok, but I've only used it like 5x or so.

But on the IE topic, I just releasea a mini-app that I created for myself that uses IE automation, and things went perfectly smooth once IE7 was installed. Couldn't be happier on that front. No additional coding required. I'll post details in the appropriate place for that though once I have time. (It's 1am now :P )

Cheers!
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2006, 11:13:45 AM »
Ok. I'm sold on IE7. It's getting regular usage from now on.

Check the memory footprint. It's WAY lower than Firefox. Massively! At the moment I'd expect to use about 150MB or so in FF, but IE7 had me clocking in at a cool 30~50MB of memory used!

Nice!
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

mouser

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2006, 11:44:53 AM »
i just posted about your tool renegade: http://www.donationc...index.php?topic=5894

Carol Haynes

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2006, 11:59:32 AM »
Ok. I'm sold on IE7. It's getting regular usage from now on.

Check the memory footprint. It's WAY lower than Firefox. Massively! At the moment I'd expect to use about 150MB or so in FF, but IE7 had me clocking in at a cool 30~50MB of memory used!

Nice!

Unfair comarison - most of the IE libraries are incoroporated in Windows and so are already loaded with IExplore.EXE ... but having said that they are still loaded even if you don't use IE so I suppose there is an effective memory saving.

dk70

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2006, 12:37:04 PM »
Thanks for the balanced and honest report Renegade  8) Judging by some Firefox complaints there will be more.

Same type of confirmation here http://www.lifehacke...-showdown-208908.php

I cannot confirm but have always been unlucky when comparing memory usage between browsers. Always end up concluding difference is not worth the hassle of testing somewhat properly, like taking caching or special resource consuming features like Undo/prefetching into account. Have never seen anything like 100-300% difference when conditions are attempted similar = not singing "Take back the web" hit or mumbling "Feature not a bug my xxx". Modern browsers have potential to eat lots of ram which is good. Different behavoir in how.

Try http://www.eyeball-series.org/ for high IE7/Firefox/Opera numbers  :D

Josh

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2006, 12:42:29 PM »
How is it NOT fair? Opera starts up just as fast as IE6, IE7 and FF while uses far less memory. Note, YMMV, but that seems to be a general consensus amongst various forums and web sites.

Black Mamba

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2006, 12:46:58 PM »
If you like the Menu Bar on top (and I'm sure you will) try this reg tweak provided by MajorGeeks.  :Thmbsup:

Carol Haynes

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2006, 01:02:39 PM »
How is it NOT fair? Opera starts up just as fast as IE6, IE7 and FF while uses far less memory. Note, YMMV, but that seems to be a general consensus amongst various forums and web sites.

Simple I wasn't taking about Opera and neither was Renegade ?

Josh

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2006, 01:05:47 PM »
Well, if it works for one browser...shouldnt it for all browsers? I am not an opera fanatic, mind you, I do use IE7 now as I want to test it for a month or two (as it seems very promising AND I FINALLY GET BACK ROBOFORM!!!!!!!), but I do think that the standard works just as well for one browser as it does when comparing it to another.

Darwin

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2006, 03:40:17 PM »
I'm with you on the Roboform issue, Josh. It's a deal breaker for me with Opera. I have Opera installed but rarely use it because I am that dependent on Roboform...
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

f0dder

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2006, 03:45:47 PM »
Carol: I use xPlorer^2 and BlackBox, so I shouldn't have much of the IE-specific stuff preloaded... yet IExplorer is a LOT faster than FireFox in terms of startup time. If you count second-time launches, when stuff is in the filesystem cache, IE is still noticably faster to start then FF. Opera is a bit slower than IE, but a bunch faster than FF.

Yeah, I do have some extensions loaded in FF, to make it usable - but even a vanilla FF is sluggish (1.5.0.7, not going to install a RC on my main box).

Yet I still use FF... it still has fewer exploits than IE, and because it's not in as much use as IE is, fewer sites also target FF. And even though things like Avant and Maxthon make IE more ustable, I still find FF + extensions are better. YMMV. I'd use Opera if there weren't those few annoying things I can't entirely put my finger on...

- carpe noctem

zridling

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2006, 01:29:47 AM »
I admit I love the new IE7 interface and tabs, and am looking forward to Maxthon 2. But like Allen, I spend a lot of time with Opera now that I'm learning its full customizability, e.g., you can combine more than one command into one keyboard shortcut. And like Allen, I'm neutral on browsers: just use what you love, as long as they serve up sites and you can tolerate each one's faults and quirks, it's all good.

REkz

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2006, 01:57:03 AM »
I had a client that installed IE 7 Beta awhile back.  Knocked out a software tool that used IE framework.  He tried uninstalled but couldn't do it.

I guess there was a 39 step manual regedit method to uninstall, but once the site-tech had done that, he couldn't get IE 6 back on -- it would just say newer IE 7 is on and would repair the install (!!!!).  Eventually his PC HD got imaged!

Renegade

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2006, 02:51:19 AM »
I had a client that installed IE 7 Beta awhile back.
And you didn't fire him as a client?   :P

Man, there are pieces of beta software that you just don't mess with. IE is one of them. Other good examples of beta software that nobody should ever tough include disk imaging software, backup solutions, partitioning software, etc. On a test box, sure, but man... I'd be way too scared to try something like those even inside of a virtual machine.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Carol Haynes

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2006, 04:18:14 AM »
Carol: I use xPlorer^2 and BlackBox, so I shouldn't have much of the IE-specific stuff preloaded... yet IExplorer is a LOT faster than FireFox in terms of startup time. If you count second-time launches, when stuff is in the filesystem cache, IE is still noticably faster to start then FF. Opera is a bit slower than IE, but a bunch faster than FF.

Yeah, I do have some extensions loaded in FF, to make it usable - but even a vanilla FF is sluggish (1.5.0.7, not going to install a RC on my main box).

Yet I still use FF... it still has fewer exploits than IE, and because it's not in as much use as IE is, fewer sites also target FF. And even though things like Avant and Maxthon make IE more ustable, I still find FF + extensions are better. YMMV. I'd use Opera if there weren't those few annoying things I can't entirely put my finger on...

When you say "xPlorer^2 and BlackBox" does that mean you have uninstalled all Internet Explorer and Explorer components from Windows ? AS I understand it most of the components for IE are so deeply embedded in Windows that they are loaded whether you use IE or Explorer or not. Any uninstall of IE is only really superficial and doesn't remove all the components. It is therefore not surprising that IE is quicker to load than FF (mine is too) but you have to take into account that most of IE is already loaded during the startup sequence. If you use a plugin to minimise FF to the system tray (effectively what IE does invisibly) then FF would load pretty quickly. Try https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/2110/

f0dder

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Re: Two New Internet Explorer 7 Reviews
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2006, 08:30:12 AM »
Nope, haven't removed the IE and Explorer components - it would be pretty hard to do in the first place, and a lot of other apps would break. I still doubt that the IE-specific controls (like the html rendering) are loaded automatically, but I'd have to do a little more research.

Of course there are controls, the so-called "common controls" ("un"common in the way you program them, by the way ;)) that were originally introduced with IE - I'm not taking them into consideration though, since just about every software these days use them.

Quote
If you use a plugin to minimise FF to the system tray (effectively what IE does invisibly) then FF would load pretty quickly.
Actually no - the FF plugin just keeps FF minimized, whereas with IE the process terminates. If you load the browser again right away, it's executables and DLLs will be in the filesystem cache and thus won't have to get loaded from disk... but FF is still a lot heavier to load. This is not because of IE "cheating", but because FF is pretty amazingly bloated.

At any rate, Opera loads almost as fast as IE, where FF is ridiculously slow.
- carpe noctem