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Last post Author Topic: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?  (Read 15548 times)

cranioscopical

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 08:29:57 PM »
Quote from: Stephen66515
By the way. coming onto this forum, with the attitude "We are awesome and don't need to answer to you"
You're going to have a bad time.

Gee. I take profound exception to that!
Please be sure to understand that you're not speaking for everyone here and, if you thing you're speaking on behalf of DonationCoder, I suggest that you 'moderate' your own tone.
 



Stephen66515

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2013, 09:42:18 PM »
Cranio, I will PM you in regards to this.  I do not wish this topic to get de-railed again. 

(I will be changing my forum sig, to state, that all my posts, and comments, are my own personal opinion)

wraith808

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2013, 09:50:58 PM »
Cranio, I will PM you in regards to this.  I do not wish this topic to get de-railed again. 

(I will be changing my forum sig, to state, that all my posts, and comments, are my own personal opinion)

That won't necessarily have the desired effect- the Global Moderator tag speaks louder than any .sig
* wraith808 shrugs

Stephen66515

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2013, 09:52:48 PM »
Actually, screw it...y'all can see my statement on this...

<Unofficial Personal Statement>
Quote from: Stephen66515
I don't want that thread getting out of hand again.

I make no intention to speak on behalf of DonationCoder as a whole...people here have loud enough voices to speak for themselves.

I chose to opt-out of that discussion after discussing with mouser, my motivations for posting what I posted, of which, he forwarded to the Developer (Or sales guy...dunno which he was to be honest.) - and which resulted in an amicable result where he offered a free trial of his software so people could try it out.

If you noticed, mouser posted that he wanted to get the thread back on track, and I had already pointed out that I had no intention of posting there again, so, I didn't really appreciate having to go back there, especially for this purpose.

</Unofficial Personal Statement>



Now that is cleared up, I hope this thread can actually get back on topic.  Please do not continue de-railing.  If you have any questions that are unrelated to this, please PM the person you want to speak to...if you want to ignore me, ignore me...if you have a problem with what I have said, PM me.  

I will no longer be monitoring this thread for ANY purpose.
* Stephen66515 is out.

f0dder

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2013, 09:35:21 AM »
I've posted some preliminary findings.

TL;DR: it doesn't do anything magical (it's DeviceIoControlFSCTL_SET_COMPRESSION) just as I expected), and as I expected it does indeed go gung-ho on your partition - temporarily disabling NTFS security while doing so. Does end up with (quite a fair bit) more compressed files than you get by ticking Windows' "compress this drive", but it's also leaves you with heavily fragmented and really can't be recommended for SSDs.
- carpe noctem

simonking

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2013, 03:06:33 AM »
I am really glad you have finally had a chance to try the software, and establish in fact, that despite being based on safe and proven NTFS compression, it still manages to significantly outperform Windows itself.

As you have now seen for yourself, none of our claims are false and the product works exactly as it is being marketed. While I would welcome an apology from you, I happily accept all your time spent researching, as well as your accurate report of your findings, in its stead. Thank you for being open minded!

Please note that fragmentation is not an issue for SSDs due to zero impact on random access times throughout the disk. Most people with mechanical drives would not need a drive compressor anyways these days, since mechanical drive space is ample. This is why I project that the main beneficiaries of MagicRAR's Drive Press would be SSD users who are still paying a premium for space. But nothing stops mechanical drive users from enjoying it either, if they need more room.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 04:16:14 AM by simonking »

f0dder

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2013, 06:39:49 AM »
As you have now seen for yourself, none of our claims are false and the product works exactly as it is being marketed. While I would welcome an apology from you, I happily accept all your time spent researching, as well as your accurate report of your findings, in its stead. Thank you for being open minded!
1) you claim Windows is buggy - this is false.
2) All my statements before testing were correct, so there's nothing to apologize for - and considering your own tone, I will not even apologize for the language I've used.

Please note that fragmentation is not an issue for SSDs due to zero impact on random access times throughout the disk.
SSDs have vastly better random I/O characteristic than HDDs, but you still incur overhead from fragmentation - claiming anything else is bullshit, and easily verifiable by checking benchmarks of sequential vs. random I/O. I'm not worried about performance, though, but the other problems compression & fragmentation poses for SSDs.

First, you should read up on write vs. erase block sizes, wear leveling algorithms, and how various SSD controllers optimize - the TL;DR version is 1) that you do want to minimize small & scattered writes (hint: write-block sizes are larger than on HDDs, and there's the even-larger erase-block sizes to consider as well). And 2) for a several SSD controllers, compressed data both means lower speed and worse wear-leveling.

Second, you should read up on how NTFS compression is implemented. (TL;DR: for 4k cluster size, compression is done in 64kb chunks). It means a lot more fragmentation - by design. Now, imagine what happens if you change data in the middle of a compressed chunk? Just how the split is done depends on the compressibility of the data you're writing, but there's a decent chance you end up needing to allocate two chunks - which will cause extra fragmentation, and will turn a possibly perfect-eraseblock-aligned write into several eraseblock-updates. Oops, you've just reduced the lifetime of the SSD a bit more than necessary.

And while the filesystem fragmentation is already bad after initial compression (531k excess fragments for a tiny 134k filesystem, ouch!), it's only going to get worse over time.

I've yet to check what happens when you enable compression for tiny files (MFT-resident data) - I'll take a look at that when I get home from work. But if turning on compression for tiny files means they're moved non-resident, you're adding a lot of additional waste. From the list of uncompressed files are running DrivePress, it seems like you go gung-ho and indiscriminately compress everything on the filesystem (apart from those few folders that you can't access, and the very few boot-related files in your protection list).
- carpe noctem

simonking

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2013, 08:42:31 AM »
I believe you have already seen for yourself (and shown everybody) the bug in Windows I am referring to.

You have also disproven virtually all of your initial statements with your research. You did this, not me - thank you.

I would also refrain from spreading FUD about NTFS compression itself, to which you seem to have shifted your targets.

tomos

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2013, 09:09:38 AM »
^ If the developer doesnt care to respond to the last points made; ignores responses made by the investigator; misrespresents said investegator's research; and makes baseless claims spurious at this stage of discussions - I would say the case is closed.

Anyone who reads the thread at this stage can see enough to decide whether they want to use the product or not.
A Big Thank You to f0dder, for all the brilliant research :up:

:Wizard:
Tom

wraith808

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2013, 10:11:55 AM »
^ +1 and well said!  :Thmbsup:

Josh

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2013, 10:13:22 AM »
All,

Let's try and remain calm and continue focusing on having a constructive discussion.

Jibz

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2013, 10:25:00 AM »
I agree; if this discussion is just turning into free advertisement space, it is not worth the time :up:.

Stephen66515

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2013, 10:55:44 AM »
I said I was not monitoring this thread...Well, after numerous posts here, a few complaints, and a quick read of what has been happening, I am back.

All,

Let's try and remain calm and continue focusing on having a constructive discussion.

Josh's words here pretty much sum it up.

Play nice.

DC Regulars...You are better than this.  Don't provoke, don't instigate, don't be trolls.

SimonKing: This is not a forum for advertising.  Please keep your comments to the point.  I have no problems with you posting your retorts here, but please do so, in a helpful manner.

BeNiceRnd.jpg

PS:  I am pretty sure, if things continue how down this current road, that this thread will simply be locked.  I am not saying it will be me that does it, plenty of people have complained about the mood here, and EVERYONE commenting here, is to blame.  Yes, I include myself in this.

...Don't make me get the hose out on you people...

f0dder

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2013, 11:06:03 AM »
^ If the developer doesnt care to respond to the last points made; ignores responses made by the investigator; misrespresents said investegator's research; and makes baseless claims spurious at this stage of discussions - I would say the case is closed.
Indeed - I don't have more to add to this thread, the facts are on the table.

I predict the other thread is just about fizzled out as well.
- carpe noctem

simonking

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2013, 12:29:15 PM »
^ If the developer doesnt care to respond to the last points made; ignores responses made by the investigator; misrespresents said investegator's research; and makes baseless claims spurious at this stage of discussions - I would say the case is closed.

Anyone who reads the thread at this stage can see enough to decide whether they want to use the product or not.
A Big Thank You to f0dder, for all the brilliant research :up:

:Wizard:

Please excuse me if you feel my responses have been insufficient; I have truly done the best that I can, and I realize that may not be good enough for some people. I however believe that through the orchestration of the MagicRAR Drive Press give-away, I have actually been able to clear up a lot of the misunderstandings, which had previously been stated as fact.

I feel that we have come full circle, where the original marketing claims made by MagicRAR have been validated through the efforts of the very same people who were claiming them to be marketing hyperbole.

That is good enough for me - I do not expect any remainder pedantic obsession would be useful to anybody.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 12:48:22 PM by simonking »

tomos

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2013, 01:26:38 PM »
Let's try and remain calm and continue focusing on having a constructive discussion.

hi Josh,
my last post was an honest and fair analysis (okay, okay, not very amicable :-\) pointing out that I reckoned there was little chance of any more constructive discussion. This has been confirmed since - on both sides as I read it. Simonking is doing an excellent job for his company, but as you can see there's no more debate. Because of that I request that both related threads be locked.
Tom
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 01:57:09 PM by tomos »

f0dder

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2013, 01:32:50 PM »
Because of that I request that both related threads be locked.
Dunno if they need to be locked - they're pretty dead now from my viewpoint.

One last thing coming up in a few, though, since I promised it: working on a small test to see what happens wrt. very small files (MFT-resident) when you apply compression.

Here, results from testing some very small files on an NTFS volume with 1k clusters. The files were highly comrpessible (filled with A's). The lines with "x is UNcompressed" (etc) are from a small tool I whipped up, the middle parts is the output from Microsoft's COMPACT.EXE.

small100.txt is UNcompressed, 100/100, (MFT resident), 1 fragments
small500.txt is UNcompressed, 500/500, (MFT resident), 1 fragments
small1000.txt is UNcompressed, 1000/1000,  1 fragments
small5000.txt is UNcompressed, 5000/5000,  1 fragments
====================================================
 Compressing files in R:\temp\z\

small100.txt              100 :       100 = 1,0 to 1 [OK]
small1000.txt            1000 :      1000 = 1,0 to 1 [OK]
small500.txt              500 :       500 = 1,0 to 1 [OK]
small5000.txt            5000 :      1024 = 4,9 to 1 [OK]

4 files within 1 directories were compressed.
6.600 total bytes of data are stored in 2.624 bytes.
The compression ratio is 2,5 to 1.
====================================================
small100.txt is compressed, 100/100, (MFT resident), 1 fragments
small500.txt is compressed, 500/500, (MFT resident), 1 fragments
small1000.txt is compressed, 1000/1000,  2 fragments
small5000.txt is compressed, 5000/1024,  2 fragments


Observations:
1) MFT-resident data stays resident - good!
2) The really small files aren't actually compressed (GetCompressedFileSize == GetFileSizeEx, see MSDN) - they are flagged compressed, though, so will be compressed once they grow.
3) For compressed files, we get "size on disk" (taking clusters into account), not "actual numCompressedBytes" - which makes sense.
4) When compressing non-resident files, we get one excess fragment.
- carpe noctem
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 02:24:41 PM by f0dder »

simonking

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2013, 09:44:46 PM »
We've recently released MagicRAR 8.11 with the following enhancements and fixes:

- Archive operations on disk image formats (powered by the WinImage SDK) now accurately display progress.
- The Outlook Add-In now bases the file name of the automatically compressed attachment on the names of the files being attached.
- The Archive Folders Control Panel link did not work on second and subsequent clicks on 32 bit versions of Windows Vista and newer.
- Archive Folders memory management has been streamlined.

Please download and update to the latest version of MagicRAR 8.11 at http://www.magicrar.com/. Please post here, or email us, if you have any questions or concerns!

simonking

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2013, 10:03:39 AM »
We have posted MagicRAR 8.2 on the public download site at http://www.magicrar.com/ with the following enhancements and bug fixes:

- Taking ownership of archive files occasionally failed when a UserChoice value was present in the registry.
- Icons for installation modes and maintenance modes in the InstallAware setup have been modernized.

Please enjoy. If you already have a key, please keep in mind that this upgrade is 100% free!

mouser

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2013, 10:08:55 AM »
Simon, we have a kind of informal rule here about frequency of commercial authors posting update announcements.. This site is not really the best place to post such announcements.

Zatronium

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2013, 11:07:54 AM »
Found this thread on google while searching for something else. Thought it was a neat bit of software... Then I realized I've used this program before. It's a ripoff of CompreXX:

comprexx.jpg
MagicRAR1.jpg


comprexx2.png
MagicRAR2.png


comprexx3.png
MagicRAR3.jpg

The compression comparison feature does work in CompreXX, I didn't install the entire package for the screenshot. It's a pain in the ass to uninstall.

In the other thread Simon says:
Quote
you will most probably find that MagicRAR Drive Press, due to its low level nature, is the most well tested component of the entire suite. Hunting bugs elsewhere would be a lot more rewarding for you, I promise

Yeah because he probably didn't write the code. Drive Press is the only thing he added, and it's questionable whether he wrote that himself. Not to mention Drive Press literally kills your SSD and makes HDDs run slower.

Both this thread and the other one are basically redirecting people to stolen software, unless Simon can prove that he owns the rights to Comprexx.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 11:15:10 AM by Zatronium »

mouser

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2013, 11:19:12 AM »
Hi Zatronium --

I've spoken to the author of Comprexx and he is in fact teamed up with the MagicRar folks -- so that's why you are noticing that it's the same underlying system.  They are created by same author.

Curt

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2013, 02:51:49 PM »
Did any of you ever test the program?  :-\
Did you know that MagicRAR is a Microsoft BizSpark startup company?

If you want to test the program, you can have a free license key now, right "now":

Quote from: NotebookReview.com
[Giveaway] MagicRAR 8.5 The Next-Generation Archiver for Windows FREE for 1 Week

-the "1 week" is ending tonight, Sunday 17th March 2013, European American time

http://forum.noteboo...ows-free-1-week.html

http://www.promaxum....om/testimonials.html
http://www.magicrar.com/awards.html
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 03:01:04 PM by Curt, Reason: Server in USA »

tomos

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2013, 03:01:01 PM »
Did any of you ever test the program?  :-\

did you miss f0dder's in depth testing?
(In this and another thread)
Tom

mwb1100

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Re: MagicRAR Drive Press - worth anything?
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2013, 03:15:56 PM »
Interesting that the 'reviewer' in the notebookreview.com posted left by Curt has the user name, mimarsinan, which is a name also associated with CompreXX that Zatronium and Mouser pointed out is largely the same code as MagicRAR.  Yet mimarsinan's post doesn't mention any affiliation with MagicRAR.

MagicRAR may well be useful software, but I'm not left with the best feeling about it.