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Last post Author Topic: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?  (Read 184706 times)

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #300 on: October 10, 2013, 11:56:06 AM »
And from the pure malice department:

http://www.coindesk....ank-account-bitcoin/

Quote
Capital One has closed a bank account belonging to a company that produces metal medallions after it started selling commemorative silver and copper bitcoin coins.

Rob Gray, CEO of Mulligan Mint, Inc said Capital One gave him no warning before it closed his company’s bank account. He has since contacted the bank, but isn’t satisfied with its response.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #301 on: October 10, 2013, 01:08:50 PM »
from the pure malice department:


Like sharing sites, Bitcoin is something some very powerful interests want to see go away.

So no surprise the banking and credit card systems (handmaidens to the Powers that Be) are doing their part to help out.

I'm waiting for Google to be ordered to stop indexing and providing search results for the terms 'Bitcoin' and 'crypto-currency.' They're already trying to have Google do that with VPN and share sites in some countries.

Only a matter of time...

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #302 on: October 11, 2013, 01:25:38 AM »
I'm waiting for Google to be ordered to stop indexing and providing search results for the terms 'Bitcoin' and 'crypto-currency.' They're already trying to have Google do that with VPN and share sites in some countries.

That's a different topic, but Google *IS* already and has been for some time censoring and politically skewing search results. Their search results are NOT as relevant as they'd like to say they are. They are purposefully and maliciously skewing search results. I'm not the only one to have noticed this. Google is playing the part of a political activist for the establishment. They are shills. No further comment on it as there is no point in trying to convince people - they can only go out and look for themselves.

That aside...



Want to see some regulators and the like get their asses handed to them? Crappy audio quality, and fairly long, but man... Worth it.



Check at about 37:00 for a question that gets nothing but silence because they can't answer. The looks on their faces says it all. (It's about 1 minute.)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 01:38:13 AM by Renegade »

tomos

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #303 on: October 11, 2013, 06:27:34 AM »
^video visuals reminds me of the last supper...

Screenshot - 2013-10-11 , 13_25_15.pngDoes anyone here use Bitcoins?

(will probably take some time to see who that's ironic for)
Tom

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #304 on: October 11, 2013, 08:33:22 AM »
^video visuals reminds me of the last supper...
 (see attachment in previous post)
(will probably take some time to see who that's ironic for)

Well, in this case they all got crucified, and they all deserved it. :P
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

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Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #305 on: October 15, 2013, 08:22:18 AM »
Semi-quasi-cross post:

http://www.donationc....msg340024#msg340024

If you're a gamer, you're going to crap yourself. LeetCoin is for you.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #306 on: October 16, 2013, 02:29:22 AM »
This is hilarious!  :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup: :Thmbsup:



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Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #307 on: October 19, 2013, 09:47:55 AM »
Here's a bitcointalk forum thread with bitcoin documentaries & short films:

https://bitcointalk....x.php?topic=268955.0

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

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Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #308 on: October 22, 2013, 06:21:32 AM »
Get ready for Bitcoin in the news.

It broke $200 USD and passed CNY 1337 (just how cool is that?), and still has strong upwards pressure. Though there is a wall currently at $206 USD, it seems the psychological pressure is pushing up from $200. The days of $100 BTC are gone.

Both BitStamp and BTCChina have overtaken Mt.Gox in BTC volume.

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/

Screenshot - 10_22_2013 , 10_12_29 PM.png

(You can see the red dot in that screenshot under "30 days" - that's the Silk Road theft/destruction and kidnapping of the Dread Pirate Roberts, Ross Ulbricht.)

We'll see another flurry of activity in about 1.5 to 2 hours when the east coast of North America wakes up.

In this clip, an analyst talks about how the Chinese government is bitcoin-friendly:

http://youtu.be/BXDSmPk1lQg?t=11m10s

It's cued up to that part.

So far, it seems like nothing is remotely close to hindering Bitcoin. The Silk Road incident only led to a much stronger bitcoin. The strong demand for BTC in China has driven up bitcoin prices, and that's likely to continue with the kinds of volumes that we've been seeing.

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #309 on: October 22, 2013, 07:12:24 AM »
And here come the media reports:

http://techcrunch.co...in-breaks-200-again/

Quote
After Silk Road Closure, And With Baidu’s Blessing, Bitcoin Breaks $200 Again

The value of a single Bitcoin has broken the $200 mark for only the second time. The cost of a single Bitcoin hit a high of more than $205 earlier today on the biggest Bitcoin exchange, Mt. Gox, although it’s since dipped slightly. At the time of writing it’s still trading at above $200.

More at the link.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #310 on: October 22, 2013, 10:24:18 AM »
^Again, if Bitcoin is officially supposed to be a currency alternative and not an investment, why does it's constantly spiraling value keep being touted as a proof of concept?

Currency needs to maintain a fairly stable and predictable value in order to be a usable medium of exchange. Otherwise it gets dumped whenever it drops and hoarded when it's rising. Neither case is good for a given currency, or the the economy which said currency gets used in.

wraith808

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #311 on: October 22, 2013, 10:53:19 AM »
It's very much like gold, IMO, and the reason that we moved away from the gold standard (and the reason that I think it was a good thing to move away from it).  It's a commodity, which means that it *is* an investment.  Just one that is used as currency also.

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #312 on: October 22, 2013, 11:46:42 AM »
^Again, if Bitcoin is officially supposed to be a currency alternative and not an investment, why does it's constantly spiraling value keep being touted as a proof of concept?

Its increasing value is an illustration of confidence in it.

Please name another currency that has confidence within an order of magnitude like bitcoin. ;)

Currency needs to maintain a fairly stable and predictable value in order to be a usable medium of exchange.

That doesn't follow.

If by "fairly stable" you mean its purchasing power doesn't change, then no currency is "fairly stable". If you mean that the rate of change is slow, then no - bitcoin is not stable compared to other currencies.

Perhaps that would be better phrased as "volatility".

However, it predictably goes up.

The USD predictably goes down. As does the CAD, AUD, GBP, EUR, CNY, JPY, KRW, etc. etc. etc.

This is relevant:

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Gresham%27s_law


But none of that matters in the least. You're wrong about "in order to be a usable medium of exchange". The problem has been solved by BitPay. (** This is about frames of reference, but that gets icky.)

https://bitpay.com/

So you can accept bitcoins, and have them instantly turned into fiat.

Here's a fun example with you and me as the main characters! :D

Say you are selling nice, super-sexy CentOS servers that you've tweaked out yourself for the paultry price of only USD $2,000.

Now, I on the other hand am but a mere customer. I drool over those wonderful machines you've built, and start saving up.

However, being a smart saver, and knowing that it will take me some time (say 4 months), I buy bitcoins.

Let's also assume that by the time I have the $2,000, your prices will likely go up about 5% or so ($2,100).

However, being somewhat forgetful and not very good with numbers, I spend $2,000 worth of fiat on bitcoins over that 4 months, and when I check the current value, my bitcoins are worth $3,200.

Now, I can either cash them out and purchase your server, or if you accept Bitpay, I can pay you the $2,100 for the server in bitcoins.

Bitpay processes the transaction and delivers either BTC or USD to you, the merchant. You choose what you want to "get out" of the transaction.

I then take the other $1,100 in bitcoins and throw a sexy-server party. (That means at a joint with topless waitresses!) :D


Otherwise it gets dumped whenever it drops and hoarded when it's rising.

That doesn't follow. Bitpay has solved that problem.

Here's the quick summary of the above:

1) I take my fiat and dump it into BTC.
2) When I need to buy something, I use a merchant that uses Bitpay.

I end up ahead because by doing that (1) I have increased my purchasing power in the future.

It is then ALWAYS in my best interest to dump fiat into bitcoins in so far as I have access to merchants that use Bitpay (or a similar solution) and sell the products/services that I will need.

When the products/services I need/want aren't offered by a merchant that accepts bitcoins, then I need to balance the liquidity of immediate fiat cash on hand vs. the inconvenience of exchanging BTC for fiat.

There's also balancing for volatility, but it's not that hard.

e.g. If you put in $10 today, and next week it's worth $12, but when you get to the store to pay, it's only worth $11, what do you really have to complain about? You had X amount of purchasing power last week, and when you bought some product, you had 10% more purchasing power.


Think of it as putting food in the freezer. The food is preserved there for when you need it. Leave it out on the counter, and it will rot. Inflation is destructive like rot. It destroys your ability to save wealth for the future. I've just outlined how to preserve purchasing power similar to how you'd freeze food.

So, have I convinced you any yet? ;)
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Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #313 on: October 22, 2013, 11:50:17 AM »
It's very much like gold, IMO, and the reason that we moved away from the gold standard (and the reason that I think it was a good thing to move away from it).

Errr... uh, I'm not so sure about that being a good thing. Look at people's purchasing power over the last 200 or 300 years or so. The last 100 years have been a train wreck.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #314 on: October 22, 2013, 12:07:02 PM »
It's very much like gold, IMO, and the reason that we moved away from the gold standard (and the reason that I think it was a good thing to move away from it).

Errr... uh, I'm not so sure about that being a good thing. Look at people's purchasing power over the last 200 or 300 years or so. The last 100 years have been a train wreck.


I'm not so sure about that.

If anybody today thinks the economy and standard of living in the western world during the 1800s was preferable to that of the 1900s, you'd have to turn a blind eye to most of the history of the 20th century.

The increase of total money in the system is what led to much of the economic advances the western world experienced. Even the depression in the 20s wasn't enough to tank the economy permanently - or seriously slow it down.

Just sayin' :)

tomos

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #315 on: October 22, 2013, 01:35:31 PM »
It's very much like gold, IMO, and the reason that we moved away from the gold standard (and the reason that I think it was a good thing to move away from it).

Errr... uh, I'm not so sure about that being a good thing. Look at people's purchasing power over the last 200 or 300 years or so. The last 100 years have been a train wreck.

I'm never convinced by that argument - can you seperate the "value" of e.g. the dollar from the standard of living? I know they're two different things but they are dependent on each other to a certain (probably debatable) extent. You can e.g. buy a lot more labour when the labour gets paid a pittance.
Now, look at the average standard of living in 1800 and compare with today. (Of course I'm being narrow-minded and just thinking about the 'western' world there :-[ )
Tom

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #316 on: October 22, 2013, 08:20:05 PM »
I'm not so sure about that.

Hehe! Here we go...~!

If anybody today thinks the economy and standard of living in the western world during the 1800s was preferable to that of the 1900s, you'd have to turn a blind eye to most of the history of the 20th century.

That conflates far too many different issues together.

It's like saying it was impossible for people to enjoy cake in the past because they didn't have gas ovens to bake in.

The point I made above was about the stability of market prices.

Standards of living, the industrial revolution, modern science, etc., were all well on their way up prior to the current incarnation of how our money is being debased.

I think you're giving far too much credit ( :P ) to the banking & finance industry.

If anything, we are doing as well as we are in spite of them, and certainly not because of them.

The increase of total money in the system is what led to much of the economic advances the western world experienced.

So, then you're on board with Ben Bernanke firing up the printing presses for QEternity?

1 word:

Zimbabwe.

Or 3 words:

Weimar Republic hyperinflation.

Take your pick. :)

Currency is a measure of wealth. Wealth is a product of time and effort expended in the past and stored in some form or other. e.g. Cleared land for farming, precious metals, works of art, whatever.

You can't "print" time and effort. You can't print prosperity. If you could, Zimbabwe would be the wealtiest country in the world with everyone there being multi-trillionaires.

Even the depression in the 20s wasn't enough to tank the economy permanently - or seriously slow it down.

You mean the depression in the 30s, right? (Roaring 20s - dirty 30s)

I somehow doubt that. But I think we've been reading different history books when it comes to the origins of the stock market crash of '29 and the subsequent depression. I'll see if I can dig up some references for you later and then I'll post back.

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Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #317 on: October 22, 2013, 08:44:00 PM »
I'm never convinced by that argument - can you seperate the "value" of e.g. the dollar from the standard of living?

So, if it cost $0.05 to buy a loaf of bread 100 years ago (when the standard of living was lower), and today it costs $5.00 (with a higher standard of living), then, when a loaf of bread costs $500.00 then what?

Inflation is theft. It robs you of purchasing power. Allowing governments and central banks to inflate currencies is simply criminal negligence.

Today I save enough to buy a loaf of bread. Tomorrow I can't buy that same loaf of bread because of inflation. That's an insidious form of theft.

But confusing the purchasing power of the dollar with standard of living just doesn't follow.

Here are the basic characteristics of money/currency:

http://www.amosweb.c...oney+characteristics

(1) durability,
(2) divisibility,
(3) transportability, and
(4) noncounterfeitability.

The USD doesn't fit that definition, and that's a loose definition. It fails #4. Similarly, other fiat currencies do not fit that definition. Japan, Canada, the EU, Australia, etc. etc., are all engaging in quantitative easing, which is nothing more than a fancy word for "counterfeiting".

Note that the source is incredibly deluded:

Quote
An economy needs government, ABSOLUTELY NEEDS government, to regulate the total quantity of money in circulation.

Bitcoin is proof positive that the claim there about government being needed is purely false.

Just look at how well bitcoin is doing without government. Can't people see what's right in front of them?
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40hz

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #318 on: October 22, 2013, 09:03:10 PM »
@Ren - your inner Libertarian is showing again. ;D :P (kidding!)

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #319 on: October 22, 2013, 09:45:37 PM »
@Ren - your inner Libertarian Voluntarist/Anarchist is showing again. ;D :P (kidding!)

FTFY. ;)

Libertarians actually think that government is ok. ;)

e.g. A lot of people got angry at the Republicans for shutting down the US govt. I was angry that they didn't finish the job! :P ;D 8)

Cue someone complaining about "who will build the roads" in 5... 4... 3... ;)
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tomos

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #320 on: October 23, 2013, 01:31:19 AM »
So, if it cost $0.05 to buy a loaf of bread 100 years ago (when the standard of living was lower), and today it costs $5.00 (with a higher standard of living), then, when a loaf of bread costs $500.00 then what?

I dont really care what something costs in comparision to x years ago (maybe I should) - I care what it costs in relation to what I can earn/make in an hour/day/week/month/year. That's my point when I ask "can you seperate the "value" of e.g. the dollar from the standard of living?".
Tom

Renegade

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #321 on: October 23, 2013, 03:26:25 AM »
So, if it cost $0.05 to buy a loaf of bread 100 years ago (when the standard of living was lower), and today it costs $5.00 (with a higher standard of living), then, when a loaf of bread costs $500.00 then what?

I dont really care what something costs in comparision to x years ago (maybe I should) - I care what it costs in relation to what I can earn/make in an hour/day/week/month/year. That's my point when I ask "can you seperate the "value" of e.g. the dollar from the standard of living?".

Ah. Gotcha. I know what you mean now.

http://www.infopleas...om/ipa/A0774473.html

Minimum wage workers in 1964 made about 30% more than minimum wage earners now. *IF* you look at fiat, only.

Minimum wage for 1 hour in quarters in 1964 was about 0.82 troy ounces of silver.

http://www.kitcosilver.com/charts.html

Today that's worth more than $18.50. (@ $22.60 per ozt)

Somebody... please tell me that you'd rather have $4.87 worth of purchasing power than $18.50 worth of purchasing power. Do it with a straight face. Anyone? Anybody?

<crickets />

Please keep in mind that the current value of silver has been manipulated to be artificially lower, with the greatest manipulator being JP Morgan, who is facing $13 billion in fines to start with, as well as pending criminal charges. (Goldman Sachs stays more on the gold market manipulation side...) They are manipulating precious metal prices through ETFs (Exchange Traded Funds). These are not backed up by physical metals. Resolution is done in $$$ instead of through physical delivery. The ETF markets are used to manipulate the physical markets. You can see this in the large spike in physical premiums we had a few months ago when GS & JPM along with their central banking buddies assassinated gold & silver. (There are other price manipulations going on, e.g. copper, but what I've got there should be enough. Please do go out and fact check me if you don't believe me.)

So that $18.50 number is extremely conservative.

When did Classical Greece fall? After it had debased its currency.

When did Rome fall? After it had debased its currency.

When will we fall? ;)

Now, for "standards of living", we cannot conflate "available gadgets" with the standard of living. The things to look at are life expectancy, home ownership, available leisure time, number of working parents in a family, etc. Not how many people have a big screen TV and gaming console. But... That gets into a very long discussion and I'm simply too lazy to do the research to post links here.

...

But, no matter how you cut it, debasing a currency is not a good thing. I utterly fail to understand how people can think that it is.
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tomos

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #322 on: October 23, 2013, 06:53:50 AM »
^I'm not arguing about debasing of a currency, and whether that might be a good thing. (1) I dont want to argue it (2) I'm not qualified to do it anyway ;-)

Quote
Minimum wage workers in 1964 made about 30% more than minimum wage earners now. *IF* you look at fiat, only.
-
I was thinking more in term of a comparision with 1800 or even 1900 (referencing your quote that money had lost so much value in the last 2 to 300 years). It's easy to cherry pick a very short period of time when average people did reasonably well, and say that's what the world would be like if [xyz]. But I dont see much logic there, nor much to convince me of anything really. I could just as easily argue that times were good then because banks were much more regulated (and we might both be right - or wrong, or it might just be the case that there's an awful lot more going on at any time, than any simple idea/concept can explain).

Quote
Minimum wage for 1 hour in quarters in 1964 was about 0.82 troy ounces of silver.
[...]
Today that's worth more than $18.50. (@ $22.60 per ozt)
-
Why do I feel like I'm being cheated when you compare minimum wage in 1964 and today in terms of silver :-\
We've touched on this before (my post in basement thread about greenback dollars). SeraphimLabs claims a deflationary model is unstable (second post @ the link above). I dont know about his qualifications, but you didnt respond directly. As I say I'm not qualified to talk about it, but off the top of my head, if money was related to, say, silver, and silver was increasing in value all the time, then wages would probably have to be reduced proportionately, otherwise companies would go bust. Not sure that would go down too well...

I know that you know a lot about the flaws in fiat money Ren. But I get the impression that you dont know a whole lot more about economics than I do, yet you seem so very sure about your ideas. That sets off alarm bells for me. No offence intended - it's the ideas I'm on about ;)
Tom

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #323 on: October 23, 2013, 11:32:22 AM »
@Tomos - Dammit! You're making work harder here! ;) ;D (I understand many of these things far above my ability to explain/teach on the topic.)

http://www.minneapol...er/calc/hist1800.cfm

Cumulative inflation from 1800~1899: -0.547%
Cumulative inflation from 1900~1999: +315.70%
Cumulative inflation from 2000~2013: +34.30%

For comparison - first 13 years of each century:

Cumulative inflation from 1800~1813: +15.80% <--- War of 1812 is 14.7% here.
Cumulative inflation from 1900~1913: +17.60%
Cumulative inflation from 2000~2013: +34.30%

In the 1900s, the first 13 years represent 5.6% of the inflation for the century.

Keep in mind that I'm using Federal Reserve Bank numbers there. I think this kind of sort of maybe puts my claim there out of the "skewed" category. I'm taking numbers out of the enemy's camp.

Now, to go back further... sigh... too lazy to look that up now. I've seen the numbers before, but don't remember where at the moment. Anyways, moving on and skipping the 1700s...

I was thinking more in term of a comparision with 1800 or even 1900 (referencing your quote that money had lost so much value in the last 2 to 300 years). It's easy to cherry pick a very short period of time when average people did reasonably well, and say that's what the world would be like if [xyz].

I didn't cherry pick 1964. I picked it because 1965+ coins aren't silver; they're copper/nickel.


But I dont see much logic there, nor much to convince me of anything really. I could just as easily argue that times were good then because banks were much more regulated (and we might both be right - or wrong, or it might just be the case that there's an awful lot more going on at any time, than any simple idea/concept can explain).

Dunno what to say there.


Why do I feel like I'm being cheated when you compare minimum wage in 1964 and today in terms of silver :-\

Not sure. Perhaps because I've pulled a fast one and compared money to currency. They're not the same. As you can see above, the US currency isn't worth much now. In 1964 it was worth something and was tied to money (silver coins).

We've touched on this before (my post in basement thread about greenback dollars). SeraphimLabs claims a deflationary model is unstable (second post @ the link above). I dont know about his qualifications, but you didnt respond directly.

I did respond directly to most of that. I didn't go over (primarily) deflationary currency directly though. That would have taken more time than I can reasonable spare.

It can be summed up like this:

https://en.wikipedia...i/Gresham's_law

People WILL spend. They MUST spend. They MUST eat. They MUST use resources to live, etc. etc.

Deflationary fears are mostly paranoia. What's wrong with people not using more than they need? Is that a bad thing? etc. etc.

To be honest, fears about deflation seem simply silly to me, and not really worth addressing any more than Hollow Earth theories or reptilian aliens - they're fun, and perhaps interesting, but not particularly useful.

As I say I'm not qualified to talk about it, but off the top of my head, if money was related to, say, silver, and silver was increasing in value all the time, then wages would probably have to be reduced proportionately, otherwise companies would go bust. Not sure that would go down too well...

WHOA THERE~!~!~!~!

Ok, this part:

if money was related to, say, silver...

Good so far...

...and silver was increasing in value all the time...

We just went off the rails.

You sound like you're buying into my trick above where I compared fiat currency to money (silver) in the inflationary context. Silver *IS* money. Currency, like the USD or EUR, is *NOT* money - it is just "currency". Perhaps I should have not slid that in there without making it explicitly clear what the actual comparisons are.

Silver doesn't increase in price like that. What happens is that the value of the currency falls.

The value for a loaf of bread doesn't really change. What changes is the value of the currency.

Same thing for eggs, milk, gasoline/petrol, whatever -- their values do not change. The value of the currency used to buy them changes.

This:

"Oh my! Milk is $5.50 and only last month it was $4.50. Milk is getting so expensive!"

Is just WRONG.

This is more accurate:

"Oh my! Milk is $5.50 and only last month it was $4.50. The central banks are raping us with inflation that devalues the crappy currency we're using!"

Don't belive me? Hehehe! Check the first link above. ;) From the Fed even! 8)

...then wages would probably have to be reduced proportionately, otherwise companies would go bust.

From what I've illustrated above, that doesn't follow.

If gold/silver were used, wages would be stable. You can look at the historical prices of silver and see very, very little fluctuation until the central banks get their clutches on the currency and debase the hell out of it. At the same time, you can also see that inflation was about zero.

e.g. In any given year a loaf of bread, stick of butter, and litre of milk will cost the same amount of silver/gold. (This has become distorted due to EFT manipulations in the last few decades, but holds for true prior to that.)

Does that make more sense now?


I know that you know a lot about the flaws in fiat money Ren. But I get the impression that you dont know a whole lot more about economics than I do, yet you seem so very sure about your ideas. That sets off alarm bells for me. No offence intended - it's the ideas I'm on about ;)

No offence taken. I'm not really good at explaining some of these things, and I hate going back to look up references that I've forgotten.

I'm pretty certain about a few things, but my reasons are generally either for reasons of math or because I don't like looking at naked Emperors, e.g. taking perfectly good paper and ink and making them both worthless. :)
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tomos

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Re: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?
« Reply #324 on: October 23, 2013, 01:53:34 PM »
^ thanks for taking the time to make that response Ren :up:

I do understand better now where you're coming from. I also understand a bit better your focus on inflation (which btw is still way down my list of problems - personal or theoretical :-\ unless it is a symptom of something unhelpful, which of course it might well be).
Tom