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Author Topic: Superboyac is throwing in the towel: I'm going to transition to Linux  (Read 27776 times)
40hz
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« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2012, 11:46:05 AM »

Compare to HP where driver packages are massive and are (at best) flaky on most models I have come across - requiring regular (and very time consuming removal and re-install .... never try their update system unless you like blue screens)

+1 x10^3 !!!!

The newest HP printer models with the wifi print capabilities have gotten marginally better with Windows7. Or have if you just accept the installation defaults and don't try to get fancy. But the multi-function units are still a nightmare IMO . Especially if your initial installation borks and is left in an incomplete or damaged state. Ripping out a botched HP multi-function install is a total nightmare.



Alerts like the one above make me sometimes wish I had become an actuary instead of doing what I do for a living.

(Hint: ALWAYS create a Windows restore point before installing any HP printer. Probably not a bad idea to do one prior to any other printer installation while you're at it.)

Canon's installer, on the other hand, works flawlessly almost every time. And that includes their multi-function units - which are the only multi-functions I'll (grudgingly) recommend to my clients.

When it comes to photo printing, for me it's either Canon or Epson - purely for their color quality and superb resolution. Completely blows the doors off HP in that department. And in practice, I prefer to print high quality color and photos using a Canon for most of the reasons Carol has mentioned previously.

Almost every graphic and photo pro I know thinks the same.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 12:09:20 PM by 40hz » Logged

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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2012, 12:16:35 PM »

HP's new disk-less SmartInstall is actually rather nice, as they've cut down considerably on the BS (BFF) Fluff-ware. I setup a few of the new LaserJet M1212nf printers last week and the install was quite delightfully painless. The new ePrint and (WiFi) Direct print features are also really handy/cool too.

On the Digital sending side (Send to folder/Email/etc.) HP is definitely easier to work with than most (Xerox, Lexmark, Toshiba, et al.). I don't spend a lot of time with the consumer grade stuff, but the HP business class printers are quite  economical to run and trouble free.
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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2012, 12:21:23 PM »

Especially if your initial installation borks and is left in an incomplete or damaged state. Ripping out a botched HP multi-function install is a total nightmare.

The funny part of your error from above, is that about 70% of the time I've encountered it ... Forcibly terminating the unwind process left the printer functioning perfectly. Seriously, if the installer has made it past the point where the printer object has been created ... Just torch the unwind, and it'll probably run just fine.
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40hz
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« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2012, 12:32:31 PM »

Just torch the unwind, and it'll probably run just fine.

+1. I've found that to be the case about half the time. (Heard it from a guy who works for HP so I guess they're aware of it too.)

What I hate is when the install aborts, the printer throws an error when you attempt to access properties, and subsequent invocations of the installer refuse to do anything (i.e. install, repair or remove). Then it's KB lookups and manual fix-it time. Nightmare.

And yes. I just saw my GF's new HP multi (consumer grade) install without a hitch last weekend. Much to my surprise. (Even if I am still waiting for the other shoe to drop.) So maybe they've finally gotten their act together on the consumer end? I always liked the big enterprise HPs. And the pro office stuff like the 4000 series, et al. I just never thought HP did good 'cheap' technology.

Maybe I'll have to check them out again and re-evaluate.  Depending. Grin

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Innuendo
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« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2012, 12:48:06 PM »

That is because you are a cheapskate - the cheapo models use two cartridges and then they screw the money out of you for ink.

And here I was trying to use tact & subtlety with my replies. Leave it to Carol to come in with a sledgehammer to knock the point home. cheesy

Quote
I always buy higher spec Canon models which use 4, 5 or 6 cartridges - which have no electronics.
For me it isn't just that they are cheaper to run (still not cheap though) - they are quiet and reliable and I find the drivers a less obtrusive and just work.

You'll spend more up-front for the printer, but if you own it for any real length of time, it's cheaper in the long run due to the money you save on ink.

Quote
Lexmark are ... well Lexmark. Junk printers, crappy, flaky drivers and ridiculously expensive consumables (and shame on Dell for rebadging them and selling them as Dell machines).

Double-shame on Dell for rebadging them *and* changing the cartridges enough so you can't just drop a Lexmark cartridge in if you are in a pinch!

Lexmark, BTW, uses more black ink per page than any other manufacturer's inkjet printers.
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2012, 12:57:33 PM »

Lexmark, BTW, uses more black ink per page than any other manufacturer's inkjet printers.

Lexmark use a lot of ink just turning the thing on. Seriously I have had customers complaining they have never printed colour documents and yet they have to replace the colour cartridge just to print! Its all to do with the 'ahem' cleaning method used at switch on (also known as wasting as much ink as possible).

Epson have another fun little trick with their waste ink reservoir that fills up alarmingly quickly meaning they want you to send the printer back for a service (at more than the cost of the printer) - but we have had the built in obsolescence discussion elsewhere. Luckily there is an easy to find reset tool on the web that you can simple tell Epson where to go and carry on printing!
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tomos
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« Reply #81 on: March 04, 2012, 01:07:53 PM »

I always buy higher spec Canon models which use 4, 5 or 6 cartridges - which have no electronics.

I'll avoid the 6 cartridges in future - that costs a lot and I dont know if they last any longer than just four cartridges...
BTW, I thought they (canon) all had a chip on the cartridge now?
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Tom
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« Reply #82 on: March 04, 2012, 02:08:57 PM »

@40hz: so edward - are you happy you've got someone new using linux this week? :-))
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Ath
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« Reply #83 on: March 04, 2012, 02:12:23 PM »

someone new using linux this week
That is to be seen, might be next week or even next year Grin
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40hz
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« Reply #84 on: March 04, 2012, 02:14:54 PM »

@Gwen7 - more so than usual with this one. He'll run it into the ground before he lets it get the better of him if push come to shove. Can't claim any credit however. He already decided to give it a try on his own. I'm just putting my two cents in where I feel I have something to suggest.

 Thmbsup
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Gwen7
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« Reply #85 on: March 04, 2012, 02:16:46 PM »

someone new using linux this week
That is to be seen, might be next week or even next year Grin

oh that's good! :-))
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40hz
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« Reply #86 on: March 04, 2012, 02:20:25 PM »

someone new using linux this week
That is to be seen, might be next week or even next year Grin

oh that's good! :-))


Matters not. I'm not the evangelist I used to be about this. And I never was much of one to begin with.

But figure it this way - whatever we ultimately do end up using ten years from now will bear little resemblance to what we're currently using. So my only real concern is that whatever we're using opens doors and possibilities for us, promotes innovation, and offers choice.

Beyond that I don't care what it's called or who makes it - although I do have my druthers. (I'm only human.) tongue
-----

@Gwen7 - nice to see you back around. Not enough women participants IMO.
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Gwen7
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« Reply #87 on: March 04, 2012, 02:29:50 PM »

^ who is to say we aren't around? i'm a regular lurker here.  maybe we women folk have all sorts of deep discussions about what goes on here you're not privy to...ha! bet you never considered that did you? (i'm only teasing!)(maybe.)

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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #88 on: March 04, 2012, 03:04:37 PM »

BTW, I thought they (canon) all had a chip on the cartridge now?

Probably true (my machine is a couple of years old). Chipping probably has an advantage - not just making Canon more money by forcing people to buy original ink. I have seen a lot of printheads killed by third party cheap ink (and have managed to get some working again but have been shocked at the amount of crap I managed to wash out of them).

What I mean by electronics is the printhead being included in every cartridge like many manufacturers do. I suppose it has the advantage of a new printhead each time but it is inevitably more expensive.
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xtabber
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« Reply #89 on: March 04, 2012, 04:20:20 PM »

Canon was the manufacutrer for the engine in HP Laser printers for many years (possibly still are). As a trade-off for the business, they agreed to sell only printers that did not support HP's PCL and Adobe's PostScript directly.  That was a long time ago and that agreement may no longer hold, but Canon printers still seem to go their own way.

I do like Canon best for inkjet color printing, but I do very little of that, so when I do, it is cost effective for me to have color images printed elsewhere.

For laser printing, I have been a Brother fan for many years now. Even the cheapest Brother printers are invariably reliable, even for duplex printing (which I do a lot of). They also generally cost less to buy and operate than most others for low and medium volume printing.

I used to like Canon for MFC devices, but now prefer Brother there too. My current Brother DCP-8080DN is by far the best MFC I've ever worked with. Brother's networking software is superb for both printing and scanning (across a Windows network, anyway, I haven't tried it on Linux) and it provides both a legal-sized flatbed (essential for me) and a fast auto document feeder. all for less than $350, which is what a standalone scanner with similar capabilities would cost me.
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superboyac
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« Reply #90 on: March 18, 2012, 03:16:24 PM »

Update:
Well, I've been messing around with Mint on my laptop for a few weeks now.  It's good, but honestly, Windows is not going to be replaced anytime soon.  And I'll tell you why...installing third party software is not easy.  First, i don't even know how to install something (I'm not asking for help, i can google when I'm ready).  Secondly, I'm pretty sure even if I find third party stuff, I have to check if it works with y distro.  So...there are a lot of obstacles and extra steps involved just to play with additional tools.  I'm sure once I get the hang of it, it's not that bad, but it ain't no download an installer and click next...next...done.

My computing habits involve downloading and installing third party tools ALL the time...every day, multiple times a day sometimes.  Anything that makes that process more difficult is going to be annoying to me.  Because I get impatient with all that stuff...my true desire is to play around with the tool, not figure out how to get the tool set up.

With Windows, I can get anything and get it up and running almost brainlessly.  The only time i get annoyed is when I see a cool tool that is only available for Macs or Linux, and NOT available in Windows.  Now, if I go to Linux, that annoyance gets magnified because there are going to be all sorts of things i find that probably won't work on the distro I'm using.

So that's the state of affairs now.  If i don't need third party tools, Linux Mint is working out great.  But that limits my use of it to my scrap computers lying around, or computers I want to give people that are not necessarily computer people (i.e. they won't be doing too much with it other than web browsing).

Now I understand the raging debate of whether or not it's good to consolidate the distros into some kind of unified thing.  I see the pros and cons of each one.  True freedom is complex issue.  It's almost like the more freedom you desire, the more you have to be willing to work for it.  The less freedom you desire, the less you have to work for it.  ironic, eh?  Isn't the whole point of freedom to not have to work?  Or is it do work, but on things you want to work for?  Interesting...linux...
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mouser
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« Reply #91 on: March 18, 2012, 03:23:11 PM »

Quote
It's good, but honestly, Windows is not going to be replaced anytime soon.  And I'll tell you why

ok who won the pool? i know skwire and i both had bets in  Grin
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rgdot
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« Reply #92 on: March 18, 2012, 03:37:48 PM »

not figure out how to get the tool set up.

If in 2012 this is still a barrier then Linux is forever doomed <==== this may be a obvious, blatant generalization but nevertheless holds true in enough cases to matter
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superboyac
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« Reply #93 on: March 18, 2012, 03:55:16 PM »

Quote
It's good, but honestly, Windows is not going to be replaced anytime soon.  And I'll tell you why

ok who won the pool? i know skwire and i both had bets in  Grin
Grin sheesh.
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superboyac
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« Reply #94 on: March 18, 2012, 04:54:25 PM »

me...and mouser and skwire:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsnILrd2A5s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsnILrd2A5s</a>
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Armando
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« Reply #95 on: March 18, 2012, 05:57:20 PM »

Thanks for that classic.
I won my bet too. The only thing is I'm not sure if it's a good thing...  smiley
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« Reply #96 on: March 19, 2012, 02:28:00 PM »

I had a bad experience with Ubuntu a couple of times. A ways back I ran into a (later determined) known bug in Dapper Drake that did ugly things, then somewhere about 10-10 Ubuntu quit loading on my test machine.

I did sorta okay with one of the Suses. I've been dying to try out Mint with xfce, but I need a good 3 day weekend to really try out a distro.

But lately I just lost interest because it's the App side. Forgetting the big hitter programs, I have almost/over 100 mini apps! So the trouble for me is trying to find replacements for everything.
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superboyac
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« Reply #97 on: March 19, 2012, 02:50:31 PM »

I had a bad experience with Ubuntu a couple of times. A ways back I ran into a (later determined) known bug in Dapper Drake that did ugly things, then somewhere about 10-10 Ubuntu quit loading on my test machine.

I did sorta okay with one of the Suses. I've been dying to try out Mint with xfce, but I need a good 3 day weekend to really try out a distro.

But lately I just lost interest because it's the App side. Forgetting the big hitter programs, I have almost/over 100 mini apps! So the trouble for me is trying to find replacements for everything.
Yeah, me too.  i rely on dozens of little software every day on Windows.  Actually, that would be an interesting list for me to make regarding this little project of mine.  I should list all my regularly used Windows softwares and find equivalents for mint.
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« Reply #98 on: March 19, 2012, 03:25:58 PM »

I think it is the right time you need to install Wine and test some of the windows programs. I have managed to run old FARR inside Wine without any issues. I am sure most of the portable apps will run just fine.

Following apps work for me under wine:

Word 2003/07
Treesheets
Sigil
and many others ...

So you can download Wine 1.2 for Mint and then install the windows programs and see if it works.
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TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #99 on: March 19, 2012, 03:40:00 PM »

I had a bad experience with Ubuntu a couple of times. A ways back I ran into a (later determined) known bug in Dapper Drake that did ugly things, then somewhere about 10-10 Ubuntu quit loading on my test machine.

I did sorta okay with one of the Suses. I've been dying to try out Mint with xfce, but I need a good 3 day weekend to really try out a distro.

But lately I just lost interest because it's the App side. Forgetting the big hitter programs, I have almost/over 100 mini apps! So the trouble for me is trying to find replacements for everything.
Yeah, me too.  i rely on dozens of little software every day on Windows.  Actually, that would be an interesting list for me to make regarding this little project of mine.  I should list all my regularly used Windows softwares and find equivalents for mint.

I forgot about Wine! But I don't understand that well how to get data "out of the wine side" and "into the linux side." (Does Cut and Paste work?)

But if you just think, at the absurdly fast Hour per App, that's 100 hours!  ohmy

To that other set of posts, I DO want Linux to be able to do everything with a GUI, because for me it is about the Philosophy of Linux being Not a Big Corp. I am not interested in the command line right now. So we were saying about multi distros, gimme a GUI one! I like Buttons!
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