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Last post Author Topic: BitTorrent - why bother?  (Read 11899 times)

f0dder

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2006, 07:49:58 AM »
Quote from: f0dder
Their tracker for WOW updates is usually swamped after an update is release, and their client SUCKS so much that I used to manually extract the .torrent file from it, and used with uTorrent.
And ffter that, even the Tracker is no more needed, thanks to DHT! :) What more one could ask? :)

Bye!

That blizzard actually cared a bit about their customers and not just their customers' money? ;) - I think torrent (or other p2p) techonology is good for things like update distribution, but the company should still deliver decent bandwidth and servers themselves.
- carpe noctem

moerl

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2006, 11:48:02 AM »
Thanks for that - I have uninstalled Azureus and tried utorrent. That seems to zip along quite nicely and it is SO much less cluttered & minimalistic. Great.
It doesn't use Java like Azureus, so it's smaller. But it also mostly just copies the new ideas that show up in Azureus. BT newbies might prefer utorrent, I prefer to have all those options and plugins in/for Azureus.

Agreed. When I first tried uTorrent, I was not impressed. That was some months ago I believe. But I tried it yesterday, and I must say it has turned into an extremely lovable little application. It's got a great set of features, is very consistent, extremely user-friendly and works! It's very easy to set up as well. It's got the most important features from Azureus but is nowhere NEAR as full-featured as the latter. If you're serious about BT, Azureus is more or less the only way to go. I'm a big Azureus fan myself because it's so advanced and powerful, and you can tell the makers put TONS of thinking and effort into the application's making. I have simply come to completely TRUST Azureus in handling my downloads. It seems extremely intelligent in its handling of BT files.. just look at the Azureus Wiki.. you'll find tons of highly technical talk regarding the workings of BT, which for me adds confidence in the makers of Azureus. It just lets you feel like "they know what they're doing, and they know it well". Azureus is a lot heavier than uTorrent as an application, but it's as much more advanced as it is heavier as well :)

I'll stick to uTorrent now and see how well it handles multiple torrents and at what speeds. I may return to Azureus in the end. I like them both, I must say.

f0dder

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2006, 02:55:36 AM »
I don't really understand why some people are so hyped up about Azureus...

uTorrent downloads fine, supports uPNP, can move both downloads and .torrent files to new folders when done, and even supports ipfilter.dat (in case you think that's going to help you in any way, hah). What more do you need?

Quote
I'll stick to uTorrent now and see how well it handles multiple torrents and at what speeds. I may return to Azureus in the end. I like them both, I must say.
I've had uTorrent grab files with around 1meg/s from my workplace 10mbit line, and it worked pretty well even though I was on a bit underpowered laptop with a slow hdd.
- carpe noctem

AbteriX

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2006, 05:18:04 AM »
Thanks for the question  :) , nice to read thread.  :Thmbsup:

moerl

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2006, 07:32:30 PM »
I got uTorrent after reading this thread and after a fresh Windows reinstall and have not felt the need to get back to Azureus yet. I do miss Azureus just because it worked damn well for me and I had it set up to perfection, with plugins, network tweaks and all.. but everything I've thrown at uTorrent so far has downloaded just fine, with totally acceptable speeds, so for now I'll stick with uTorrent. Not to mention uTorrent starts in less than two seconds and I can easily continue to use my computer with it running while Azureus would take up to 20+ seconds to start and would take my connection hostage pretty much, if I remember correctly.

brotherS

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2006, 08:20:25 PM »
I got uTorrent after reading this thread and after a fresh Windows reinstall and have not felt the need to get back to Azureus yet. I do miss Azureus just because it worked damn well for me and I had it set up to perfection, with plugins, network tweaks and all.. but everything I've thrown at uTorrent so far has downloaded just fine, with totally acceptable speeds, so for now I'll stick with uTorrent. Not to mention uTorrent starts in less than two seconds and I can easily continue to use my computer with it running while Azureus would take up to 20+ seconds to start and would take my connection hostage pretty much, if I remember correctly.
Then you didn't set it up correctly: http://azureus.aelitis.com/wiki/

moerl

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2006, 08:28:03 PM »
Trust me, I did set it up correctly. I just never used bandwidth throttling/limiting or whatever you want to call it. You could say it's obvious it would hog my connection then, but hey.. I like to dedicate 100% of my bandwidth to downloading when I download something. I don't use that feature with uTorrent either though and web access seems faster. If I remember correctly, I could actually use the web just fine with Azureus running and downloading, but things were noticeably slower. Anyway.. doesn't matter. I'll stick with uTorrent for now. Thanks.

f0dder

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2006, 04:22:34 AM »
Well, if the difference is that Azureus needs a shitload of tweaking to work decently and µTorrent works out of the box... *tongue-in-cheek*
- carpe noctem

Carol Haynes

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2006, 05:28:01 AM »
That's my feeling with Azureus too ... µTorrent was a lot easier to setup and is more selfexplanatory to use.

I get the feeling that Azureus can do anything you want (including ironing and making the supper) but it loses for me in the overkill of obscurely termed options. (I know they are probably technically correct terms but if you don't know what an option means I don't want to wade through pages of explanations and google searches to find a real English version!)

f0dder

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2006, 05:39:24 AM »
What I really like about µTorrent is that the developer, ludde, is a nice guy who's very open to suggestions. You can usually find him on IRC/EFnet in #winprog. Torrents (and the .torrent file) can be moved from your "in-progress folder" to "download done" automatically, very suitable for automatic extraction tools or remote checking (if you can't do remote desktop but have ftp access, it's still easy to see if a download is done).

I don't think it has "auto-launch .torrent files from <this folder>" yet, but ludde would probably not mind adding it (it's a feature I use a lot in rTorrent on my linux box - fire and forget like). Oh yeah, and there's a web-based control interface coming.

All this while *still* keeping it LEAN_AND_MEAN :)
- carpe noctem

Deozaan

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2006, 02:35:41 PM »
I used uTorrent before Azureus and uTorrent would break my connection to webpages (hogging all the bandwidth, I suppose). That was unnacceptable to me (I had used BitLord previous with no throttle and did not have that problem) so I looked for somethign else and found Azureus, which is practically identical to uTorrent, at least in appearance. Occassionally I get good download rates of about 30Kbps, and rarely I get higher rates, but most of the time it is between 5-20KBps. I've set my router and firewall, DHT is enabled (whatever that is) and my NAT is okay. And still if I don't have a global throttle of about 5k upload speed my internet browsing is basically dead.

I never throttle my download speed as it has never affecting my browsing.

I would much prefer to download via http, so I can get at least 80KBps+, but files are much easier to find using a BitTorrent search site and for those truly big files, it's a major plus that it can resume right where you left off with no extra software (that doesn't always work) necessary.

When I made the switch to Azureus from uTorrent I found that I liked Azureus better. Still my download rates are usually much slower than anyone using 1.5mbps broadband should get.

I also heard about a tit-for-tat thing. Where if you don't upload as much as you download you get slower download rates. I only skimmed over the messages after reading so many of them, but did anybody else mention that? I try to keep my share ratio at about 1, but with having to throttle my upload to 5k all the time it doesn't work out so well.


moerl

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2006, 04:14:25 PM »
What I really like about µTorrent is that the developer, ludde, is a nice guy who's very open to suggestions. You can usually find him on IRC/EFnet in #winprog. Torrents (and the .torrent file) can be moved from your "in-progress folder" to "download done" automatically, very suitable for automatic extraction tools or remote checking (if you can't do remote desktop but have ftp access, it's still easy to see if a download is done).

I don't think it has "auto-launch .torrent files from <this folder>" yet, but ludde would probably not mind adding it (it's a feature I use a lot in rTorrent on my linux box - fire and forget like). Oh yeah, and there's a web-based control interface coming.

All this while *still* keeping it LEAN_AND_MEAN :)

It does :). I agree. I really like uTorrent. But I also like Azureus. I never had problems with Azureus and always loved it. uTorrent has only been cool since v1.5. Before that I can't say I liked it, and I tried it out. I didn't exactly actively ditch Azureus for uTorrent either. I just happened to reinstall Windows recently and when the question of torrent clients came up, I tried uTorrent, liked it, and stuck to it so far. Azureus is an excellent torrent client and the main reason it is so much more complex and big than uTorrent is because it has more features and is FAR more customizable. So for those who are into heavy customization, Azureus is your answer. For everyone else, uTorrent does extremely well :)

moerl

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2006, 04:20:56 PM »
Another great thing about Azureus is that it comes with a load of cool plugins. uTorrent has no plugins at all AFAIK. Azureus plugins are found here: http://azureus.sourc....net/plugin_list.php

I used the Autospeed plugin and it worked great. I have no idea if it ever affected my download speeds, but it just worked and my download speeds were mostly good. One extremely important thing you have to realize about download speeds is that they depend on the quality of the torrent you are getting. If you get a "healthy" torrent and your network setup is correct, you are more or less guaranteed to get good speeds. If you get "sick" torrents, you can be on a 100Mbit connection and you'll still get shitty download speeds. The combo of correct network setup (possibly also network tweaking) + healthy torrents is the single easiest way to make sure you get good download speeds. Of course other factors are in the equation as well, but if you stick to this simplified equation, you should never have problems really. For me, it works that way.

For Azureus, this is a must read as well: http://azureus.aelit.../index.php/Main_Page

Make sure to read the following two Wiki entries: "Why you need Good settings for high download speed" and "How to further increase your download speed: find out all about the Average Swarm Speed and Availability and Good Torrents in general"
There's a ton of other very useful information on that Wiki, but the above two are MUST reads as they don't just tell you some basic and some advanced stuff on torrents in general but also because they tell you just what to do to maximize download speed.

f0dder

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2006, 04:25:34 PM »
Deozaan, the whole torrent protocol and client software is structured to "penalize" users who don't upload much. But at the same time, you will *always* have to throttle your upload rate a bit if you have ADSL, since maxing out your upload will *kill* your download. Finding the sweet spot between up and down can be a bit difficult.

And yeah, HTTP will usually give you better speeds than torrents, unless you use some of those nasty illegal semi-private torrent sites, or some of the better linux/bsd torrents. That's just life in an egoistic world where people want to download but not upload.

Btw, for the up/downstream issue, it's worth looking into cFosSpeed (http://fileforum.bet...osSpeed/1103571841/1). Rather than just "choking" applications to throttle your upstream (and thus maintain downstream), it can also do some packet reordering ("deep stuff") that will make everything flow smoother. The result is download speeds somewhat below your theoretical maximum, but still with a good upload speed at the same time.
- carpe noctem
« Last Edit: April 06, 2006, 02:23:11 AM by brotherS »

Deozaan

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2006, 05:20:42 PM »
Btw, for the up/downstream issue, it's worth looking into cFosSpeed. Rather than just "choking" applications to throttle your upstream (and thus maintain downstream), it can also do some packet reordering ("deep stuff") that will make everything flow smoother. The result is download speeds somewhat below your theoretical maximum, but still with a good upload speed at the same time.

Is cFosSpeed built into Azureus or is it one of the plugins? If it's a plugin, where can I find it?

I went to the Azureus wiki and changed my settings according to their Good Settings wiki page. It suggested I put my upload throttle at about 19k, which immediately destroyed my browsing. Downloading torrents doesn't seem to be affected by my upload speed, but browsing the internet does. So I've got it reduced to 10k and it seems to be working well. I'm not downloading anything right now, so I can't tell if my download rates have improved, but at least my upload is twice as much as before. That should help keep my share ratio higher.


f0dder

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2006, 08:22:45 PM »
cFosSpeed is an external app that will work on your machine in general, it isn't a plugin for Azureus. I do have mixed experiences with the app, though :/. Once when I tried it, it really did help greatly. After a windows re-install, it was as if it had no effect.

I suggest you give the trial version a spin: http://www.cfos.de
- carpe noctem

brotherS

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Re: BitTorrent - why bother?
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2006, 02:26:00 AM »
Is cFosSpeed built into Azureus or is it one of the plugins? If it's a plugin, where can I find it?
I added the URL in f0dder's post above.

Quote
I went to the Azureus wiki and changed my settings according to their Good Settings wiki page. It suggested I put my upload throttle at about 19k, which immediately destroyed my browsing. Downloading torrents doesn't seem to be affected by my upload speed, but browsing the internet does. So I've got it reduced to 10k and it seems to be working well. I'm not downloading anything right now, so I can't tell if my download rates have improved, but at least my upload is twice as much as before. That should help keep my share ratio higher.
Then your ISP probably isn't *really* giving you the speed you are paying for or you are using cable. The AutoSpeed plugin could be interesting for you then. Use the built-in IRC plugin to ask for more help if needed.

Azureus =  :up: