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Author Topic: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero  (Read 7938 times)

Renegade

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Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« on: November 05, 2011, 09:07:42 AM »
An interesting article (title from that):

http://www.infoworld...the-real-hero-177864

Quote
Steve Jobs was a great CEO, but Bill Gates has moved beyond technology and is trying to save the world. Why isn't he getting more recognition?

...

In a note to the members of the Harvard community, Gates wrote, "I hope you will reflect on what you've done with your talent and energy. I hope you will judge yourselves not on your professional accomplishments alone, but also on how well you work to address the world's deepest inequities, on how well you treat people a world away who have nothing in common with you but their humanity."

As Wessel put it, "Those are not the words of a leader of business. Those are the words of a leader of people."

I always wondered why Bill never got more attention for all the good he does.
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Paul Keith

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2011, 10:29:31 AM »
He does get attention but the thing is, nobody really considers either of those two as heroes. (Not in the sense of Mother Theresa at least.)

Stoic Joker

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2011, 10:46:59 AM »
I always wondered why Bill never got more attention for all the good he does.

Probably because he knows that it's counterproductive.  There is nothing helpful about being on the talkshow circut chattering about how much you're helping ... Because you're really not helping anyone but (agrandizing) yourself at that point. When you really want a job done, you focus on doing that job. For the sole purpose of getting that job done. Not wasting time talking about how much of it you specifically did. Ya know...

fenixproductions

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2011, 02:45:48 PM »
Offtopic but...

Not in the sense of Mother Theresa at least.
Such words always bother me after reading a lot of stuff mentioned here:
http://en.wikipedia....her_Teresa#Criticism

wraith808

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2011, 02:53:00 PM »
^ I was thinking it, but I wasn't going to go there.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2011, 03:38:57 PM »
Oh Jesus Christ, Seriously?!? Do we really need to slap a darkside on Mother Teresa? I mean damn... Who ever really lives up to their own hype when put under a spotlight??

Sure I (actually) pride myself on being a cynical atheistic, prick about "Organized Religion" ... I hate it with a passion ... But Mother Teresa was always one that (at least) seemed to be really trying to live up her own retoric. I kinda liked her ... Still do damn the facts/details.

wraith808

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2011, 04:04:53 PM »
I mean damn... Who ever really lives up to their own hype when put under a spotlight??

That was my point.  Mother Theresa was put up as an example to which Jobs and Gates don't live up to, but she was human also.  There is no comparing people and their contributions.  Each person gives their own contributions, and the comparisons are useless, IMO, and the little details don't detract in any way from the good- they are two separate things.

Eóin

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2011, 04:12:16 PM »
Also didn't Mother Theresa's stance on artificial contraception have a big role to play on the spread of AIDs in Africa? In terms of ultimately having a good/bad impact on the world she is way way into the bad side of the scales.

fenixproductions

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2011, 04:33:16 PM »
I partially agree with wraith808 and understand that each human has bad times but... I don't like people put as high-moral examples when they has a lot of issues behind their backs. MT was not god, neither do SJ nor BG. They did some good and some bad deeds, all changed world somehow but what matters for me is total outcome. (Un)fortunately Bill made it on top amongst these three (for me).

tomos

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2011, 04:37:52 PM »
Going back to the thread title: "Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero" - the "hero" idea is BS imo - I think any attempt to make Gates a hero is just reacting to the glorification of Jobs.

Me, I believe any solution to the world's problems is in change/transformation of [absolutely lots of things - ways we think/act, structure of the financial world, etc.]. Anyone who makes a fortune, and then gives (even if it is generously) is not necessarily helping much. (I'm really not trying to knock Gates here.)
Tom

zridling

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2011, 06:08:47 PM »
Jobs spent his entire life telling everyone he was the smartest guy in the world. Gates was pretty much a world class prick during his heyday, as are most spoiled rich people. At least as Renegade says, he's seen the bigger picture. Mother Teresa is like most god-believers to me -- their thinking is based on a psychosis that believes suffering and evil are good for you, and not something to be fought against. I like to think I'm better than that.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2011, 06:33:00 PM »
Mother Teresa is like most god-believers to me -- their thinking is based on a psychosis that believes suffering and evil are good for you, and not something to be fought against. I like to think I'm better than that.

+1 - I'm with ya there. But she did at least sincerely try to do the right/good things ... Even if some didn't necessarily end so well.

@wraith - Good point, agreed.

Carol Haynes

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2011, 07:28:46 PM »
Evidence that Gates was definitely brighter than Jobs when it comes to setting up a business:

Gates => licensed DOS and Windows to IBM => allowed other licensing => huge market place and profits

Jobs => locked in hardware and software => tiny market place => Nearly ended in liquidation

OK you could argue that the marketing ideas of the last few years turned that round somewhat (or at least a bit) but in the establishement of the companies they are known for Gates definitely made the smarter move.

wraith808

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2011, 08:23:27 PM »
I don't like people put as high-moral examples when they has a lot of issues behind their backs.

I don't like people put as examples, high-moral or otherwise. 

Quote
Live with a man 40 years. Share his house, his meals. Speak on every subject. Then tie him up, and hold him over the volcano's edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man.

I just like that quote :)  But seriously, how much do we know the people we are familiar with, let alone those we don't know personally?  For the longest time Tiger Woods was a role-model because he was seriously gifted at putting forth the right facade.  Now he is a pariah.  But the truth of the man is somewhere in the middle.  Our perceptions put him on a pedestal, and our perceptions brought him down.  When in the end, all he ever was was a man that knew how to hit a ball with a stick.

Mother Teresa is like most god-believers to me -- their thinking is based on a psychosis that believes suffering and evil are good for you, and not something to be fought against.

There we are with generalizations.  Most people that believe in God that I know of don't believe that suffering and evil are good for you, so there you go.  That's another side of the same problem IMO.  Instead of taking people for who they are or what they have done, we put labels on them as a whole or based on hearsay good or bad.  I just don't like it.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 08:28:42 PM by wraith808 »

Renegade

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2011, 08:25:21 PM »
An observation - Mother Theresa comes up in this post about Bill Gates, but we don't have that reference in other posts about tech-gods. Interesting... ;)

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mahesh2k

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2011, 11:16:45 PM »
I think it's better if we take charity work with some pinch of salt. Because no matter how you look at charity activities these days, it comes with some price.

Coca-Cola and Pepsi are into charity as well (atleast here in india) but at the same time they are mining tons of water, destroying environment with plastic and yes, there are cases of excessive pesticides in coke and pepsi.

Many big corps and celebs do the charity work (not out of goodness of their heart atleast not all the time) for keeping fame and the money. Anjelina jolie is an exception to that for taking kids at home, but it's rare to see such folks. Charity is so hyped that if you're a celeb and have no charity work then you're considered as next lindsay lohan or britney.

Here in india there are plenty of missionaries working under the title of charity, aim behind that is religious conversion. Any non-religious person can see this coming as there is a lot of deceptive history of missionary charity. If you're a catholic and religious, you'll find it in no wrong taste but looking at the political and the educational abuse side of it, religious charity always has deceptive purpose. As religion is the only thing in this world that can go inside politics and education (includes science) and social structure without much resistance. Take case of this hindu temple, the daily turnover of this temple is in 7-8 figures, it'll be foolish to call this country 3rd world if you spot 5-6 temples or church like that in each state. This temple also has access to politicians and educational system such that it's not hard for them to get religious input inside education or social or political structure. In kerala state (india) there is charity work going for families to give birth to more than 2 kids and get 10k INR (250 US $) per child for financial support(one-time). In reality 10k hardly cover expenses of any family for few months. That aside, this increases the number of Catholics in that region and it becomes easy for them to manipulate state laws, education and business respectively. Mother Teresa ? she's just another person who is contributing to this. Some choose to critic religious charity, some choose to go with the positive side, but i choose to look for the bigger view of religious charity. I can only imagine what these religious charities can do to countries which are damn poor to defend or feed their countrymen. I'm sure they take advantage during natural disasters (haiti, tsunami) for their conversion stuff in the name of good. You see, religious charity always comes with some cost, they're no different than business charity.

Now coming back to topic with bill gates, i have respect for him because he's considering charity work for research and awareness in some of the diseases that includes cancer, AIDS and few others. But what makes me go back to skeptical mode with him is that, if he's done with the business stuff in life, why he's bothering with "robin hood tax theory" in G20 Summit?

Media is so cheap these days that they make charity work as a cool lifestyle. Charity isn't something that is pressworthy or fameworthy, it should come from the inside, if you're into humanism. On that point, be it bill gates or buffet, it's waste of time to rate them over SJ. Atleast SJ didn't took part in charity work for deceptive reasons.



Paul Keith

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2011, 07:12:11 AM »
Well I went off because I felt my comment was obvious for what it was and to quote tomos: "the hero idea is BS" and that's why I brought up Mother Theresa as regardless of what you think of the human, her brand says different. Period.  (Though I don't have a strong belief as tomos' statement has which is why I never stated it this way)

As far as Mother Theresa the human though, I consider her a non-factor. A name you insert as a hook for those who have not find the desire to do research on her. Her reputation is so obvious to anyone who does some minor reading that even an un-scientific show like Penn and Teller's Bullshit can show her as a propaganda piece for the Vatican because her BS stinks worse than your average Christian. It's not just her religious background, the way she approached charities reek of con-men and the way she left her legacy reek of con-men. Whether it's Wikipedia or somewhere else, read a little bit about her - find a lot wrong about her besides her religious background.

...still heroes are images. They are on par with legends. When one compares heroes with non-heroes, one speaks of the hero as a positive image of what most people view them. Not for who they really are. Especially not for who they are as there's a risk of such things as flame wars or circular arguments trying to over-humanify the flaws of the hero as if that makes it ok that they leave a legacy of lie. On top of this, we always get into such topics like charities or relgiion. Mother Theresa was a horrible person beyond her religion, beyond her charity, beyond the common crook. I'm not just saying this because of her works as a human but again because of her legacy as a product for those who want to push an agenda. But that's just it, Mother Theresa is a hero. She's a saint. She causes people to be angry defenders of her whenever she's criticized even of people who barely knew her and the few who don't, again they justify the flaws of the world as if that somehow should apply to a saint and it's now ok to pardon the hero. No way I would have extended my comment to that which is why I never implied Mother Theresa's flaws at all. It's just not worth it. It hijacks a thread. It slips people into angry if not defensive delusions or both. It leaves nothing but a husk of a thread. Bringing up the brand should never be seen as bringing up the human. There's a time and place for that and though I would hope there are more necessary time and places to bring up such truths for those who haven't encountered it, fact of the matter is that there isn't. It wasn't a flaw in my comment to omit what any article says Mother Theresa really wasn't, it was by design. A design necessary in the world left by those who  create heroes.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 07:27:35 AM by Paul Keith »

zridling

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2011, 07:41:46 AM »
Gates maybe, but not Microsoft. ThinkProgress had this sponsorship of an extremist conservative group in the US:
http://thinkprogress...ea-party-conference/

afp_gold_spons_microsoft.jpg

They got to do better than this credibility killer, but like so many corporations, they get in bed with both sides of the political aisle.

wraith808

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2011, 08:00:29 AM »
Well I went off because I felt my comment was obvious for what it was and to quote tomos: "the hero idea is BS" and that's why I brought up Mother Theresa as regardless of what you think of the human, her brand says different. Period. 

He does get attention but the thing is, nobody really considers either of those two as heroes. (Not in the sense of Mother Theresa at least.)

?!?!?

There's nothing there to point you to anything other than what the words say.  Which is something that a lot of people believe.

?!?!?

Renegade

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2011, 08:03:53 AM »
Gates maybe, but not Microsoft. ThinkProgress had this sponsorship of an extremist conservative group in the US:
http://thinkprogress...ea-party-conference/
 (see attachment in previous post)
They got to do better than this credibility killer, but like so many corporations, they get in bed with both sides of the political aisle.

Hey, MS is gold, while the US Chamber of Commerce is Bronze!  :o

Wait... Does that mean that MS is better or worse?  :huh:

I'm confused~!?!  :huh:
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Paul Keith

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2011, 08:10:34 AM »
Well I went off because I felt my comment was obvious for what it was and to quote tomos: "the hero idea is BS" and that's why I brought up Mother Theresa as regardless of what you think of the human, her brand says different. Period. 

He does get attention but the thing is, nobody really considers either of those two as heroes. (Not in the sense of Mother Theresa at least.)

?!?!?

There's nothing there to point you to anything other than what the words say.  Which is something that a lot of people believe.

?!?!?

Copy paste:

No way I would have extended my comment to that which is why I never implied Mother Theresa's flaws at all. It's just not worth it. It hijacks a thread. It slips people into angry if not defensive delusions or both. It leaves nothing but a husk of a thread. Bringing up the brand should never be seen as bringing up the human. There's a time and place for that and though I would hope there are more necessary time and places to bring up such truths for those who haven't encountered it, fact of the matter is that there isn't. It wasn't a flaw in my comment to omit what any article says Mother Theresa really wasn't, it was by design. A design necessary in the world left by those who  create heroes.

wraith808

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2011, 08:21:29 AM »
Copy paste:

No way I would have extended my comment to that which is why I never implied Mother Theresa's flaws at all. It's just not worth it. It hijacks a thread. It slips people into angry if not defensive delusions or both. It leaves nothing but a husk of a thread. Bringing up the brand should never be seen as bringing up the human. There's a time and place for that and though I would hope there are more necessary time and places to bring up such truths for those who haven't encountered it, fact of the matter is that there isn't. It wasn't a flaw in my comment to omit what any article says Mother Theresa really wasn't, it was by design. A design necessary in the world left by those who  create heroes.

^ Still confused, because that's after the fact, and your statement on that same post makes it seem like it was obvious in the complete post that I quoted.

Renegade

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2011, 08:49:47 AM »
...her BS stinks worse than your average Christian.

Oh Paul, you sooo have to see this:

Blasphemy

308308_2520822830033_1537173494_32693744_1715875246_n.jpg




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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

wraith808

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Re: Bill Gates, not Steve Jobs, is the real hero
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2011, 09:37:30 AM »
That's bad.  Funny... but baaaaad... :)