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Author Topic: Flowchart and Diagramming Review  (Read 17961 times)
sword
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« on: October 26, 2005, 04:24:43 PM »

I'd like to try to add a bit, if possible, to something in a Flowchart/Diagram section with more details in the diagram section. I'm willing to try a bit of a summary or overview but I don't feel anywhere near qualified to do a complete review. I know almost nothing about most of the high priced and recently released apps. Let me know where to contribute if possible. sword
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sword
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2005, 02:25:20 PM »

I’m working on an overview. I have a list of some applications in Flowcharting/Diagramming and will examine details at the listed URLs. Additions welcome.

3D Grapher ABC Flowcharter AddressManager Aditi allCLEAR Antechinus Draw Magic Brother’s Keeper Cartia Cause and Effect Diagram Chartist Chartsmith ConceptBase ConceptDraw ConceptDraw V Professional CORAL Corel Flow CPM Dia Diagram Designer Documentor Download Process Developer Enterprise Edition EDGE Diagrammer edraw flowchart software 1.5 Envision FFW FLEX++ Flow Charting Flow Charting 5 FlowBiz FTM Graham Process Charting Software 6.0 GRAS grok IFS Business Modeler iGrafx FlowCharter Jandrete - Marketing Plan Pro Knowledge Foundation Layout Flow Legacy MacFlow Macromedia Authorware Macromedia Director Macromedia Flash MaintSmart MGX Flowcharter Mindmanager Personal MS ACCESS MS Excel MS Frontpage MS Project MS Publisher MyInfo 2.5 OmniGraffle OnBase OrgBuilder OrgPublisher ProcedureNet Process Developer Enterprise Edition Process Developer Enterprise Edition 2.1 QuickBase RDBRFFlow RFFlow 5 ROL Sigmalink Sitepoint SmartDraw SmartDraw 6.2 Professional Plus SmartSketch SodiPodi SourceCode2Flowchart Sprite Drawing Flowchart Software TeamFlow TeeChart Pro Think 2000 ThoughtFlow Visio Visio 2003 Pro WebFlowChart WinFlo WizFlow WordPerfect Workflow Engine WorkflowGen YACL Ygnius mindmapping ZigZag
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2005, 02:50:36 PM »

SmartDraw is now into version 7.3
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mouser
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2005, 03:12:28 PM »

sword - that would be great to start off a review on diagrammers!

and wow!!! that's some list!  thumbs up
personally i'm very interested in this category and would be thrilled to see a comprehensive review of this category.


let me put up a template for the part1 section of reviews on the website you can download.
basically its just like an outline with a table for putting info about programs.

at least 50-60% of the work of these reviews is collecting a list of the various applications and making this part1 overview of the category and the screenshots and program info, so it would be a HUGE great start to start to make progress on that.

let me know any other way i can help.

once the part1 "catalog" of programs is written, the rest of us can help narrow down the field and identify the top tier of programs that are worthy of more detailed investigation..

i'm really looking forward to this review..
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brotherS
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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2005, 06:07:29 AM »

I’m working on an overview. I have a list of some applications in Flowcharting/Diagramming and will examine details at the listed URLs. Additions welcome.
http://www.diagramstudio...._text_to_your_diagram.htm looks great - and the http://fileforum.betanews...DiagramStudio/996394192/1 rating is very good too!

Check also the http://www.diagramstudio.com/ds/qtour.htm - wow! Maybe you could use those animated gifs for your review. I really wish I had this a few years ago... would have saved me tons of time...

I like the scaled paper and how it looks:



Btw, is there a nice and free make-animated-gif-out-of several png screenshots tool?

 Cool
« Last Edit: October 29, 2005, 07:07:57 AM by brotherS » Logged

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mouser
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2005, 10:04:04 AM »

i've used a couple of these tools - most are a bit overly complicated for my use.
i bought a license for edge diagrammer (which is already in your list) many years ago - it seemed to me much faster to start and use and was much more intuitive, made it easier for me to get ideas onto paper.  it may not be able to compete with some of the really complicated featuresets, but i've found it consistently more intuitive to use for limited stuff.
(www.pacestar.com)
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brotherS
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2005, 10:47:31 AM »

@mouser:

Maybe you can ask the http://www.diagramstudio.com/ds/qtour.htm and www.pacestar.com folks if they want to throw in some free copies for next month's action?

Say we will take about it all the time! We will! Thmbsup
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sword
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2005, 04:27:32 PM »

Thanks mouser. I really like outlines, particularly WordPerfect v.12. Any type would be great. I have some URLs of the sites. Some were duds.


Revision 3 [MS/Microsoft]:

3D Grapher OpenGL (Win) commercial www.romanlab.com/3dg/
AddressManager www.frank-buss.de/wxwindows/AddressManager.htm
Aditi www.aditi.com/ commercial
allCLEAR http://www.mpsys.co.za/allclear/Features.htm http://www.allclearonline.com/
ARTISAN http://www.unn.ac.uk/iidr...pers/vineart/vineart.html
BibRelEx http://www.dlib.org/dlib/.../landgraf/11landgraf.html
Blobworld http://elib.cs.berkeley.edu/photos/blobworld/
Brother’s Keeper genealogy
Chartist (Win) http://www.novagraph.com/ http://www.novagraph.com/erd_vml.html
Code Visual to Flowchart http://www.fatesoft.com/
ConceptDraw (Win, Mac) commercial
ConceptDraw V Professional www.conceptdraw.com/en/products/ mindmap/ap-mind-map-software.php
Corel Flow software.mbtmag.com/researchit/corel-flow-software.asp
DESCARTES [formerly IRIS] http://allanon.gmd.de/and/java/iris/
Dia open source GPL see OpenOffice
DIG http://www.digitalimaging.org/
Diagram Designer (Win) freeware http://www.eventhelix.com/EventStudio/
Documentor commercial www.winpigs.com/files/sql-documentor.html
Download Process Developer Enterprise Edition www.soft14.com/cgi-bin/sw-link.pl?act=dl9733
EDGE Diagrammer (Win) commercial http://edgediagrammer.say-it-now.com/
edraw flowchart software 1.5 http://www.versiontracker...om/dyn/moreinfo/win/43333
Envision http://www.soft411.com/software/flowchart_2.html
Flow Charting (Win) commercial http://www.tversoft.com/c...r/flowchart-software.html
Flow Charting 5 http://www.patton-patton.com/
FlowBiz http://www.flowbiz.com.au/
FTM genealogy see Family Tree Maker
Geomantics http://www.woolleysoft.co.uk/index.html
Graham Process Charting Software 6.0 http://www.worksimp.com/wspage02.htm http://www.processchart.com/
GRAS portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=204199
grok www.grokinc.com/
HERON http://HERON.Informatik.Uni-Augsburg.DE/
Inote http://www.iath.virginia.edu/inote
IRDG [ICONCLASS] http://www.iconclass.nl/
Jazz http://www.cs.umd.edu/hcil/jazz/ Java
Jandrete - Marketing Plan Pro (Win) http://www.jandrete.com/t3679497.html  and “/t3654189.html
Layout Flow http://www.finedownloads....layout-flow-flowchart.htm
Legacy genealogy see Legacy Family Tree
LizardTech http://www.lizardtech.com/index.pl
Luna Imaging http://www.luna-imaging.com/insight.html
Macromedia Authorware
Macromedia Director
Macromedia Flash
MediaLoom http://www.mindspring.com...olva/medialoom/index.html
MGX Flowcharter see ABC Flowcharter www.micrografx.com
Mindmanager Personal ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~jaytate/software.htm
MindMapper (Win, Mac) www.mindmapperusa.com/
MS ACCESS
MS Excel
MS Frontpage
MS Project
MS Publisher
MyInfo 2.5 www.tranglos.com/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic. php?t=40&sid=a631274086bcaf7c886ff64033bac6bc
Net Flowchart Software http://www.soft411.com/so...are/.net-flowchart_5.html
Octavo http://www.octavo.com Adobe Acrobat
OmniGraffle (Mac) commercial www.aaasoftwaresearch.com/Software/B00009YUGN
OnBase www.codestone.net/solutions/ document-management-software.htm
OpenDX http://www.opendx.org/ open source
Organization Flowchart Software http://www.downloadspace....rganization-flowchart.htm
OrgBuilder www.aquire.com/products/orgbuilder/
OrgPublisher www.aquire.com/products/orgbuilder/
PlumbDesign http://www.thinkmap.com/
ProcedureNet www.procedurenet.net/ProductInfo.html
Process Developer Enterprise Edition http://www.gold-software....riseEdition-file6699.html
Process Developer Enterprise Edition 2.1 http://www.freetrialsoft....eEdition-review-1761.html
QBIC http://wwwqbic.almaden.ibm.com/~qbic/
QuickBase www.business.com/directory/ accounting/software/intuit,_inc/quickbase/
RFFlow (Win) commercial
RFFlow 5 (Win) http://www.rff.com/
Sigmalink www.xml.com/pub/p/102
Sitepoint www.sitepoint.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=147 www.sitepoint.com.au/editize
SmartDraw (Win) commercial http://www.smartdraw.com/specials/flowchart.asp
SmartDraw 6.2 Professional Plus
SmartDraw Histogram Creator for Microsoft Excel http://www.ozgrid.com/Services/ExcelChartTools.htm
SmartSketch (Win) commercial www.blien.de/ralf/cad/sw/sw_smartsketch.htm
SodiPodi (Mac) http://www.applelinks.com...pm/more.php?id=2209_0_1_0
SourceCode2Flowchart http://www.cutedownloads....urcecode-to-flowchart.htm
Sprite Drawing Flowchart Software http://www.finedownloads....ite-drawing-flowchart.htm
TeamFlow http://www.teamflow.com/ http://www.dqsnet.com/flowchart.html
TeeChart Pro (Win, Linux) www.steema.com/products/teechart/whatsnew.html www.componentsource.com/
Thinkmap [see PlumbDesign] http://www.thinkmap.com/
ThoughtFlow www.waria.com/databases/gwvendors.htm
Virage http://www.virage.com/products/index.html
Visio (Win) commercial see MS
Visio 2003 Pro see MS
ViSta http://forrest.psych.unc.edu/research/index.html open source
Visual Thesarus http://www.plumbdesign.com/thesaurus/
VxInsight http://www.cs.sandia.gov/...ts/VxInsight/VxPaper.html
WebFlowChart www.soft411.com/software/webflowchart.html
WebSEEK http://www.ctr.columbia.edu/webseek/paper/
WordPerfect see Corel
Workflow Engine www.workflowgen.com/
WorkflowGen www.workflowgen.com/
Ygnius mindmapping http://www.mindgenius.com/
ZigZag 3D mapping using XML http://www.xanadu.net/zigzag/


Cheers, sword
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mouser
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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2005, 06:37:11 PM »

wow!

i've been configuring a new wiki on this site because i thought we would see if a wiki might be a better way to prep for a review.. as soon as i get it finished (tonight) we can see if its easier from your standpoint to use that or an html outline template.
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2005, 07:29:52 AM »

Just to remind again, SmartDraw is now at version 7.3. There have been some big interface changes since version 6, so any review would need to be based on that version.

If you haven't got access to version 7.3 there is a free trial version on their website: here
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brotherS
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2005, 09:31:09 AM »

Just to remind again, SmartDraw is now at version 7.3. There have been some big interface changes since version 6, so any review would need to be based on that version.

If you haven't got access to version 7.3 there is a free trial version on their website: here
Looks great, but for the ~300 bucks it should smiley Did you really use that one for a longer period?
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brotherS
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2005, 09:47:18 AM »

A wiki might just be ideal for a couple other reasons.

Consider a category like audio editors. That is NOT something that 1 person could possible do a good job of for many reasons. I've used a lot of them out there and know most of them pretty well, but the scope is just massive. It's like trying to do anti-virus software or databases. They're just big topics that require a lot of research and time - LOTS of time.

With a wiki, the wiki-view could evolve over time with multiple contributors.
Exactly, the wiki will help DC to grow and vice-versa, I'm sure!

Quote
A wiki would allow multiple contributors.

Good idea Mouser!
cheesy
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2005, 10:28:25 AM »

Quote
Looks great, but for the ~300 bucks it should  Did you really use that one for a longer period?

I bought it a few years ago at academic pricing, and got a cheap upgrade too. I wouldn't pay full price for it though ...

It is an excellent program.
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brotherS
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2005, 10:56:37 AM »

Quote
Looks great, but for the ~300 bucks it should  Did you really use that one for a longer period?

I bought it a few years ago at academic pricing, and got a cheap upgrade too. I wouldn't pay full price for it though ...

It is an excellent program.
The review might answer this question later, but is it the best you know for this kind of stuff?
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2005, 11:50:54 AM »

Having not looked at that lot I can't really say - but it is extremely comprehensive and very flexible.

It is also regularly updated (with new features as well as maintenance) and their support is really excellent: personal emails and quick response time.
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2005, 10:27:02 PM »




Overview [first draft] of categories in ‘best application’, flowchart/diagramming:
What are the relative frequencies of files found? Google advanced search: ALL of: diagram; Phrase of: x; At least one of: software OR application; Located in: the title of the file. “x” searched for each term, process, relation, etc. and the number found (N) listed.

1.   Diagram
1.1   Process N=325
1.2   Relation N=48
1.3   Time N=19
1.4   Semantic

1.1.1   Procedure N=11
1.1.2   Cause and effect N=11
1.1.3   Drill down N= 1
1.1.3.1. HTML N= 37
1.1.3.2 Slide show N= 6

1.2.1 Organization N= 26
1.2.2 database N= 230
1.2.2.1 table N= 9
1.2.2.2 relation(al) N= 48
1.2.3 descendant
1.2.3.1 genealogy N= 10

1.3.1 Flowchart N= 274
1.3.2 Timeline N= 5

1.4.1   Venn or Euler N= 125
1.4.2    Logic N= 36
1.4.3    Networks N= 300
1.4.4    Knowledge N= 42

While searching I found a web site [probably well-known to most of you] that lists applications and shows screen shots of many of them, along with a link to the site of the developers:
http://www.soft411.com/software/venn-diagram.html

I am weak on knowledge about flowchart applications and a search on this site lists 37 in this category:
http://www.soft411.com/software/flowchart.html


Cheers, sword
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mouser
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2005, 10:41:39 PM »

sword i've been hard at work trying out content management systems like wiki, drupal, mambo, and i think this would be a perfect test case for building a hierarchical collaborative review.. let me just spend another day setting up another couple of tools, and we can see which one we think is best, and then maybe you would be willing to start off outlining this review using this new system? i think it would be very illuminating for us to see how well it suits such a task.
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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2005, 11:05:22 PM »

mouser, sounds great but don't rush. I have plenty of searching to do on this and I'm looking forward to it.
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mouser
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« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2005, 11:09:52 PM »

i have to tell you that this would be an incredibly useful review.
there are a lot of diagramming applications, and it's hard to know which one is best for which tasks, and they have a steep enough learning curve that it can be a really hard decision.  a nice comprehensive review with some advice for users would be *extremely* useful i think.  i myself would love to read this review.
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« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2005, 05:51:46 PM »

I put the first draft in the sandbox. I'll watch for corrections and additions. There should be lots smiley I'm having a slow time navigating here, probably because of my lack of experience on similar sites. I have zero hours experience on chat and usenet sites and under one hour experience on, or with, wiki. Any suggestions about how to navigate, like using a sitemap, would be appreciated.
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mouser
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« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2005, 06:04:39 PM »

I like the idea of a site map, with an item to view it at the top of every page (next to "|Links|").  If anyone has some sample sitemaps that they think look good and should be used as a model let me know.  I have already set up a kind of jumping off page here:
http://www.donationcoder.com/About/start.html

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mouser
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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2005, 06:11:27 PM »

The review is looking great so far = we should move it out of sandbox and into collaborative review section i think (i'm not sure how to do that, maybe the wiki experts can shed some light).

I noticed you have a included flowcharting programming components.  While i'd love to see a review of those, and can contribute a little having used some of them, they are surely part of a completely separate review with very little overlap in term of use.  I think you should use every means possible to reduce the # of programs that need to be evaluated for this review or it's going to become unfinishable smiley

Looks like it's going to be a great review though.  I think this might be one of those categories that may end up making separate suggestions for high-end vs. low-end tools, don't you think?

We also need to figure out a good way to handle images for the wiki revies, i.e. where to put them and how to link to them; i can enable uploading of images if that's the best solution.
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2005, 07:52:32 PM »

Not sure what you mean by the 'collaborative review section' - if it is in the forum then I'd guess cut and paste is the only way.

If it is going to be in the wiki, can you open the editor on the page and cut and paste the editor content to a new page in the wiki ?


Aside ...

FWIW I still think the "Wki" and "Track Bugs" buttons should be on the site menu bar rather than the forum menu bar. They should be accessible from every page on the site not just the forum. In particular the "Track Bugs" link should be available from the download area.
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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2005, 08:08:12 PM »

Quote
In particular the "Track Bugs" link should be available from the download area.

very true, i will add this right away.

as for wiki and bugtracking button on every page - i'm still trying to figure out how much info can be tolerated on each page, and i think we are approaching the limit smiley
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Carol Haynes
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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2005, 06:14:17 AM »

Quote
as for wiki and bugtracking button on every page - i'm still trying to figure out how much info can be tolerated on each page, and i think we are approaching the limit smiley

I know what you mean Wink

However, the Menu Bar at the top of each page isn't too cluttered so two extra buttons there wouldn't really hurt (IMHO). In fact I think it would be clearer as the forums are probably the most complicated pages anyway in terms of number of options to click about on !!
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