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Author Topic: Memory Address Space  (Read 4741 times)

Cuffy

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Memory Address Space
« on: April 01, 2008, 08:08:35 PM »
Is anyone aware of any software that graphically displays memory address space and where the physical memory is being used?
It would sure be easier to understand why you can't stuff 4GB physical memory into the 32 bit system address space if it was displayed in a graph and it would bloody well be a blast if you could watch the graph and make the memory dance by using or releasing some of it!
If there isn't anything like that around I'd be ashamed of myself if I were a programmer? Luckily I'm not!
It , of course, would be easier to explain it that way too. That's really why I'm looking.
 8)

f0dder

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2008, 09:19:23 PM »
You can stuff 4 gigabytes of memory into the 32bit system address space - but you can't :P. The problem is memory-mapped devices and (other) reserved memory areas. (But you knew that).

As for graphing current use, that becomes pretty complex once an operating system has booted. I don't think I'd want to even attempt it on windows... under DOS, you can query the "e280 map", which will show reserved regions etc. But that's probably before PCI/AGP devices have been mapped...
- carpe noctem

Cuffy

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2008, 11:34:10 PM »
Well, that was a bust! I thought a little shame might work but apparently not.
I was thinking about something to use to explain to newbies why they can't get to use all 4GB of the new ram they just bought. Patches and reg hacks are going to increase with price of ram dropping, especially DDR2, and big rebates.
Of course they won't work either but they'll keep trying, and keep crying, and I'll keep trying to keep from crying!
Damn, there are times when I even make myself sick.
Thanks, Fodder
 ;D

f0dder

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2008, 08:25:30 AM »
The solution is obviously moving to a 64-bit OS :)

Btw, even 32-bit x86 OSes have been able to use >4GB ram since "like, forever" (iirc PAE was introduced with pentium pro), but Microsoft decided to not support that on non-server OSes for market segmentation compatibility purposes :-\ :-\ :-\, even though XP activates PAE mode to take advantage of hardware no-execute protection.
- carpe noctem

Cuffy

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2008, 12:17:40 PM »
I've been running a 64bit system since MS released the trial. When the trial expired I bought a copy!
I have no complaints but it's hard trying to explain the problem to 32bit OS users. At one time I found a diagram of the 32bit memory address space that showed that the top of the bucket was already full so you couldn't get 4GB of memory into the remaining space in the bucket. I think the graph was on Wiki but I can't seem to find it again. There's enough information about memory stored on Wiki now to choke a goat. I'll look again but right now I'm engaged in a brutal battle with a game of Freecell.
Thanks
 :D

f0dder

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2008, 04:58:11 PM »
Heh, that diagram sounds very over-simplified - there's a lot more to it than that. And apart from the address space issue, there's also the "how much physical memory will the OS use", etc.
- carpe noctem

Cuffy

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2008, 07:24:55 PM »
I think my description of it may be a little oversimplified. And I'm sure there is a great deal more to it!
But remember......... when the eight year old asks where she came from simply say Cleveland, along with the rest of us, and she'll go away. The long dissertation about the facts of life really isn't necessary.
The only reason she's asking is because the ten year old next door said she came from Chicago?
 8)

Stoic Joker

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2008, 06:21:27 AM »
May not be exactly what you're looking for, but this might be close.

http://www.tmurgent.com/Tool_ATM.aspx

f0dder

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2008, 06:01:20 PM »
Looks like an interesting tool, Joker! - doesn't do the address-space part, but the cache stats look nice :Thmbsup:
- carpe noctem

cmpm

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2008, 09:21:03 PM »
Here's one that just came up at snapfiles.

The info-

http://www.ks-soft.n.../procmeter/index.htm

The free download-

http://www.snapfiles...m/get/procmeter.html

Looks pretty close to what you are looking for.

f0dder

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2008, 07:16:38 AM »
That one doesn't cut it either, it's just normal memory usage statistics...

What Cuffy wants, if I'm not mistaken, is a map of the physical memory address space and/or a map of process address space... not just showing how much memory is used/free, but showing "this chunk is free, this chunk is allocated, this chunk is memory-mapped to a hardware device" etc.
- carpe noctem

Cuffy

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2008, 11:43:31 AM »
Hey guys, thanks for the input. These tools impressed me but I'm wondering if the young lady that sprung for 4GB mem but only got credit for 3GB in properties will even pause long enough to digest what they are looking at??
I'll present the apps to the masses and see what kind of response they get? It may be that the question can be answered as easliy as the one "hey dad, where did I come from?" posed by the eight year old. Cleveland, you came from Cleveland, now go play! ;)
And Fodder, you're right! That block diagram or map I saw is the KISS answer and it's still available at Wiki, I'm sure.
I'll look again and in the meantime I'll fend off the wolves by feeding them the apps that Stoic Joker and cmpm turned up.
Thanks again guys!
 :)

f0dder

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2008, 04:55:26 PM »
Btw., prior to service pack 1, XP would let you access 4 gigabytes of physical memory - after that, it was reduced to 4 gigabytes of address space. Microsoft claims it's because of compatibility, but I think marketing (the server versions...) had a finger in the play as well.

There isn't really any problem with even more than 4 gigs of memory on 32bit OSes, and XP supports PAE, you still only get 2 gigabytes (or 3, with a boot.ini switch and specially flagged applications) per-application, though.
- carpe noctem

Cuffy

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Re: Memory Address Space
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2008, 12:03:06 PM »
Fodder,
I'm here to tell you we both have to learn to use the KISS answers, which in this case, "you came from Cleveland" would have worked as well as the info above that I posted in reply to the question "where did my 4GB of ram go"?
As near as I can tell there has been nary a nibble on the valuable info we gathered and posted.
I've come to the conclusion that facts are boring! People want answers with some excitement and "from Cleveland" is about as exciting as it gets. If you have ever been to Cleveland you know that being "from Cleveland", farrrrr from Cleveland, really makes your day!
Thanks again everybody.......... I'll be in touch!