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Author Topic: Is is possible to flip the display in real time?  (Read 6568 times)
Hirudin
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« on: April 06, 2007, 04:13:33 AM »

Hello all...

I ran into a person that needs a program that can flip the display in real time. It can't just be rotated, it must mirror the display, in real time too.

Long story short, sometimes they need to use the monitor normally, sometimes they need to use it through a mirror.

I see that the nVidia drivers will let you rotate the display, but it wont flip it. Also I doubt NVRotate works wit' other video card brands...


Anyway, anyone know of a program that will do this? Also, does anyone think this is within the scope of a coding snack?
Thanks!
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nite_monkey
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2007, 02:09:44 PM »

flip screen you have to register on the site to download the free program, I would guess registration is free, I havent used the program, but it seems like it might work, I dunno.
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Hirudin
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2007, 02:53:40 PM »

It looks like that program is for Linux... sorry for not specifying before, they need it for a Windows machine.
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nite_monkey
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2007, 08:51:26 PM »

I figured you wanted windows, I just did a quick search,I was at school at the time, I will now go do a better search

ok, I havn't found anything, someone else might be able to find something
« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 08:59:11 PM by nite_monkey » Logged

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gjehle
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2007, 09:01:11 PM »

i think i remember some driver software that came with my graphics card (back in the days when i used windows) that had a switch to flip the screen.

general answer to general question: yes you can flip your screen in real time
if you want to do it in pure software it might not work tho

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jgpaiva
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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2007, 03:56:00 AM »

IIRC, the omega drivers for ATI can flip the screen, both horizontally and vertically. I'm not completelly sure, though, as i'm not using those right now.
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f0dder
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2007, 06:54:47 AM »

Hm, nvidia really ought to be able to flip... "inverted landscape (180 degree rotation)". Seems to work just fine on my GF7600, and it worked fine on my GF6600 as well. Same with my old radeon9600.

Just beware, when doing rotation on nVidia hardware, operations on the rotated monitor feel a lot slower than when not rotated. Not like hardware acceleration if fully turned off, but definitely laggy. On ATi, operations still feel snappy.
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2007, 09:37:10 AM »

Hm, nvidia really ought to be able to flip... "inverted landscape (180 degree rotation)".
...
I'm not sure if you're saying that rotating 180ΒΊ is the same as flipping, it's not. If you flip the image text will no longer be "right side up" no matter how you turn your head.
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f0dder
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2007, 09:57:08 AM »

Ah, my bad... I can't think of a place where actual flipping would be useful, so I thought you meant rotate. For some reason I overlooked the "sometimes through a mirror" part embarassed

The hardware is certainly capable of doing it, but I haven't seen any driver support for it, sorry.
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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2007, 07:27:39 AM »

Thanks for the help y'all... I figured if such a product existed someone here would know.

Looks like this other person is SOL for the most part.
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insert_nick
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2012, 03:30:18 AM »

Sorry for reopening this old topic, but, well - it's 2012 now: is there any software to horizontally flip display in real time, on Windows?
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Ath
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2012, 04:50:16 AM »

Current nVidia drivers usually offer this as a feature (per connected monitor), but I don't know about other drivers/ways/tools.
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insert_nick
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2012, 05:13:33 AM »

No nVidia here, sorry.
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insert_nick
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2012, 05:14:39 AM »

[...] (per connected monitor) [...]

Do you mean, it needs a second monitor for the feature to work?
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4wd
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2012, 05:28:27 AM »

AMD also offer the option, as does Intel integrated gfx, (well it does on my old netbook).

AMD CCC tray icon right-click menu


Do you mean, it needs a second monitor for the feature to work?

No, he means that you can flip each monitor connected to the card individually - it's not all or nothing.

As per screenshot, each item marked AMD Radeon HD6800 Series is one output connected to a possible monitor, each has it's own setting irrespective of the others.

EDIT: Although, after having tried it, (and the attendant reversed mousing), it's actually 180deg rotation not flipping.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 05:42:26 AM by 4wd » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2012, 05:48:08 AM »

EDIT: Although, after having tried it, (and the attendant reversed mousing), it's actually 180deg rotation not flipping.

Yes, rotation is quite usual. Flipping (for use with mirror) is not.
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4wd
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2012, 05:55:22 AM »

Can you tell us what it's for?

eg. If it's to display text mirror-imaged you might have more luck looking for autocue or teleprompter software.  Google

Here's something to try: Image Mirror
Quote
This application displays a mirror image of the pc screen in real-time. It's useful to draw symmetric images on pc screen.
But this software has no capability to draw pictures. You must use an anothor software to draw pictures besides this software. (Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, Microsoft Paint, etc...)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 06:08:29 AM by 4wd » Logged

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insert_nick
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2012, 06:09:30 AM »

No, that wouldn't work.
It's for painting with my graphic tablet under a glass-like surface positioned with a 45 degrees inclination next to a 90 degrees rotated monitor.
The virtual image of the lcd screen lays on the graphic tablet, but the real display should be flipped horizontally in order to see it correctly in the virtual image, and to match the movements of the pen on the tablet.

EDIT: there was no link to Image Mirror while I was writing. I'll look at it.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 06:15:27 AM by insert_nick » Logged
insert_nick
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2012, 06:19:38 AM »

Here's something to try: Image Mirror

Uhm, not exactly what I need, but maybe I could try it with a two monitors extended desktop setup...
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4wd
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« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2012, 06:48:47 AM »

Another one to try: Mirrorimage
You need dual monitors for this one.
Quote
MirrorImage is a cool program that will view any window in a x flipped mirror view, for use in AutoCue systems or any display that requires a mirror image. The best use is to just type in the windows title of the window you wish to use in the text input box, then hit start. A new window will appear with the contents flipped. You can resize the window in real time or maximize it, but you must always have the source window on top.
The best way to use this is to place the source window on screen #1, (if you have dual display) and place the new mirrored window on display #2, which would be your TVOUT display as a secondary display , but not a clone of the desktop.
To swap between two source windows, just hit the LEFT mouse button in the output mirror window.

Note, these programs might not have been written with Vista/7's WDDM in mind probably more for the old GDI way of doing things, ie. XP and prior.

Then again, you do get source code with this one and maybe one of our DC super-coders can convince it to work on Vista/7 if it doesn't Wink
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 06:55:49 AM by 4wd » Logged

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insert_nick
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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2012, 07:36:53 AM »

Ok, tests done (Windows XP) - here's the report.
Thank you very much, 4wd: you're an amazing software discoverer!

Mirrorimage seems slow, or anyway not fast enough on my PC for painting usage.

Image Mirror is great for this usage, in extended desktop setup with two monitors: I put the Image Mirror in the second monitor, and the painting app in the first one, choose the right refresh rate, and I get a fast enough mirrored view of what I'm painting.

Still, I'm interested in other findings, both for avoiding the necessity of a second monitor, and to obtain faster responsiveness, i.e. maybe something tailored to painting usage could monitor and update *fast* only a small area (around where the pointer is detected), and slow the rest of the flipped region. In fact, for 90% of the time, painting is about moving the pointer and leaving a trail near there Wink
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insert_nick
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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2012, 07:59:04 AM »

Contacted the author of Image Mirror:
Quote
Hi, I've tried Image Mirror in search of something that could help for a different usage. It's close to what I need, but still not there.

But, trying Image Mirror, I see you could very well be able to make what I'm searching for: could you consider writing such a software (starting from Image Mirror's code), or adding features to Image Mirror?

I would like to paint in whatever software (in Windows), but the screen should be flipped horizontally. It should be tailored to painting, i.e. for responsiveness maybe it could update fast only a small area (around where the pointer is), while the rest of the flipped region could be updated slower.

Also specified a link to this thread.
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4wd
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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2012, 07:04:08 PM »

Mirrorimage seems slow, or anyway not fast enough on my PC for painting usage.

Given that there is source code, perhaps it's possible to recode to use DirectX instead of the GDI interface, I would think that would give it a boost.
But then, is the slowdown in the source window polling or the output?

Quote
Thank you very much, 4wd: you're an amazing software discoverer!

 embarassed  Thanks, it's all about how you hold your tongue while typing in search terms.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 10:22:18 PM by 4wd » Logged

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4wd
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2012, 10:21:48 PM »

Another brainwave, (yes, that is scary), you'll still need two monitors but in theory you can stream your Desktop, (and whatever is on it), in real-time using VLC with an input URL of screen://, see here.
Then run another instance of VLC, with its output window on the other monitor, to receive the stream, see here, with a Video Transformation filter of Flip Horizontally, (--transform-type=hflip).

You also may be able to use a single monitor if you only want to flip a window by using the VLC screen-(left,right,height,width) options specifying the windows location on the Desktop, then use the other half of the Desktop for the playback window.  Something that could be semi-automated using AHK or AutoIT to grab the window coordinates and pass them as VLC parameters.

Someone more knowledgeable with VLC may be able to help, (I don't use it).

Or this VH Screen Capture Driver and use VLC for the video transform and output, (input stream VHScrCap://).
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insert_nick
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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2012, 04:45:36 PM »

Good brainwaves, 4wd, that can all be explored.

Anyway, Image Mirror' author, in the very same day I contacted him, implemented my suggestion: I tested it and replied (it was ok), and in the morning I had a mail announcing that on the website a new fresh release of the software was available. Fantastic.

From my tests, it seems to work very well (I still need to investigate on some problems, but I don't know if they're related to Image Mirror).

Unfortunately, there's no way to avoid the need of two screens, because Image Mirror can only flip a rectangular area that is actually shown somewhere in the desktop.

Making a software capable of just flipping the screen, in Windows, seems to be a very challenging task, if possible.

At the moment, I think Image Mirror is the best solution - of course let me know here if some better solution is found.
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