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Author Topic: Double Standards  (Read 3506 times)

Renegade

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Double Standards
« on: December 13, 2006, 10:27:59 AM »
Zaine posted about MS and Open Source, and this is a related issue. From the same annual report:

Quote
We are subject to government litigation and regulatory activity that affects how we design and market our products.     

As a leading global software maker we receive scrutiny from government agencies under U.S. and foreign competition laws. Some jurisdictions also provide private rights of action for competitors or consumers based on alleged anti-competitive conduct.

This doesn't apply to other companies and it's a double standard.

The whole "monopoly" thing just doesn't wash for me. There are (and ALWAYS have been) many different operating systems available. If anyone is to blame, then blame IBM and HP for making their OSes insanely expensive so that nobody could ever afford them.

MS has a reasonably priced OS and other products that are constantly under unfair attack.

If anyone else were to develop "monopolistic" software, would they receive the same treatment? Doubtfully.

As an experiment, try developing some software for left-handed hispanic parapalegic lesbians living in Atlanta to keep track of their iguana collections. Then price it at $10,000 and make sure that it's proprietary closed source and that you've used a lot of anti-piracy measures and copy protection along with a file format that is impossible to reverse engineer. Make the license very strict as well. You'll have a monopoly, but nothing would ever happen.

i.e. Scale matters.

Maybe I'm just grumpy today, but I'm just sick of the "let's beat up MS" thing. They've done more good for computing than any other company.

This is the exact same issue as the entire music thing. The RIAA just isn't intelligent to figure it out though.

e.g License your music for ALL devices, the iPod, the Zune, or whatever. But just get whatever they want figured out.

The issue is when you're big and you want to license your product. Ummm... Hasn't this all been done a trillion times?

These issues aren't that hard to figure out. They might involve some thought and a little bit of work, but they are very, very far from difficult.

At the moment I'm negotiating some patent licensing and it's all just pure Hell trying to get anywhere. Again - similar issues. I wish they'd just get their ducks in line...
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

tinjaw

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Re: Double Standards
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2006, 11:20:17 AM »
If you are a U.S. citizen, join me and vote Libertarian:Thmbsup:

Although I openly talk about my personal opinions on politics, religion, philosophy, and other such highly charged topics, I don't often do so in a public forum that isn't devoted to them or as a reply to a direct question. However, I don't think you can discuss this topic without doing so. I believe that the issue you have touched upon directly, and those it overlaps with, are 100% due to government regulation of business. And the only people/party that would do away with almost all regulation of such matters by the  U.S. government, that currently exists as a viable alternative, is the Libertarian party.

I think that is enough for you to understand my reasoning/position on this matter, so I won't contaminate DonationCoder with any more politically charged rhetoric than what's above. If you wish to discuss any of this stuff with me, I would be happy to do so in a more appropriate location/forum/medium. And, as always, that includes a PM or email. I've had my own domain since the mid-nineties so it is already well known by all things spam related, so I always post is openly without obfuscation. chaim@chaim.com

Chaim "Tinjaw" Krause

mouser

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Re: Double Standards
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2006, 02:39:20 PM »
I can get mad at Microsoft as good as the rest (see my post attacking IE7 which i dislike more each day), BUT i do agree in the sense that i think the extent to which Microsoft gets attacked for things that others get patted on the back for has entered the realm of the comical.

if you swapped the labels of google and microsoft, and put a google label on everything microsoft did, and a microsoft label on everything google did, nothing would change about the press (same thing if you did it about Apple and Microsoft).  the new "google" would be trumpeted and heralded for creating a groundbreaking mp3 player and changing the world with their devine ribbon and earth shatteringly brilliant Desktop operating system.  Wheras the new "microsoft" would be attacking for releasing so many crappy beta things and engaging in monopolistic practices like pricing their services at below cost to kill the competition.

Microsoft does some good stuff - and i feel bad for them now because they just cannot get a fair break in the public relations world - everyone hates on them, and they are just being kicked down the staircase.  Having said that, I don't think they are helping their case that much with some of their recent mediocre stuff..

mitzevo

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Re: Double Standards
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2006, 03:27:53 PM »
Long live oss.
The clock is running. Make the most of today. Time waits for no man. Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift. That's why it is called the present.

Renegade

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Re: Double Standards
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2006, 03:30:03 PM »
Quote
...their recent mediocre stuff...

MS has some real gems, and then again, they do have some real turds. It's almost as if they really want to create some junk to make room for other developers. IE and Outlook are good examples.

Then again, there are others that work well but are underpowered - Notepad. There are a quite few people that make a living off of Notepad being underpowered. (Again - thanks to MS for leaving room for small developers.)

Reading from some insiders, MS has become the IBM that they laughed at years ago - red tape.

But I think you're pretty much right on the money about the Google v Microsoft analogy. It's amazing that these obvious 'violations' from other companies go untouched.

Especially with an Apple v Microsoft comparison. Apple is very closed and does some very anti-competitive things. e.g. OSX runs on Apple hardware...
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

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Re: Double Standards
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2006, 03:30:54 PM »
Long live oss.

OSS in what sense? The GPL poison or OS in the literal sense of "Open Source"?
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

mitzevo

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Re: Double Standards
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2006, 03:33:13 PM »
I don't know, i just felt the urge to shout that since I saw microsoft being mentioned??

ahaha AHA  ;D stupid i know. but what can ya do?  :Thmbsup:
The clock is running. Make the most of today. Time waits for no man. Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift. That's why it is called the present.

f0dder

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Re: Double Standards
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2006, 07:30:47 PM »
Quote
If anyone else were to develop "monopolistic" software, would they receive the same treatment? Doubtfully.
If they became just as big as MS is now, and developed the same "we own you and your computer and your media and your soul" tendencies, they probably would.

Flaming Microsoft just because they're Microsoft is silly - but bashing them when they do something bad (and boy, they often do that!) is okay. There's plenty of reason to attack IE, Vista, many non-kernel developers of MS, et cetera.

If Microsoft looses serious ground, I predict google to be the new boo-hiss-hateya company...
- carpe noctem

Renegade

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Re: Double Standards
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2006, 07:51:06 AM »
I'm not so sure about that Vista thing... MS has been getting far more than their fair share of bad press about security and now that they've locked things down a bit more, we've got people screaming about that. Damned if you do. Damned if you dont'. When will anyone ever be happy? (Well, other than the obvious answer - I become dictator of the planet and mandate mandatory daily marijuana treatments for everyone. We'd have several hours of total peace every day! And as an added bonus the junk food industry would quintuple in value overnight.)

Google already has a few detractors now. Not many, but the rumors grow...

A lot of it is just "beat up the big guy".
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

dk70

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Re: Double Standards
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2006, 12:34:20 PM »
Google are smart at what they do. There is such a thing as quality to think about as well. May be you prefer MS offers in Googles categories, many does not. I dont think they can be compared. Not that I have any illusions about Googles interests or goals. But they do not yet own any market, there are other players. They want to. Should it happen they have to make brilliant strategy maintaining "we are not evil" while silently controlling internet  8)

I thought MS gave room to other developers once they had almost total marketshare - and would not pick up interest until too much movement in wrong direction? Since you mention IE then remember Firefox is not only Firefox but also Google, in a way. Google have proven they can grow fast as hxxx. If web service mania gets more and more common, Google is also targeting businesses, Firefox use could potentially explode. If Google decides to promote Firefox big time then what to do? Scary thought for MS so they came up with IE7 because "we heard you" heh - perhaps also their "Live" stuff.

CodeTRUCKER

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Re: Double Standards
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2006, 01:18:54 PM »
The whole architecture causes one concern.  There is no way an entity that has this kind of tentacles can be good in the big picture.  This is why Scroogle was initiated.  I use the Scroogle Scraper as a search engine substitute.  Works great!  They keep an eye on Big "G" and reports on the unsavory activities.  Check 'em out.   
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 12:48:58 AM by CodeTRUCKER »

dk70

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Re: Double Standards
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2006, 01:52:25 PM »
Yeah of course such a site exist. Should be made if not done already. They need some fighting back. As I see it all companies of Googles size want money and alternative is not any different. Why I said Google is smart, they do make loads of money and still come across as a friendly free service, opposite xxxx or yyyy. How internet works, many try to do the same but Google is more innovative than incompetent so they win  8) Notice how smoothly their backing up of Firefox have taken place. Ive only seen few people complain about Mozilla getting "dirty". Most seem to go Yeah cool, it is ok - we all like Google so thumbs up. Smart they are.

Google search is best for rare/specific keywords or a wicked advanced search, anything popular and it has the ability to stink. Commercial interests can be overwhelming. Im still looking for a Greasemonkey script that will take out those shopping hits, can be done with an extension but it does so much else I dont need. Google is definitely based on search AND advertising.

But Picasa, Google Earth/map, Gmail, Google Reader, Google Bookmarks, Google domain!, Google toolbar, Blogger, Google Analytics, Docs&Spreadsheets and what not  - crap? I dont think so - let them rule :) My brother is trying to make a blog/site of some sort so I just made a personal "group" where we can share uploads, "debate", share documents, whatever. Google delivers and is deadeasy to use. No MS login smell over them, not yet.

Forgot link to "Google behind the screens" http://video.google....e+behind+the+screens nice documentary about new monster. They only want to help you organize the worlds information, that is all!
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 02:49:00 PM by dk70 »