Welcome Guest.   Make a donation to an author on the site September 18, 2014, 12:38:33 AM  *

Please login or register.
Or did you miss your validation email?


Login with username and password (forgot your password?)
Why not become a lifetime supporting member of the site with a one-time donation of any amount? Your donation entitles you to a ton of additional benefits, including access to exclusive discounts and downloads, the ability to enter monthly free software drawings, and a single non-expiring license key for all of our programs.


You must sign up here before you can post and access some areas of the site. Registration is totally free and confidential.
 
The N.A.N.Y. Challenge 2014! Download dozens of custom programs!
   
   Forum Home   Thread Marks Chat! Downloads Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Down
  Reply  |  New Topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Wow: Microsoft Acquires WinInternals/SysInternals!  (Read 17735 times)
mouser
First Author
Administrator
*****
Posts: 33,356



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« on: July 18, 2006, 12:24:46 PM »

This is big news - the people who made filemin, regmon, and a whole bunch of utilities, and who are some of the most knowledgable people about windows internals have now been acuired by microsoft.

Quote
Q. What are you announcing?
A. Winternals and Sysinternals have been acquired by Microsoft. Winternals is a leading provider of systems recovery tools for Windows-based enterprises worldwide and Sysinternals is one of the leading community and enthusiast sites for people interested in information about the internals of the Windows operating system.



from MachinShi on #c++ (efnet)
Logged
Carol Haynes
Waffles for England (patent pending)
Global Moderator
*****
Posts: 7,955



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2006, 12:36:15 PM »

Hmmm ... all sounds very positive but I can't say I am hopeful that this will lead to any benefits outside MS !!
Logged

f0dder
Charter Honorary Member
***
Posts: 8,774



[Well, THAT escalated quickly!]

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2006, 12:49:04 PM »

Oh no Sad

I hope they won't discontinue/mess up the free (sysinternals) tools - nor the (winternals) flagships like ERD commander. Or put a lid on Mark Russinovich.
Logged

- carpe noctem
Carol Haynes
Waffles for England (patent pending)
Global Moderator
*****
Posts: 7,955



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2006, 01:59:13 PM »

Had an interesting effect on their servers ... Page loading time seems to have deteriorated to stationary ... I'd guess the whole world (and their dogs) are downloading all the sysinternals utilities in case MS pulls them. On Winternals there doesn't seem to be any way to purchase any of the products any more (not that anyone outside corporate circles could afford them) ... is this the way things will be from now on ?
Logged

mwb1100
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 1,308


View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2006, 04:12:09 PM »

I imagine this is very good for the SysInternals guys, I don't think that it will be good for anyone else (even Microsoft).  None of the things SysInternals (the free utility/info site) did was by any means outside of the scope of what could be done by Microsoft.  It's just that Microsoft didn't think of the usefulness of the utilities & information or did not want to expend resources on them.

I think that the stuff on Winternals (the non-free Admin Pak and Protection Manager) is technology and/or products that Microsoft is smart to acquire; I think that MS bought them mainly for their Protection Manager technology to deal with running applications in a secured (and ACL'ed) sandbox.  But for most people, the free stuff on SysInternals was what was valuable.

I'd guess that the existing set of functionality of the free SysInternal utilities will continue to be available in some form or another, but I expect that there will be nothing new coming, unless they let Russinovich & Cogswell have some significant independence.  Maybe there will be a short-lived period where there's some new utilities, but I think in the long run, not.
Logged
KenR
Super
Blogger
***
Posts: 825


View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2006, 09:37:59 PM »

I share the concerns expressed by others and see this as a tremendous loss. I seriously doubt further development will occur on existing utilities and expect additional ones will not be developed.

                              hanged   
Ken
Logged

Kenneth P. Reeder, Ph.D.
Clinical Psychologist
Jacksonville, North Carolina  28546
db90h
Coding Snacks Author
Charter Member
***
Posts: 455


Software Engineer

View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2006, 09:53:24 PM »

Ok guys, this isn't that big of a deal to anyone but Russinovich and Cogswell (Sys/Wininternals guys).

Mark Russinovich has been on the inside of Microsoft for many, many years. He's extremely tight with them. He's even got Windows source code access (see Windows 2000 Internals). He publishes with Microsoft Press. He writes articles for MSDN and other MS journals. His tools are mentioned about 10,000 times in MSDN. I'm sure the same is true for Bryce Cogswell, but he has always been a lot less visible.

It's not like Sys/WinInternals is some outsider and Microsoft came and gobbled them up to squash competition. I'm sure SysInternal's will keep publishing free tools, the only difference is WinInternals commercial software will now be generating revenue for Microsoft.

So, chill. It's nice to see good developers being rewarded. Russinovich was already quite rich I'm sure, but all he's ever done is do what he's enjoyed, and he's made the majority of his tools free and open source.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 03:06:05 AM by db90h » Logged
AbteriX
Charter Honorary Member
***
Posts: 1,050


Member #520

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2006, 02:11:40 AM »

//sysinternals.microsoft.com
Quote
Update: 19.07.2007
Download: FileMon
Cost: Freeware
Requirements: XP geniue check; valid Passport password; Free online register after 30 days.
Filemon sends an report about found denieds to microsoft server for analysis, this is completly harmless.
Logged

Greetings, Stefan.
mouser
First Author
Administrator
*****
Posts: 33,356



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2006, 02:45:59 AM »

thanks for the info db, that helps clear things up  Thmbsup
Logged
db90h
Coding Snacks Author
Charter Member
***
Posts: 455


Software Engineer

View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2006, 03:05:16 AM »

//sysinternals.microsoft.com
Quote
Update: 19.07.2007
Download: FileMon
Cost: Freeware
Requirements: XP geniue check; valid Passport password; Free online register after 30 days.
Filemon sends an report about found denieds to microsoft server for analysis, this is completly harmless.

^ Of course, he is joking, for those who didn't 'get' it.
Logged
db90h
Coding Snacks Author
Charter Member
***
Posts: 455


Software Engineer

View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2006, 03:13:26 AM »

And btw, here's an example of how tight Mark Russinovich was with Microsoft some 5 years ago:

I reverse engineered one of his utilities that determines how many days are left in an NT (2k/XP/etc..) trial or beta copy (before expiration). He made efforts to conceal the registry key he got the information from by enumerating through all keys, obfuscating each (XOR), and comparing the obfuscated string to the pre-obfuscated name of the registry key he was looking for. This all in an effort to avoid having a plain text copy of the registry key name easily visible AND to prevent RegMon from easily showing what key he had accessed. (Btw: this is a good technique  .. tho it's slow).

So, being proud I reversed this stuff and wrote a similar tool (except published the information), I emailed him and this is the paraphrased conversation:

(db90h): I reversed your expiration tool. Here's how your obfuscation works and the name of the registry key you tried to hide..
(db90h): ..Did you try to hide the name of the registry key becuse of pressure from Microsoft?
(Mark): Yes. Nice reversing.

Now, granted, this was a responsible thing for him to do even if pressure had not came from Microsoft. I support what he did. I am just saying that he was tight enough with Microsoft for them to have made sure he put in some obfuscation of the registry key name before he even released his tool to the public.

I'd say he has A LOT of friends in high places in Microsoft and I'd say this has A LOT to do with the acquisition.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 03:16:39 AM by db90h » Logged
mrainey
Charter Member
***
Posts: 433


see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2006, 07:30:22 AM »

He has a free video available, the first in a coming series about his tools (the others will be $$).  It's just an overview, but very interesting.  In it, there's some mention of his relationship with Microsoft, from it's rocky start to current "lunch with the MS big shots".

Video is 100+ MB, but downloaded reasonably fast.

http://www.sysinternals.c...0Sysinternals%20Tools.wmv
Logged

Software For Metalworking
http://closetolerancesoftware.com
mwb1100
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 1,308


View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2006, 09:24:18 AM »

It's not like Sys/WinInternals is some outsider and Microsoft came and gobbled them up to squash competition. I'm sure SysInternal's will keep publishing free tools, the only difference is WinInternals commercial software will now be generating revenue for Microsoft.
I don't think this is any particular effort by MS to squash competition or eliminate a source of sensitive information.

Rather, I think that MS may want to distribute these tools in other ways, and more importantly, I think that MS may have other things they want Russinovich and Cogswell to work on than freebie utilitites (I think this is where the  loss to the community will be).

I certainly don't think ill of anyone involved in the deal, I just believe (from a selfish standpoint, granted) that there will be some useful software that will now never see the light of day - not because of a conspiracy or something, but simply because now they'll be doing something else.
Logged
mrainey
Charter Member
***
Posts: 433


see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2006, 11:44:07 AM »

Steve Gibson collected the program files back in October.

http://www.GRC.com/miscfi...SysInternals_07_18_06.zip
Logged

Software For Metalworking
http://closetolerancesoftware.com
Carol Haynes
Waffles for England (patent pending)
Global Moderator
*****
Posts: 7,955



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2006, 12:52:40 PM »

Bit naughty of him (it is expressly forbidden in the EULA) but useful at the moment since the website is more or less unuseable with the whole world frantically downloading in a panic!
Logged

kimmchii
Honorary Member
**
Posts: 360


View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2006, 02:30:09 AM »

nvm, found it.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2006, 08:05:40 PM by kimmchii » Logged

If you find a good solution and become attached to it, the solution may become your next problem.
~Robert Anthony
db90h
Coding Snacks Author
Charter Member
***
Posts: 455


Software Engineer

View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2006, 02:58:14 AM »

It's not like Sys/WinInternals is some outsider and Microsoft came and gobbled them up to squash competition. I'm sure SysInternal's will keep publishing free tools, the only difference is WinInternals commercial software will now be generating revenue for Microsoft.
I don't think this is any particular effort by MS to squash competition or eliminate a source of sensitive information.

Yea, that's what I said ;p. Or were you just agreeing and expanding?
Logged
mwb1100
Supporting Member
**
Posts: 1,308


View Profile Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2006, 09:03:12 AM »

Yea, that's what I said ;p. Or were you just agreeing and expanding?
Yup.
Logged
Sentinel
Columnist
***
Posts: 130


Generally confused

View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2006, 01:58:49 PM »

Hello all,

As you may have noticed I've not been around much lately, that being said, I always like to keep up with developments on my favourite site.  Though I may not be posting, I am reading.  cheesy

I've spent the past year working all too closely with Microsoft (a lot of the reason I am not here) and in my opinion (as subjective as it may be) they are a changed company, putting putting greens, 'Micrototty' and free food aside.  In recent times my primary focus has been on the Sybari and Whale acquisitions, but from spending significant time both with 'historic' employees and those who are in it for the acquisition ride, I've begun to see things differently.  Recently Microsoft employees have been able to publicly criticise Microsoft history, policy, and influence it.  Frankly some of the recent 'Anti-Microsoft' Microsoft, at Microsoft, presentations have had me on the floor laughing.  In the past those responsible would have been lined up against a wall and shot, but now things are different.  Welcome to Microsoft's Orange Revolution.  It seems Microsoft have finally been able to understand the value and implication of having positive, driven, up and coming individuals with something to prove.  Microsoft have not before time, ultimately understood the cutting edge to compete.  If you've ever worn Oakley sunglasses, worn TNF clothing or relied on 'Five Ten' footware you will understand that the key to competing at all is having those who ideologically believe in what they are trying to achieve pushing the restraints of their employers for the good of everyone.  They are finally looking back, recognising where they have made mistakes, why they were made and ultimately addressing them as they move into the future. That's the thing, Microsoft have finally realised that they can be negative about something which ultimately leads to an end result that makes a positive outcome for everyone, profits included.  And not before time.

Years of security woes and growing competition from the likes of Google have meant Microsoft has been forced to adapt.  Rather than trying to play catch-up with some of the new technological innovations out there, they would rather buy into best of breed companies in any given area and shape the technology for mass market adoption.  Of course, they are not just doing this to get hold of the technology, much more important to them are the people whom they wish to retain at all costs so they are given a very free reign to continue innovating.

Depending where you are in the world, the current Honda advertising applies: Hate something, change something, make something better.  Damned annoying tune, but very fitting for what 'Mickeysoft' are also trying to achieve.

I am certain that if advancing frontiers are not the objective, many of those idealistic employees would leave tomorrow.  I believe security sparked a significant rethink for Microsoft back in 2001-2002 which finally is starting to benefit us all, security related or otherwise.  Let me assure you that the 'new Microsoft' I've encountered are an incredibly resolute, astute, independently thinking entity. Realistically they now have to be to compete in the current marketplace - endless revisions of Office and Windows are no way to guarantee marketshare long-term.  MS have realised that they have to branch out and provide a full range of solutions or risk becoming obsolete.

Forget Vista woes as a view of Microsoft as a company, that reality is long past, despite many best intentions to get Vista back on track the direction the product took early on meant it is a lumbering beast and the project will continue to be until release.  That isn't the case for most current MS projects or those of their subsidiaries.  Frankly I'll be first to point out that Microsoft are still making a lot of mistakes and are still playing catch-up in many areas (MSPod anyone?) but as far as PC systems and application software are concerned, Microsoft appears to have found a new vision.  You can see the shift in thinking in Office 2007.  For many years each Office revision was pretty much identical to the last, but perhaps with a new coat of paint on the toolbar.  The radical rethink in how Office 2007 operates is a direct reflection of what is happening within MS as a company.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about the Winternals acquisition, frankly if anything I believe it will make the 'elite' offerings from Winternals more accessible to the common user (if you are are current Winternals customer as I am, you can testify to the dongle and downloading nightmare their products have become  Wink ).  Why do I think things will be more accessible?  Well, for starters, any company with a Select agreement in time is likely to receive and be able to evaluate the Winternals products (in some form or another) and purchase at a reduced cost without an annoying piece of plastic to plug into a USB port, plus they can avoid the convoluted reseller channels and confusion that comes with them.  Beyond that any technology of value will ultimately make it into Windows Emergency Recovery Console (ERD Commander, Remote Recover), Windows itself (Defrag Manager, Crash Analyzer Wizard) and existing systems such as SMS and MOM (Insight for AD, Protection Manager).

Ultimately this will be a blow to the reseller layer rather than to the end user.  I would think that Microsoft will allow the 'pet' Sysinternals project will continue to run for as long as the current Winternals people consider it useful, plus Sysinternals probably does make Winternals quite a bit of money as you do have to site license a lot of the software (e.g. BgInfo) if you wish to roll it out effectively in the Enterprise.

Consider this, does Microsoft want to take useful tools for managing Microsoft products away from you, and if so why?  If not, what would they gain from the very same tools becoming mainstream?  I'll give you a little clue...  In my opinion this has a lot to do with how Microsoft wishes to play the game against VMWare, et al in the emerging utility computing markets.  Effective systems management will play a big part in this.  This I'll perhaps go into detail about at some point.  For now the end user cannot lose.

Whist we are here I'd like to point you to the seemingly unnoticed Softricity acquisition, announced on the same day as the Winternals one  http://www.microsoft.com/...06/07-17SoftricityPR.mspx.  I'd be willing to bet that this has more impact on your day to day life within the next 5 years (or 2 years for any forward thinking Enterprise) than the Winternals products ever had and in many respects in time if developed to its ultimate conclusion should do away with the need for a lot of the tools Winternals currently provide.  Let me be first to conjecture that this can only be positive for all of us.

Thank you for your consideration during my stereotypical rant.  Cool

Sentinel


Edit: Big fat update
« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 03:14:21 AM by Sentinel » Logged

Designated "proofreading free" zone.
Sentinel
Columnist
***
Posts: 130


Generally confused

View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2006, 02:04:54 PM »

Oh, I'd also like to point out that JC is right in so many ways.  I'd also like to point out (more importantly) that JC may indeed be in breech of the DCMA so guilty until proven innocent applies.  Let the converging swat teams be a lesson to us alll.  cheesy

It still isn't going to make me pay my Bitsum maintence, dammit.  Well, ok, maybe later  Wink
Logged

Designated "proofreading free" zone.
mouser
First Author
Administrator
*****
Posts: 33,356



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2006, 02:13:03 PM »

Sentinel!!!   Kiss
great to hear from you and great to hear you are doing well.

i think your points are really well taken.  ms has taken some hits in the recent past and it "feels" to me like they might be using this as an opportunity to improve the company significantly.

i joke all the time that people have such innate biases.

if ms did what google does, and google did was ms does, you can bet the headlines would be the same:
lavish praise on google for their brilliant delays of their OS.  and hatred of MS for releasing all these half-assed half-finished, always in beta evil web apps.  and don't get me started on the public hangings that would occur if microsoft tried to pull the no-details-revealed stuff that google does with its advertising things. microsoft cannot get a break - but perhaps that's what they've needed to convince them to cut out some of the fat and get back to focusing on quality.
Logged
Carol Haynes
Waffles for England (patent pending)
Global Moderator
*****
Posts: 7,955



see users location on a map View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2006, 02:23:11 PM »

Welcome back Sentinel - in such good voice you included you eulogy twice in the one post Wink

For those who want to grab Sysinternal tools you can get them from the website (which seems to be working again) or if you just want to download the lot 'en masse' use Internet Explorer to visit http://ftp://download.sysinternals.com/Files and selct all and copy to a folder.
Logged

Sentinel
Columnist
***
Posts: 130


Generally confused

View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2006, 02:37:27 PM »

Wow, I really feel privileged to be remembered.  That being said, the erm, slight duplication issue was out of my control, yet is now somehow magically fixed (spelling errors omitted).

Back on track, I've contacted a number of 'key players' at Microsoft for comment regarding the Winternals buyout.  I've heard nothing back so far meaning they are either drunk on expenses (again) or don't have the faintest idea (along with the rest of us).  I'm going for plan 'B'.  I'll let you know if I hear anything else.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2006, 02:58:34 PM by Sentinel » Logged

Designated "proofreading free" zone.
f0dder
Charter Honorary Member
***
Posts: 8,774



[Well, THAT escalated quickly!]

see users location on a map View Profile WWW Read user's biography. Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2006, 02:38:51 PM »

Quote
but perhaps that's what they've needed to convince them to cut out some of the fat and get back to focusing on quality.

Ho humm, cut fat and focus on quality? I just don't see that happening, with them focusing on eye-candy in Vista. Even WinXP came on a CD, Vista comes as a 3.19GB DVD... "but that's not a problem, modern harddrives are large!" - sure, but that size tells you something about system requirements as well. "But that's no problem, everybody have fast CPUs, lots of RAM, and powerful GPUs". No, not everybody has, and even for people that do, do you want your base operating system to chew up massive resources?

Their endless company acquisitions seems like "we've got to have that feature too", which either means MS gets bigger and suffer even lousier internal communication, or that there's less people to manage more code - resulting in ever-poorer software.

I'm not at all impressed. Too bad there's no viable alternative to Windows >_<
Logged

- carpe noctem
Sentinel
Columnist
***
Posts: 130


Generally confused

View Profile WWW Give some DonationCredits to this forum member
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2006, 02:46:53 PM »

Slightly off topic, but if it helps, all MS employees have been forced to 'enjoy' Vista from the early beta stages.  I've heard a lot of pain and curses (damn you Dell for not prodviding a DX10 laptop 6 months earlier it seems!).  Think of it this way, it may suck, but MS has been forced to endure the brunt of its lameness up until now.  cheesy

If that isn't punishment enough, it seems the only fitting punishment involves Bill Gates, a bowl of Jello and the realisation that marketing direction is no direction at all.


Lets hope that ERD Commander 2006 makes a showing without ending up on 2 DVDs...


« Last Edit: July 20, 2006, 02:49:48 PM by Sentinel » Logged

Designated "proofreading free" zone.
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Up
  Reply  |  New Topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
   Forum Home   Thread Marks Chat! Downloads Search Login Register  

DonationCoder.com | About Us
DonationCoder.com Forum | Powered by SMF
[ Page time: 0.061s | Server load: 0.06 ]