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Author Topic: Windows 10 Professional:UAC (User Account Control)& especially commandline tools  (Read 441 times)

ital2

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As I had said, I had tried to work with a Windows 10 Professional machine during some days, and for probable motherboard problems, I didn't get that system stable. But I also I had problems with command line tools which W10 Prof. systematically refused to execute, notwithstanding all my tweaking tries from hours of reading respective tips and tricks on web forums; I suppose that W10 Home would accept these tools executing but for other reasons (establishing a little LAN network mid-term), I would like to get W10 Prof. instead, so I would like to find a solution to these problems.

Those tools are for example in the form (from the "run" window, then the following, then enter/return)

toolpath\toolname.exe someattributes sourcefilepath\sourcefilename.suffix targetfilepath\targetfilename.suffix

From this input into the commandline, those tools then are expected to open a command window (the thing which is black as a DOS window).

With sourcefile, I mean the file upon the tool will work, and by targetfile, I mean the file the tool will then create from it will have done upon the data from the sourcefile, so in reality, even with misfunction, there is no harm done to the source file which is just read, and the newly-created file will be some changed copy of the source file, not some ".exe" or other harmful file, but W10 Prof just refuses to execute those command lines.

I tried this with an administrator account, but not successfully. I tried to put the tool into other directories and for example into its own directory

c:\toolname\toolname.exe

instead of

c:\toolname.exe

or c:\programs\toolname\toolname.exe

and I also tried to put the sourcefile and the targetfile into other directories than ones that Windows constantly checks. And as said, I messed around with the UAC settings, then was not even able to reset them them, after all that messing around with it, according to those hints and tricks had not been successful.

Also, I did not even create an ordinary user before sending back the pc, just just the administrator account which should be allowed much more, permission-wise, than an additional user account.

It goes without saying that with Windows XP Home, all this works smoothly, and also, the tools in question work also with W10 or are specific versions to work with W10.

So I suppose now that I missed some core concepts in this permission control, since neither directory permissions nor user permissions did not work, for these command line tools.

To begin with, when Windows speaks of folder permissions, it's not evident if that means the folders in which the tools-to-run are put in, and/or the folders in which the files-to-be-worked-upon / files-to-be-accessed-from-these-tools, and the coordination of folder access in general and of account control - what some account is permitted to access / to do - is not evident for me.

Also, I do not understand why the administrator - not some additional user - would not have the right to run some tool from the commandline, independently from the storage folder of that tool, when on the other hand, any program installed into the programs folders - c:\programs (x86)\ and c:\programs\ is executed when run from the start panel, but a tool put into a folder c:\programs\toolname\toolname.exe, when I try to execute it from the commandline, which means from the Windows "execute/run" dialog - which is necessary to enter the necessary attributes, does not run.

I suppose that any program in c:\programs\specificprogramfolder is executed when triggered from the system, is sort of "object attributes heritage" from folder c:\programs, but as said, when I install those tools into such a folder, then try to run them from commandline, which is refused, so it becomes evident that there are possibly 3 or more security concepts which come into play: folder permissions, account permissions, and then also permissions depending on from which system internals a tool/program has been triggered, even when folder and/or account is/are identical, or then also, if has been triggered with or without attributes.

No help I found - and I tried hard, just finished a 1200-pages-W10-Prof.(!)-book without getting any help on this from there either - specifically treated this run-from-commandline (and/or with attributes) permission problem, which, as said, is probably specific to the Prof. versions of Windows in general and/or to the W10 Prof. version in particular.

(If I hadn't bought so many programs for Windows which I then had to leave behind, or would need to run from within a virtualization tool which probably will not be practical, I would jump from XP to iOS, not from XP to W10, but it's not only about buying anew, it's especially about finding, choosing, learning all those new programs then, so I'd better learn some Windows internals.)

MilesAhead

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This tutorial may shed some light if I follow what seems to be happening:

https://www.tenforum...nt-windows-10-a.html

I think with Vista they changed it so that the "administrative type" account created by default when you set it up is really similar to the "operator" account on Windows NT.  You can register and unregister COM/ActiveX stuff, install uninstall stuff, but it is not the full-blown Administrator account.  The tutorial shows how to enable and disable this built in Administrator(elevated) account on the system.

As for stuff that will work on Home and not on Pro all I can think of is it may think it is on a Domain rather than a Workgroup.  So greater security may be involved.

If you haven't tried the Windows 10 Forum I would try posting your questions there.  There are very knowledgeable people who would be glad to help you out.  I never did much with Win 10 even though I was in the Insider Program because all I had was a Laptop.  Even getting it to install and run without hanging took all day defragging all layers of the disk storage space in the real PC as well as the virtual machine etc..  It was just too slow to use.  With only one computer it was too risky to install it on the metal.

But I would be very surprised if nobody over at ten forums had any helpful suggestions.  It's worth the few minutes to sign up.  Needless to say all is free.  No charges, no spam etc..  :)

Mikekolly

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Thanks for the excellent tutorial!  I want to ask, i have no motherboard problem but still my windows system is not stable. :)

ital2

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Thank you for your forum hint. It's correct that in specialized forums, chances are much higher; before my post here, I had just searched by searching and reading, not by posting the problem.

Also, the Elevated-Account hint is a very valuable one. Of course, looking out for any account solution would be the wrong approach since I have to run those tools with respect to my regular computing, so an account change before and afterwards would be out of the question, and doing it all in an elevated admin account, incl. web browsing, is not recommended by anyone. In the few days I had that pc, I did it all in that regular admin account, since three thirds of my doings were of the administrive kind, but I was decided to settle down to a regular user account afterwards.

So for SPECIFIC things which can not harm, a regular user account, even in Win10 Professional, should be able to be tweaked that way, and that's the problem I should from now on try to solve. Their folder permission control seems to be a step into that direction, meaning it's an exception for folders but which seems to apply to actions done in/upon those folders, not to actions done by exectables FROM such folders.

So my question has been better clarified, Thanks!

MilesAhead

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@ital2 I think the regular posters on 10 forums would agree with you afa not running everything out of the built in Admin account.  That would be like running as "root" all the time in Linux.   But I do not know the nature of the programs etc..

I am pretty confident they could muster better suggestions than I as they have had several years of experience running the various releases and builds of W10.  Also many of them are retired and have a support background.  They just like to keep a hand in trying to help out with problems.

If you find out anything please post back the results because I am sure a few readers here would be curious how things pan out.  And of course someone in this forum may have an insight or two.  :)