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Author Topic: Holy day  (Read 1663 times)

Tuxman

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Holy day
« on: December 22, 2015, 03:08:16 AM »
Merry solstice, dear friends.

rjbull

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Re: Holy day
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2015, 05:00:04 PM »
Of related interest:

BBC Radio 4: Beyond Belief, 21st Dec. 2015
Quote
Yule

December 21st - the shortest day in the year - is the day pagans across Europe are marking the Winter Solstice; an ancient festival, connected to the lowest position of the sun in the sky. It has been celebrated for millennia, and yet, its relationship to the relatively recent Christian celebration of Christmas is inseparable. It is no coincidence that a festival marking the 'rebirth' of the new sun in the sky comes just days before the celebration of the birth of Jesus, seen by Christians as the Son of God. How did this relationship develop? Where did many of the familiar customs we associate with Christmas come from?

Ernie Rea explores the pagan origins of Christmas with Ronald Hutton, professor of History at Bristol University; JJ Middleway, a celebrant and ritualist based in the Druid tradition; and the reverend Steve Hollinghurst, a Church of England vicar and author of 'New Age Paganism and Christian Mission'.

Podcast available.

tomos

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Re: Holy day
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2015, 05:10:43 PM »
Merry solstice, dear friends.

You're late :p
nice to know though that the days will be getting longer from here on out (in the northern hemisphere at any rate).
Tom

tomos

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Re: Holy day
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2015, 05:19:07 PM »
Of related interest:

BBC Radio 4: Beyond Belief, 21st Dec. 2015

thanks :up: will have a listen.
someone online was wishing a 'happy Lucia' lately which got me rooting -- it's a Christian saints day celebrated in Scandinavian countries on December the 13th, which apparently was the 21st before the calendar was changed:

Quote from: wikipedia
Her feast once coincided with the Winter Solstice, the shortest day of the year before calendar reforms, so her feast day has become a festival of light.[4][5]
I suspect it was always a festival of light...

(https://en.wikipedia...i/Saint_Lucy%27s_Day)
Tom

Tuxman

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Re: Holy day
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2015, 05:25:39 PM »

Tuxman

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Re: Holy day
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2015, 05:27:23 PM »
Of related interest

Sure thing, if you'd prefer to make everything a weird form of Christendom ...  :huh:

tomos

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Re: Holy day
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2015, 05:30:05 PM »
Tom

Tuxman

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Re: Holy day
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2015, 05:32:05 PM »
Nö!

The winter solstice is related to the sun's highest point on the particular day, which means "Dec 22nd at noon" which was around the time I posted here.  :P

tomos

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Re: Holy day
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2015, 05:45:52 PM »
Nö!

The winter solstice is related to the sun's highest point on the particular day, which means "Dec 22nd at noon" which was around the time I posted here.  :P
hmmm, okay,
I (always) thought it was always on the 21st :-\

Wikipedia doesnt give any date, and says this
=>
Quote
Observances

Although the instant of the solstice can be calculated,[7] direct observation of the solstice by amateurs is impossible because the sun moves too slowly or appears to stand still (the meaning of "solstice"). However, by use of astronomical data tracking, the precise timing of its occurrence is now public knowledge. One cannot directly detect the precise instant of the solstice (by definition, one cannot observe that an object has stopped moving until one later observes that it has not moved further from the preceding spot, or that it has moved in the opposite direction)[citation needed]. Further, to be precise to a single day, one must be able to observe a change in azimuth or elevation less than or equal to about 1/60 of the angular diameter of the sun. Observing that it occurred within a two-day period is easier, requiring an observation precision of only about 1/16 of the angular diameter of the sun. Thus, many observations are of the day of the solstice rather than the instant. This is often done by observing the sunrise and sunset or using an astronomically aligned instrument that allows a ray of light to be cast on a certain point around that time. Before the scientific revolution, many forms of observances, astronomical, symbolic or ritualistic, had evolved according to the beliefs of various cultures, many of which are still practiced today.

Are you familiar with Newgrange in Ireland? (Looking for a decent video on it...)


Edit// in the infobox at the beginning in the wikipedia page:
Quote
Date
Between December 21 and December 23 (NH)
I'm learning ;-)
Tom
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 05:52:13 PM by tomos »

Tuxman

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Re: Holy day
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2015, 05:48:02 PM »
The exact day depends on the nature.  :D
The German Wikipedia has a list for the upcoming years.

Hm, a video? For what?

tomos

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Re: Holy day
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2015, 05:55:40 PM »
Hm, a video? For what?

Newgrange that I asked you about. It's a 5,000 y.o. 'passage tomb':

Quote
Once a year, at the winter solstice, the rising sun shines directly along the long passage, illuminating the inner chamber and revealing the carvings inside, notably the triple spiral on the front wall of the chamber. This illumination lasts for about 17 minutes. [..] The sunlight enters the passage through a specially contrived opening, known as a roofbox, directly above the main entrance.
https://en.wikipedia...ki/Newgrange#Purpose
Tom

40hz

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Re: Holy day
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2015, 08:24:50 AM »
I suspect it was always a festival of light...


One of them anyway. ;D

Depending on which pagan or craft practitioner you speak to, the festival of light could also be Imbloc, which is traditionally celebrated on midwinter's day and marks the return of spring. The Christian feastday of Candlemas (Feb 2 usually) was conveniently located next to it in the same manner Christmas was relocated close to the solstice - for purely practical rather than scriptural reasons.

When reprogramming a society's spiritual belief system, it's generally wiser to co-opt and meet the older tradition half way, rather than try to engineer a complete and immediate overhaul.  :)