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Poll

You are buying software -- the payment processor requires you give your phone number. You think:

Sure, will give it
Dont like, but give it anyway
Dont like, protest -- but give it in the end
Go elsewhere
Give a fake number

Last post Author Topic: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?  (Read 1996 times)

tomos

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Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« on: September 22, 2015, 03:29:45 PM »
I was trying to upgrade a piece of software this evening.
The payment processor required my:
  • Name
  • Full Address
  • email
  • Phone nr.

For phone number, I gave them a number with my country code and the correct number of zeros after.
It looks like they check the number -- for too many zeros at least ;-)
They refused to process the payment without my phone number.
I canceled the order thinking I could use paypal or some other method -- but it all goes through the same payment processor.

Am I just being stubborn - or is this the norm these days? (or both?)
I dont believe it's the norm here in Germany - and it's a while since I updated anything via one of the bigger payment processors, so I cant even remember if I used give my number before...

(Feel free to make suggestions for poll imporvements.)
Tom

Curt

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2015, 04:04:41 PM »
"both"

For quite a number of years I would refuse to give a phone number, for the very simple reason that I didn't have a phone! As time went bye it became apparent that it was "get a phone, or be left behind". I have chosen the option to give them the number to my landline phone, because it can't receive text messages.. Hmm... I would say some more but Firefox is upgrading to version 41 as I am "trying to" type

Modified via Firefox 41:

But you asked if it is reasonable to require the phone number, and my answer is a loud NO, it's not reasonable!

« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 04:10:56 PM by Curt »

f0dder

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2015, 04:09:53 PM »
I would probably go elsewhere, unless we're talking really specialized software with an enterprise pricetag... and then I wouldn't be the one buying, anyway.
- carpe noctem

wraith808

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2015, 04:22:26 PM »
I have a throw away google voice number for this.  Many (Most?) Payment processors just require numbers.  If the software publisher required a phone number just for funsies, then I'd go somewhere else.

tomos

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2015, 05:06:18 PM »
I have a throw away google voice number for this.  Many (Most?) Payment processors just require numbers.

google voice only works for incoming calls with a US number AFAIK --  will have a look tomorrow.


If the software publisher required a phone number just for funsies, then I'd go somewhere else.

It's just the payment processor (I think), but they are one that I'm not familiar with, and lately what with everyone wanting my location for no good reason, I'm getting a bit touchy about this kind of thing.
Tom

wraith808

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2015, 05:18:31 PM »
I have a throw away google voice number for this.  Many (Most?) Payment processors just require numbers.

google voice only works for incoming calls with a US number AFAIK --  will have a look tomorrow.

That is incorrect.  I have it, and use it for outgoing calls all the time.  As to whether it's US only, I'm not sure.

4wd

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2015, 05:27:49 PM »
http://www.fakenamegenerator.com/ - generate a number

Otherwise, I give them the number of a UK mobile that we use while over there, it's turned off while in Australia and the number remains active while there's credit on the account.

I've also just used a free activated SIM, with no credit on it (prepaid), because they'll still receive SMS' for any verification and I just remove it from the phone afterwards.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2015, 06:07:20 PM »
Sure, no problem. Here's my phone number: (111) 222-3333

Bet me I'm lying... :D

Hay, maybe I'm a bad person ... But my automatic reflex to an overly invasive line of questioning, is to start probing that system back.

wraith808

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2015, 06:26:57 PM »
One thing about fake numbers- sometimes they have to verify the purchase because of the credit card company.  It can get rejected because of invalid phone number, then that payment processor will not take that card again.  Ask me how I know...

mwb1100

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2015, 12:37:38 AM »
Sure, no problem. Here's my phone number: (111) 222-3333

(301) 555-1313 or (202) 456-1414 for me.

And if (not) necessary, my "address" is either:

  - 1313 Mockingbird Lane, or

  - 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW

tomos

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2015, 03:19:01 AM »
I've added 'Give a fake number' to the Poll ;)
Tom

dr_andus

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2015, 05:04:06 AM »
One thing about fake numbers- sometimes they have to verify the purchase because of the credit card company.

I think this might be the case in the UK as well. I suspect phone numbers and email addresses get tied to your physical address and your credit card number, in the name of identity fraud detection or something... Which is not to say that they are not harvested for direct marketing along the way somewhere. Unfortunately in the UK even the local government sells voter registration data, which is just shameful.

wraith808

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2015, 07:33:27 AM »
One thing about fake numbers- sometimes they have to verify the purchase because of the credit card company.

I think this might be the case in the UK as well. I suspect phone numbers and email addresses get tied to your physical address and your credit card number, in the name of identity fraud detection or something... Which is not to say that they are not harvested for direct marketing along the way somewhere. Unfortunately in the UK even the local government sells voter registration data, which is just shameful.

I've actually had the credit card company contact me based off of a purchase to make sure it's me.  My card hasn't been stolen... but it gives me a measure of peace to know that they do that.

Innuendo

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2015, 07:38:35 AM »
Most payment processors merely want the phone number as a way to be able to contact you if something goes wrong with the payment. There's really nothing nefarious going on, but it is kind of a hold-over from the days before everyone had text messaging and email.

I do know at one point credit card processors would check your phone number with the bank to verify identities, but I don't think they do that so much anymore and it's just a legacy entry on forms.

I've had the same phone number for over a decade & have been buying things on the internet for way longer than that. I've always given my real phone number and never had anything ever come of it. Having said that, though, I do live in a country (United States) that has a national Do Not Call list for telemarketers and live in a state that has an even stricter state-wide Do Not Call list.

I'll get an 'unwanted' call from a telemarketer maybe once every four months or so....just because some people refuse to play by the rules.


tomos

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2015, 07:57:36 AM »
I'll get an 'unwanted' call from a telemarketer maybe once every four months or so....just because some people refuse to play by the rules.

I never even get that much -  and would like to keep it that way :-\
I also know from experience that once some people get your number, they never give up. But I suppose that the payment processors hopefully wont be getting into the business of passing on your phone number...


I've actually had the credit card company contact me based off of a purchase to make sure it's me.  My card hasn't been stolen... but it gives me a measure of peace to know that they do that.

I've had that too. I dont use the card much, and made a big purchase a while back. At first I thought it was someone trying to con me, which made for an interesting phonecall :-)
Tom

MilesAhead

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2015, 01:03:28 PM »
Another one for your list

* Give their Customer Support phone number to see if you get an email about being a wise guy.

tomos

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2015, 07:49:11 AM »
Belated update to my attempted purchase that sparked the thread:

the software developer emailed me an invoice, and I paid via paypal.

I was a little embarrassed about having kicked up a fuss, he was so nice about it.
Apparently it is quite common these days, requesting a phone number...
Tom

wraith808

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2015, 08:06:15 AM »
Belated update to my attempted purchase that sparked the thread:

the software developer emailed me an invoice, and I paid via paypal.

I was a little embarrassed about having kicked up a fuss, he was so nice about it.
Apparently it is quite common these days, requesting a phone number...


And if you look at it from a certain angle- you supplied your phone number in any case.  Paypal requires it too.  ;D

Stoic Joker

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2015, 11:20:58 AM »
Apparently it is quite common these days, requesting a phone number...

Just because it is - or is perceived as being - a "common" practice, doesn't make it a good idea. It's quite common for brick-N-mortar clerks to ask for phone/Email even if you're paying cash. And they have an entire litany of bullshit excuses for why they "Need" this information...which they actually don't. Because some time back some idiot marketing scumbag coined the term "Constant Contact" for the purpose of (justifying spam) putting a positive spin on the practice of bugging the shit out of people.

wraith808

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2015, 01:09:59 PM »
Apparently it is quite common these days, requesting a phone number...

Just because it is - or is perceived as being - a "common" practice, doesn't make it a good idea. It's quite common for brick-N-mortar clerks to ask for phone/Email even if you're paying cash. And they have an entire litany of bullshit excuses for why they "Need" this information...which they actually don't. Because some time back some idiot marketing scumbag coined the term "Constant Contact" for the purpose of (justifying spam) putting a positive spin on the practice of bugging the shit out of people.

Brick and Mortar paying cash- I never give them anything I don't *want* to.  Online using a credit card though... you're trying to ice skate uphill.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2015, 02:18:04 PM »
Apparently it is quite common these days, requesting a phone number...

Just because it is - or is perceived as being - a "common" practice, doesn't make it a good idea. It's quite common for brick-N-mortar clerks to ask for phone/Email even if you're paying cash. And they have an entire litany of bullshit excuses for why they "Need" this information...which they actually don't. Because some time back some idiot marketing scumbag coined the term "Constant Contact" for the purpose of (justifying spam) putting a positive spin on the practice of bugging the shit out of people.

Brick and Mortar paying cash- I never give them anything I don't *want* to.  Online using a credit card though... you're trying to ice skate uphill.

Yeah yeah...that's what they want you to think. But the sad reality of what they actually check (e.g. the CCV & zip code) during a typical "verification" is almost laughable. Sure some are getting better - I think/hope/am told... - but the bulk of them get jack squat out of me during a normal transaction ... and I've yet to have a single one fail.

Classic BS Question: What's the best way for us to contact you?
My Answer: I'll let you know that when and if I feel the need to be contacted.


Or the typical appeal to fear: OMFG what if there is an issue with your order??!??
My first answer: what if there's not...
2nd Answer: I'm pretty sure I'll be able to guess that if/when there's no tracking information on the order status.

There is IMO no valid reason for seller in a single instance transaction to have/need/ask for a phone number on the internet ... Unless they happen to be delivering the item in person, and want to call for directions to your house.

MilesAhead

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2015, 02:30:50 PM »
Unless they happen to be delivering the item in person, and want to call for directions to your house.

.. and when you see what looks like a sink hole, drive right in.  It is not really a hole.  The entrance to our driveway is disguised that way to keep out the insurance salesmen.  :)


wraith808

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2015, 03:08:21 PM »
Yeah yeah...that's what they want you to think. But the sad reality of what they actually check (e.g. the CCV & zip code) during a typical "verification" is almost laughable. Sure some are getting better - I think/hope/am told... - but the bulk of them get jack squat out of me during a normal transaction ... and I've yet to have a single one fail.

That's how I used to look at it.  Then I was trying to buy some electronic widget (don't remember what) with my fake number and address (with the correct zip code).  First is was in verification.  Then it was rejected.  I was thinking that I'd just correct it and it would be fine.  But they'd reported it as fraud, and my card was locked.  And even after I got it unlocked, that processor wouldn't take the card- it had been blacklisted.  Very frustrating- at least, until I realized that this whole sequence of events was my fault.  At that point, I was chagrined.  And got a fake number where I could be contacted- which eventually led to a google voice number.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2015, 03:34:27 PM »
Yeah yeah...that's what they want you to think. But the sad reality of what they actually check (e.g. the CCV & zip code) during a typical "verification" is almost laughable. Sure some are getting better - I think/hope/am told... - but the bulk of them get jack squat out of me during a normal transaction ... and I've yet to have a single one fail.

That's how I used to look at it.  Then I was trying to buy some electronic widget (don't remember what) with my fake number and address (with the correct zip code).  First is was in verification.  Then it was rejected.  I was thinking that I'd just correct it and it would be fine.  But they'd reported it as fraud, and my card was locked.  And even after I got it unlocked, that processor wouldn't take the card- it had been blacklisted.  Very frustrating- at least, until I realized that this whole sequence of events was my fault.  At that point, I was chagrined.  And got a fake number where I could be contacted- which eventually led to a google voice number.

So that's one fringe case out of??

Just because one source decided to take a hyper reactive swan dive off the deep end doesn't mean the privacy baby needs to go out with the transaction bathwater. Sure the PCI folks are just dying to find some - any - flimsy assed excuse to put the burden of proof back onto the card holder - or anyone else - so they can gets their pockets lined faster ... But that's just too bad.

Right is right, and bullshit is bullshit. So I say raise hell any time one of these clowns tries to cross the necessary and proper information line. They need to be told no a few times until they start learning boundaries.

wraith808

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Re: Is it reasonable to *require* phone nr. when purchasing software?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2015, 05:15:24 PM »
Just because one source decided to take a hyper reactive swan dive off the deep end doesn't mean the privacy baby needs to go out with the transaction bathwater. Sure the PCI folks are just dying to find some - any - flimsy assed excuse to put the burden of proof back onto the card holder - or anyone else - so they can gets their pockets lined faster ... But that's just too bad.

That was the first time I had the issue.  Not the only.  In the other cases, they called me on my google voice, I verified the purchase, and everything was good.