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Last post Author Topic: Directory Opus 11 Released!  (Read 34118 times)

myarmor

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2014, 04:54:43 AM »
I'm just genuinely trying to make an economic calculation for myself, and I haven't been able to find sufficient articulation of the benefits to be able to make that calculation. BTW, I own two v. 10 PRO licenses at the moment and using Dopus on 3 machines (2 PCs, 1 netbook).
I'm just going to leave this link here: What's new

myarmor

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2014, 04:58:14 AM »
Btw, in DO10 with just about every update, in addition to bugfixes there was a somewhat steady stream of bigger and smaller
improvements and/or additions through the years.

I assume they keep it up in DO11.

dr_andus

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2014, 05:40:51 AM »
I'm just genuinely trying to make an economic calculation for myself, and I haven't been able to find sufficient articulation of the benefits to be able to make that calculation. BTW, I own two v. 10 PRO licenses at the moment and using Dopus on 3 machines (2 PCs, 1 netbook).
I'm just going to leave this link here: What's new

Yes, but those are features, not benefits. It's a traditional marketing pitfall to present the customer with features but not explain the benefits of those features, which is what I'd need to understand better to make the purchase decision. I was just hoping maybe someone here who understands the product more can articulate those a bit further.

peter.s

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2014, 06:55:38 AM »
When the wise points to the moon, the moron just looks at his pointer. China.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 10:02:38 AM by peter.s »

wraith808

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2014, 08:21:41 AM »
That's the two PCs and a laptop deal. (The single licence is one PC and a laptop.) The upgrade price for "ordinary" customers on that deal is AUS$74. I paid AUS$71 for the previous version on 30th April 2011. So it works out at about AUS$8 per PC per year. My how extortionate!

I think we've gotten away from that, so if we could, could I use 40's more articulate plea on that regard?  Try not to offend, nor be offended?  Snark has it's place... but I don't personally think here.  And this is from someone who agrees with you (and has all along)


Yes, but those are features, not benefits. It's a traditional marketing pitfall to present the customer with features but not explain the benefits of those features, which is what I'd need to understand better to make the purchase decision. I was just hoping maybe someone here who understands the product more can articulate those a bit further.

If I had windows 8, the killer benefit to me would be the SkyDrive support.  That's one of the slickest things about windows 8 from the short time I had my tablet.

Without that, there's a couple of other benefits that appeal to me (a semi-casual user):

File Display Toolbars
Streamlined Copy Progress Display - might make it so I don't have to use teracopy, I have to try it.
Breadcrumbs, Status Bar, and FAYT changes - these address some of my major complaints.  Especially the FAYT part, as I had to use wildcards before.
Folder Tree Changes - especially remembering the root branches.  Another major complaint of mine.
File and Folder Labels Improvements - Auto filters on folders?  That's just plain cool.

But I think that when you start to break it down not in terms of benefits instead of features, it's going to be a personal experience (and I think that is the best way to break it down), which is why I'm leaning towards jumping from 9 to 11... 10 didn't have anything that personally appealed to me, but 11 does.

Dirhael

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2014, 09:09:11 AM »
I purchased an upgrade license the day it was released (was very pleasantly surprised that those of us that tested the beta version got an additional discount :Thmbsup:), and I don't really see how the pricing is cause for concern, if you're like me and spend *many* hours a week using it. I suppose it depends on where in the world you live, but what I think of when considering the price of ~ $40 USD I paid for the upgrade is that...:

- Over here that's just north of the price of a 6-pack of beer, if purchased in a store.
- Any given night down at the pub with friends will cost me twice that amount, at least (just a pint of beer frequently cost >= $15 USD).
- Most new games released on consoles retail for (converted from NOK to USD) ~ $84-100 USD.
- New bluray movies usually retail for (converted from NOK to USD) $30 USD and up.

Yeah...considering how ridiculously many hours I've spent in DO I find the price perfectly acceptable.
Registered nurse by day, hobby programmer by night.

dr_andus

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2014, 12:24:17 PM »
Without that, there's a couple of other benefits that appeal to me (a semi-casual user):

File Display Toolbars
Streamlined Copy Progress Display - might make it so I don't have to use teracopy, I have to try it.
Breadcrumbs, Status Bar, and FAYT changes - these address some of my major complaints.  Especially the FAYT part, as I had to use wildcards before.
Folder Tree Changes - especially remembering the root branches.  Another major complaint of mine.
File and Folder Labels Improvements - Auto filters on folders?  That's just plain cool.

Thanks for breaking that down, that's was helpful for getting my head around the new features.

Josh

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2014, 12:38:31 PM »
I really don't feel that, in my case, the "three year payment" holds water. I purchased this product 10 months ago. I only received two update notifications from the program stating that an update was available. Now, less than a year later, I am being told I have to pay again to move to the current version, and oh by the way the cost is just above half of what I paid originally. 

And yes, I saw the comparison about MS office. The difference there is, I have received 7 licenses to Office (2007-2013) that have cost me LESS than a single license of DOpus. Just because "retail" is expensive, doesn't mean there aren't promotions and/or other ways to obtain office in a legitimate fashion.

That said, I am not trying to be negative. In my case, however, I feel a tad upset about being asked to pay for a product I just paid for 10 months ago. I DID NOT receive the number of updates being mentioned here. I purchased the product in a state where those updates had already occurred.

wraith808

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #58 on: March 06, 2014, 12:41:48 PM »
I really don't feel that, in my case, the "three year payment" holds water. I purchased this product 10 months ago. I only received two update notifications from the program stating that an update was available. Now, less than a year later, I am being told I have to pay again to move to the current version, and oh by the way the cost is just above half of what I paid originally. 

And yes, I saw the comparison about MS office. The difference there is, I have received 7 licenses to Office (2007-2013) that have cost me LESS than a single license of DOpus. Just because "retail" is expensive, doesn't mean there aren't promotions and/or other ways to obtain office in a legitimate fashion.

That said, I am not trying to be negative. In my case, however, I feel a tad upset about being asked to pay for a product I just paid for 10 months ago. I DID NOT receive the number of updates being mentioned here. I purchased the product in a state where those updates had already occurred.

I think that goes towards another discussion that I posted- the version vs. time-limited license.  In this case, a time limited (1 year of updates) would have been better for you.  I think that as a developer, in some cases, you just can't win.

Josh

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #59 on: March 06, 2014, 12:58:06 PM »
I really think that the key is flexibility. If I were to release an application, and a user contacted me in that situation, I would be willing to make exceptions on a case-by-case basis. That said, based on the email reply, I feel that my request would be met with deaf ears based on how they replied to the discount.

myarmor

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2014, 01:17:02 PM »
I really think that the key is flexibility. If I were to release an application, and a user contacted me in that situation, I would be willing to make exceptions on a case-by-case basis. That said, based on the email reply, I feel that my request would be met with deaf ears based on how they replied to the discount.
If you're close to a year in, I don't really see how they'd do that. It would probably apply to too many customers among other things.
If it were a 1-3 months since the purchase of the previous major version, then its far more common to have a free upgrade to the new version.

Btw, Just Great Software (PowerGrep, RegexBuddy, EditPad Pro etc) is one of the few I've seen that actually has one year of free major upgrades
after a product purchase. NB! I've purchased several of their products, but I'm not associated with them.

Josh

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2014, 01:30:42 PM »
Well, you don't have to make it a policy that is published. But if a user contacts you and inquires about it, I would be more in the mindset of "keep them happy" and provide the upgrade only upon request if you are < 1 year in.

wraith808

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2014, 02:05:53 PM »
Well, you don't have to make it a policy that is published. But if a user contacts you and inquires about it, I would be more in the mindset of "keep them happy" and provide the upgrade only upon request if you are < 1 year in.

Yeah... I agree it would be nice. But it's up to the developer.  But on the other hand, not to do it because you don't think it would be met with a good reply and not let them know about it...? 

I'd do it anyway, personally.

peter.s

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2014, 03:11:31 PM »
"I purchased the product in a state where those updates had already occurred."

I explained this above, with the blatant example of FPV, and which has withheld me from bying for YEARS now, because at any given moment within those YEARS, I had thought the next major upgrade is imminent (1.95 > 2.0).

I'm critical vàv DO, but their update scheme is known, and quite stable, so whenever you buy (it was on bits, half-price, no? since that would have been the moment it appeared there...!) 2 years after a major release, you KNOW the next major release will not take ages, don't you? (And their bit offering, then, is for squeezing out some more drops, out of the soon-previous version.) So you know, or you should know, what you're doing, by buying at such an untimely moment.

And finally, "Would be nice" - har, har, har: Anybody knows that DO stuff does good stuff (compared...), but that they never have been "nice" in their life, and they never will be: Worldwide, I only know of TWO fora where mentioning "competitors' " product will get you heavily reprimanded, censored, then thrown out, theirs, and then that of the German text expanding sw producer I will not name here, in order to not deviate the discussion unlawfully by getting him in to stante pede intervene.

So, in this context, expecting them to give sw away for free (= from their pov), is naïve/aberrant (since we know them, i.e. whatever you could say, you cannot say they do clearly state their stance on subjects regarding them).

Most people are like us, and would like to "make their customers happy" - not so with some, blatantly "I'm a hard businessman" types out there, but again, their stance is to be respected whenever they state it clearly, from start on, and that's what they do: Even by installing their trials, you'll quickly realize how "business-like" (vs. "customer-centred") they are, with their incredible "security" routines even for your daring to use the trial. So before buying (except in a bits case, without trialling), you'll perfectly know, from them, how they will treat you as a customer: blatantly authority-like, no kindness whatsoever to be expected.

This is to be respected, then, since it doesn't come as a surprise. Sorry to be blant here, but their "business model" is known, because they display it in the open. As far as I'm concerned, I prefer to not being treated like I would be on the police station, as a suspect, but then, there are people out there who LOVE to be treated that way. But don't enter a police station, convincing yourself you're entering a theme park: THEN, indeed, you might be in for some surprise.
When the wise points to the moon, the moron just looks at his pointer. China.

Ath

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2014, 04:27:42 PM »
"I purchased the product in a state where those updates had already occurred."
Peter, please use the standard quote mechanism of the forum, your use of actual quotes around the quote makes it nearly unrecognizable as a quote :o

Jibz

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2014, 03:13:09 AM »
I am going to try to summarize the licenses and pricing of DO and a few of the competitors to get a little perspective (all prices are in USD, corrections welcome):

ProductInitial PriceUpgrade PriceLifetime OptionLicense Covers
Directory Opus$80$45 /~3yN/A1 PC + 1 laptop
Total Commander$44N/ANo promises, but free upgrades since v1.0Any number of computers used by one person at a time
xplorer2 (ultimate)$50$33 /1y$70 addon purchaceSingle user on many computers or many users on a single PC
XYplorer$30$24 /1y$80 initial priceAll computers you use

We can see that the initial purchase of DO is roughly twice as much as the others.

If you buy all upgrades, then the three year upgrade window on DO makes it cheaper in the long run than normal licenses of xplorer2 and XYplorer.

If you buy the lifetime licenses for xplorer2 and XYplorer, then they will become cheaper than DO after the first three years.

As long as Total Commander continues to not charge for upgrades, it will be the cheapest all around.

Another interesting point is the licensing. DO is the only one that limits the number of computers you can use the software on.

If you have to buy DO for three or more computers, then it will be more expensive than a normal license of xplorer2 or XYplorer with upgrades every year.

So, in summary, lifetime licenses are great (as long as the developers honour them). Directory Opus is expensive, but if you are the type of person who buys all upgrades right away, then the larger upgrade window makes it cheaper over time. If you have more than three computers, or if you only buy upgrades when there is something new you actually want, then you will have to do your own math :P.

Edit March 7th: Updated DO upgrade pricing.
Edit May 1st: XYplorer changed it's upgrade policy to include upgrades for 1 year instead of one major version number.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 04:23:21 AM by Jibz »

cyberdiva

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2014, 09:06:02 AM »
An interesting comparison, but are all these prices in the same currency?  I know that DOpus's prices are in Australian dollars, but I don't know about the others.  For an accurate comparison, they should all be in (or converted to) the same currency.

wraith808

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2014, 09:52:49 AM »
An interesting comparison, but are all these prices in the same currency?  I know that DOpus's prices are in Australian dollars, but I don't know about the others.  For an accurate comparison, they should all be in (or converted to) the same currency.

Agreed.  And I really don't think you can compare one SW package to another solely on pricing- the benefit for you really weighs into the decision to buy at any price for a lot of people.

Jibz

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2014, 10:30:52 AM »
An interesting comparison, but are all these prices in the same currency?  I know that DOpus's prices are in Australian dollars, but I don't know about the others.  For an accurate comparison, they should all be in (or converted to) the same currency.

I converted the price for DO from Australian dollar to US, so all the prices listed in the table are in US dollars.

Agreed.  And I really don't think you can compare one SW package to another solely on pricing- the benefit for you really weighs into the decision to buy at any price for a lot of people.

Of course, but much of the discussion in this thread has been about how expensive DO is, so I think it was worth trying to look at how it compared.

Also, if you can't compare a file manager to other file managers, what is the point then?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 11:13:19 AM by Jibz »

cyberdiva

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2014, 11:46:20 AM »
An interesting comparison, but are all these prices in the same currency?  I know that DOpus's prices are in Australian dollars, but I don't know about the others.  For an accurate comparison, they should all be in (or converted to) the same currency.

I converted the price for DO from Australian dollar to US, so all the prices listed in the table are in US dollars.
I was looking at the Upgrade price, since I upgraded a day or so ago, and the upgrade price ($50 AUD) converted to ~$44 USD.  I just looked again today, and apparently it's now up to ~45 USD, but that's still not $48 USD.

Jibz

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2014, 11:59:27 AM »
I was looking at the Upgrade price, since I upgraded a day or so ago, and the upgrade price ($50 AUD) converted to ~$44 USD.  I just looked again today, and apparently it's now up to ~45 USD, but that's still not $48 USD.

I haven't updated my DO since version 9, so I took the information in this thread, that the upgrade price was 40% off. 89 AUD * 0.6 = 53.4, which converted to USD is $48.4. But if you say the upgrade price is $50 AUD, I'll hapilly update the table (it doesn't change any of the conclusions). Thanks :Thmbsup:.

wraith808

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2014, 12:23:03 PM »
Also, if you can't compare a file manager to other file managers, what is the point then?

You *can* compare a file manager to other file managers.  It's just that comparing them *only* based on price is faulty reasoning, IMO.  If I compare a Fiat to a Lamborghini based only on price, the Fiat is going to win all the time.  Not saying that the difference between the software is that extreme- just stating that for an analogy.

TucknDar

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2014, 04:24:16 PM »
Comparing their price isn't faulty reasoning. Jibz didn't, as far as I can tell, state that the price was the only difference. His post was a followup to the price discussion and just brought into the frame some comparison between the differing licenses and prices. It seemed clear enough to me that the post was only concerned with the price and license difference between some well known file managers. An interesting post as well... to me, anyway ;)

cyberdiva

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2014, 04:44:00 PM »
I haven't updated my DO since version 9, so I took the information in this thread, that the upgrade price was 40% off. 89 AUD * 0.6 = 53.4, which converted to USD is $48.4. But if you say the upgrade price is $50 AUD, I'll hapilly update the table (it doesn't change any of the conclusions). Thanks :Thmbsup:.
Hi, Jibz.  Yes, I can confirm that I bought the upgrade for $50 AUD.

xtabber

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Re: Directory Opus 11 Released!
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2014, 06:30:21 PM »
Another interesting point is the licensing. DO is the only one that limits the number of computers you can use the software on.

As a matter of principle, I decided some years ago that I would avoid software that places arbitrary restrictions on how I can use it on my own computer(s).  In some cases, I have purchased "family" licenses for some programs that I need on multiple systems, but unless there really is no other reasonable choice, I will always take software that offers per-user licensing over those that license per computer.