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Last post Author Topic: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com  (Read 10873 times)

40hz

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2013, 05:49:53 PM »

The only real issue with GMail is privacy but then ANY email service is hosted by a provider somewhere (even if you pay for your own server at a data centre) so as far as I can see GMail are
so for email services, which of the big three would you use?  for some reason, MS still has a better reputation for privacy than google, but why?

Probably because Microsoft is more embedded in NSA monitoring activities and has admitted far less than others?  Such are the rewards for those who never confess to doing wrong nor ask for forgiveness if caught out.

Remember: "It's not only the cream that rises to the top."
 :huh:

Stoic Joker

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2013, 06:57:46 PM »
Remember: "It's not only the cream that rises to the top."

Are you trying not to say shit floats?

I think any provider is going to cave in when they get hit with one of those famous NSA dragnet warrants. And SMTP is (horribly) exposed when it crosses the web ... So ultimately the security bit becomes an academic discussion about the best type of screen door to use on a submarine. It's a "people issue" as you've mentioned many times before.

I just go with the provider that is the least likely to piss me of while trying to do day-to-day administration and usage.

app103

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2013, 07:05:33 PM »
Remember: "It's not only the cream that rises to the top."

Are you trying not to say shit floats?

220px-Stimpy[1].jpg

Uh...pork fat, Ren! Pork fat floats on beans!

40hz

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2013, 07:27:55 PM »
Remember: "It's not only the cream that rises to the top."

Are you trying not to say shit floats?

No. I'm saying it's not only the cream that rises to the top. :P ;D

wraith808

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2013, 07:50:34 PM »
so for email services, which of the big three would you use?

...not yahoo, I'll tell you that.

wraith808

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2013, 07:54:27 PM »
Remember: "It's not only the cream that rises to the top."

Are you trying not to say shit floats?
(see attachment in previous post)
Uh...pork fat, Ren! Pork fat floats on beans!

Pinky-and-the-Brain-1041428.jpg

Vurbal

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2013, 08:30:45 PM »
Just a couple points...

1. It's true SMTP's messaging is insecure but that's why it's now standard to use TSL/SSL to secure the communication. You should avoid any email provider which doesn't have strict (required) TSL/SSL implemented. I know Gmail does and AFAIK so do Outlook.com and Yahoo Mail.

2. SMTP represents a relatively small attack surface. Intercepting outgoing messages during transmission is the least efficient way to read your email unless you are being targeted specifically and individually. Actually even if you are personally targeted it's far more likely the attack will be in the form of malware which intercepts the message at the application layer or some other strategy which operates on the psychological (ie user) layer.

3. You should assume all your incoming email, and potentially also outgoing, is scanned by any and all public email services. How they scan it and what they scan for will vary but at the very least there will be a virus scan so you can guarantee they're accessing every message and every attachment individually.

4. If you're in the US you should assume any email stored for more than 6 months is available to any and all government agencies without a warrant. That is the standard interpretation of the ECPA (Electronic Communications Privacy Act) based on judicial precedents established when public email servers were pretty much useless for long term storage. One appeals court (don't remember which district) has a slightly different precedent. They ruled that if those emails (older than 6 months) were copies of messages you also downloaded and stored on your computer they were considered backups and subject to standard Fourth Amendment protection.

5. Anything sensitive you store on a third party server should not be considered secure unless you have taken measures to independently encrypt it. In other words don't rely on the same third party (including software they've provided) to both store and encrypt your data. That represents a single point of failure and avoiding those is a basic tenet of good security.

This last point is the most important IMO - although probably the least relevant to the original discussion. But since it's probably one of the most common mistakes people make I'm going to climb on my soapbox anyway. When in doubt the question should never be whether you're paranoid. It should be whether you're paranoid enough.
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Carol Haynes

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2013, 07:15:28 AM »
Afraid I filter everything through Google - I get a lot of mail (most of which I don't get round to reading) and GMail's spam filter is one of the best. (Athough recently I have noticed an increase in false positives). I filter out adverts so I am not bothered by the nonsense served up - but I don't really care if an automated system wants to scan my email to target me for specific ads - at the end of the day those ads are filtered out anyway. By definition any service reads your email in one way or another - even if they don't make use of the info - if only to provide spam filtering, so nothing is really private.

Don't really care that much about privacy too much - most email is not that private anyway - but at least Google are up front. I don't trust MS or Yahoo to tell you the truth until they are likely to get caught. And Yahoo just sucks as a service - ironic since it is now MS too! I have been waiting from Yahoo to disappear into Bing and Outlook.com ... seems MS want to give the illusion of choice.

Ironically most of my email is actually filtered through my own server but I find GMail a handy place to do it all. I do daily backups offline.

Re. SSL/TLS - isn't it all an illusion anyway - it is secure to and from the provider (and only possibly at the other person's end) but in the middle there isn't any secure layer? Or am I missing something?

Vurbal

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2013, 04:26:17 PM »
Afraid I filter everything through Google - I get a lot of mail (most of which I don't get round to reading) and GMail's spam filter is one of the best. (Athough recently I have noticed an increase in false positives). I filter out adverts so I am not bothered by the nonsense served up - but I don't really care if an automated system wants to scan my email to target me for specific ads - at the end of the day those ads are filtered out anyway. By definition any service reads your email in one way or another - even if they don't make use of the info - if only to provide spam filtering, so nothing is really private.

Don't really care that much about privacy too much - most email is not that private anyway - but at least Google are up front. I don't trust MS or Yahoo to tell you the truth until they are likely to get caught. And Yahoo just sucks as a service - ironic since it is now MS too! I have been waiting from Yahoo to disappear into Bing and Outlook.com ... seems MS want to give the illusion of choice.

Ironically most of my email is actually filtered through my own server but I find GMail a handy place to do it all. I do daily backups offline.

That's pretty much my take on it as well. My primary email account is through Gmail for more or less the same reasons you mention plus the use of 2 factor authentication.

Quote
Re. SSL/TLS - isn't it all an illusion anyway - it is secure to and from the provider (and only possibly at the other person's end) but in the middle there isn't any secure layer? Or am I missing something?

I wouldn't say it's an illusion but it's definitely an incomplete solution. There's no way to guarantee intermediate security between email servers or between the recipient's server and client. At best you may be able to count on some measure of security between servers on your provider's internal network. As I mentioned previously it's public knowledge that Google (finally) uses encryption for those connections and Microsoft did their usual song and dance about it before eventually announcing they will be implementing something in the future.

And of course none of that prevents a government from ordering an email provider from simply handing over whatever information they want.
I learned to say the pledge of allegiance
Before they beat me bloody down at the station
They haven't got a word out of me since
I got a billion years probation
- The MC5

Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of ''crackpot'' than the stigma of conformity.
- Thomas J. Watson, Sr

It's not rocket surgery.
- Me


I recommend reading through my Bio before responding to any of my posts. It could save both of us a lot of time and frustration.

40hz

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2013, 04:49:52 PM »
^Or (in the USA) for a judge to order you to decrypt an email, disk drive, or file. 

You can be jailed for "contempt of court" far more easily than you can for committing a real criminal offense.
 :-\

Carol Haynes

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2013, 03:50:47 AM »
Pretty much the same in the UK - in fact AIUI encrypted email (that can't be read by your email provider) is illegal in the UK.

So if, for example, you always write your emails as text documents, encrypt them and send them as attachments to someone you have shared a decryption method with you are breaking the law in the UK.

Ironically the same rules do not apply to Royal Snail Mail.

40hz

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2013, 06:10:16 AM »
imageds.jpg
Ironically the same rules do not apply to Royal Snail Mail.



Clever on their part. Same goes here. Our government has been indulging in flights of legal fancy to establish a fundamental and wholly arbitrary distinction between things done in "real space" and things done in the digital world. Except where laws are concerned. In that case "If it's illegal here - it's illegal online too."

Who says it has to make sense - or for swords to cut both ways.

daddydave

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2014, 10:55:27 AM »
...I didn't appreciate how complicated it was to migrate a Gmail account to another Gmail account until I had to change my email address ...
I'm curious - why did you "have to" change your email address?    :tellme:
(I don't see why one would ever have to abandon an email address, unless it wasn't your personal one in the first place - e.g., under a corporate email domain name.)


Because my old email address was sending out spam, even though I could log into the account fine.

And yes, I realize the From: header is easily forged, but I wanted people to blacklist the old email address.

Sorry for the late response!
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wraith808

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2014, 12:08:15 PM »
It was likely that your address was not... it was just someone spoofing your e-mail address.

If you could log into the account, and changed the password, then that's the likely culprit.  And changing your address wouldn't really do anything about that...

daddydave

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2014, 01:42:22 PM »
wraith, I knew it was spoofing and that I can't prevent that but I'd been able to get people to blacklist my old address, at least those people wouldn't be seeing that particular spam anymore. Unless the spammer followed me to the new email address, which didn't seem to happen.
If bad things happen to other people, it's karma. If bad things happen to me, it's kismat!

IainB

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Re: Migrating from Google Gmail.com to Microsoft Outlook.com
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2014, 11:46:55 PM »
wraith, I knew it was spoofing and that I can't prevent that but I'd been able to get people to blacklist my old address, at least those people wouldn't be seeing that particular spam anymore. Unless the spammer followed me to the new email address, which didn't seem to happen.
______________________
From what you wrote, rather than spoofing, it rather sounds as though someone has hacked your email account (i.e., figured out what your password is) and is logging into it and then sending actual email from it, to people in your email contacts list. That is, they are not sending  out email from another account and merely spoofing your email address - the email probably really is (or could be) coming from your email account.

The simplest thing to do, once you realise that this could be happening (and the sign is that spam is going out to your email contacts, addressed from your email account), is to logon to your email account and change the password to something more complex, then logoff, and then test it by logging back in with the new/changed password.

If your email account is in Gmail, then this could be a useful tip:
Following the recent hacking and publishing of Gawker Media customers' (commenters') email IDs and passwords (yes, passwords - how dumb can that be?), I had been checking my Gmail account security - and I had a surprise when I did it (for details, read on).

SUGGEST YOU DO THIS WEEKLY: (if you do not already do it.)
Start up Gmail in your browser.
Near the bottom of the main Gmail page, it says something like:
Last account activity: 57 minutes ago on this computer.  Details

When you click on "Details", you get taken to a page "Activity on this account". A table gives details of the 10 latest accesses, the 1st being your current session..
If you have any open sessions (e.g., if you left sessions open from another PC connected to the account, or if someone has open sessions from unauthorised access to your account), there will be a button that says to close them. Click on that button. The button will go away and you will get something like:
"This account does not seem to be open in any other location."

Now only you are looking at the account.
Quote
EDIT 2010-12-29 1112hrs: You have momentarily shut out any other users accessing your account. The objective is to move quickly and prevent any other account users doing anything before signing in again, by which time they will not be able to sign in, because by then you should have changed the account password and security question.
Scan the table for any Browser or POP3 accesses from IP addresses that were not yours from some other location or device.
Take a screen shot of it before doing anything further, because anything you do may scroll the oldest accesses off the table.

You can check the IP addresses here: http://projecthoneypot.org/search_ip.php
It will tell you which country it is in, and whether anything suspect has been reported for that IP address recently (i.e., it is still a "bad" IP address"). If they have the IP address, but no recent reports, then it means that they have had reports in the past, but it's probably OK now.

In any event, if there are any IP addresses that were not yours (either for browser or POP3 access), then:

    * change your password immediately (make it a "strong" one);
    * change the security question;
    * SAVE all changes;
    * whilst you are at it, get a second email address in the event you need to restore access to your account, having been locked out from it.
    * whilst you are at it, set up the SMS alert.

I did all this, because, to my great surprise I had POP3 (reading current inbox messages) accesses from some US-based IP addresses. I have no idea what they were up to, but they can't do any more POP3 accesses now.
Quote
EDIT 2010-12-29 1112hrs: Because my IP address is in New Zealand, a U.S. access was categorically something unwanted or potentially malign.

Hope this is useful/helpful to someone.
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