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Author Topic: Dumbing-down of the educational system?  (Read 4831 times)
IainB
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« on: October 14, 2012, 07:43:40 PM »

In a post here: Re: Thermageddon? Postponed! @Renegade referred to the dumbing-down process in the US (education system). I read the links/references he provided with interest.

Coincidentally, I was reminded of this when I read this comment on the Cartesian Product blog about the Maths "A" level papers in the UK, where a comparison is made between "A" level papers from 1982 and modern-day:

"A" ("Advanced") level exams in the UK used to be amongst the hardest exams a student might face until his/her 2nd or 3rd year at university. Not any more, it seems.
Presumably science (chemistry, physics, biology) and liberal studies are all getting the same sort of treatment. This could probably help to explain a lot.

CORRECTION: 2012-10-17
CORRECTION:
Oops. More haste less speed required on my part. Looks like my speed-reading might have crashed into a full stop and killed Comprehension in the process. Sorry.
In the post linked above (see Opening Post), the author doesn't state that he has proven that dumbing down has occurred, but that he has "dumbed down". I missed that bit - all I saw was the headline that he had provided "a proof".
He has corrected me in his blog: The great dumbing down debate
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 11:14:31 PM by IainB » Logged
Renegade
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2012, 11:09:13 PM »

I recently found an excellent set of interviews:

https://theultimatehistorylesson.com/

http://www.youtube.com/pl...t?list=PL463AA90FD04EC7A2

They are more of these videos where they put them out for free, and ask people to buy DVDs to help support the producers, etc. etc. Lots like that out there.

The guy there walks through a phenomenal amount of history on issues related to education. It's quite long, but a very eye-opening treatment.

Now, for the part that will blow you away...

Everything is referenced. Everything. You can download transcripts along with indepth footnotes/endnotes on the topics and references in the interview.

These guys did their homework~! cheesy


Probably the most important thing that I can say about the interviews, is that I need to go back and watch again. They're simply too packed with information, and not something that you can absorb all of very quickly. Definitely a 10 lb steak meal there. None of that nancy-pansy 12 oz salad nonsense~! cheesy We're talking MEAT~! cheesy Get your intellectual carnivore hat on~! cheesy
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2012, 11:10:25 PM »

Coincidentally, I was reminded of this when I read this comment on the Cartesian Product blog about the Maths "A" level papers in the UK, where a comparison is made between "A" level papers from 1982 and modern-day:

"A" ("Advanced") level exams in the UK used to be amongst the hardest exams a student might face until his/her 2nd or 3rd year at university. Not any more, it seems.
Presumably science (chemistry, physics, biology) and liberal studies are all getting the same sort of treatment. This could probably help to explain a lot.

Errmmm... yeah... humbling... I've not done that kind of math in quite a while, and really need to brush up...

Good to be humiliated every now and then. cheesy
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2012, 11:57:00 PM »

I can't understand all that stuff. There's so many words !
(Joke!)
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2012, 12:15:05 AM »


When looking into this a bit, came across:

  What You've Been Missing

A special episode of that may be?



There's a youtube link on that page to the first episode which resulted in something about the video not being available due to copyright reasons... Sad

Ironically, when searching for an alternative, came across:

  GNU MediaGoblin

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Renegade
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2012, 12:15:51 AM »

I can't understand all that stuff. There's so many words !
(Joke!)

It's not the words that are a problem for me... It's the letters~! Grin

(Need to brush up on so much math... forgotten far too much...)
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2012, 12:20:10 AM »


When looking into this a bit, came across:

  What You've Been Missing

A special episode of that may be?


Ah yes... I think I've seen that film before. If it's what I'm thinking, it has clips (like so many other documentaries) used for educational/commentary purposes, which while it doesn't violate copyright law, violates the feelings of the MAFIAA, and so...

I'll need to check on that MediaGoblin. Don't think I've seen it before.
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2012, 12:22:32 AM »

Oh - Check here:

http://www.youtube.com/pl...t?list=PLB14C115443F2A882

Looks like part 7/10 is missing, but the rest seem to be there.
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2012, 01:38:54 AM »

I just came across this:

http://www.edu-lu-tion.com/

Quote
In my 10+ years of teaching, "school sucks"  is perhaps the most common phrase I've heard students use to describe their feelings about public education. But this seemingly bitter and reductive slogan is actually quite clever. When taken literally, "school sucks"  is perhaps the most accurate and astute synopsis of the system I've ever heard. Here's why...

 
1. The twelve-year process of an American public education has a dramatic effect on the mind of a child. When we first enter school at age six, many of our best personal attributes are already in place. We are curious, innovative, unique, creative and hopeful in ways that we will rarely be able to replicate throughout the rest of our lives. But over time, school sucks those essential attributes out of too many of us...and replaces them with predictability, obedience and apathy.   
 
2. The public school system sucks off the productive capacity of hard-working people. The system is funded through taxation.  In other words, whether public education succeeds or fails (spoiler alert: it fails) at providing real education to the public, the cost goes up every year. There are no refunds.

They have a poster there, that I think you'll really enjoy, Iain:



I did anyways. smiley
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ewemoa
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2012, 04:36:41 AM »

Oh - Check here:

http://www.youtube.com/pl...t?list=PLB14C115443F2A882

Looks like part 7/10 is missing, but the rest seem to be there.

Thanks!

I think I found the whole thing as a single piece -- a couple of options:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43-Zr2tbX9Y
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ77AJUENCQ
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Renegade
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2012, 05:03:43 AM »

Thanks!

I think I found the whole thing as a single piece -- a couple of options:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43-Zr2tbX9Y
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ77AJUENCQ


Even better! The first link has 720p HD~! (Downloading it now.)

And yes - it's the one I was thinking of before. Quite good. It's one of those that is worth watching again.
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app103
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2012, 09:46:03 AM »

I think my father summed it up best when he stated, "The primary purpose of the public school system is to teach students to sit down, shut up, and do what they are told."

And the big threat to those that refuse to learn this lesson is a career where they get to stand up and talk all day (would you like fries with that?)

This is all in preparation for their future, where no matter which direction they go (sitting or standing) they will be expected to allow themselves to be exploited for profit, by working for someone else.

In other words, schools are factories that produce obedient drones. The rejects are still, for the most part, just drones.

Most people do not have the luxury of being able to afford to send their kids to a school that has a goal of producing anything other than obedient drones. It is very expensive to send your child to a school where they learn how to be the drone controller, the one that exploits the drones for profit.

Take a look at the wealthiest people in the US, the ones that own the big companies, the ones that are founding the companies that will be big in the future. How many of them went to an ordinary public school? How many of them went to one of the less expensive public colleges and universities? Why do the rest of us aspire to become smart enough to be accepted to one of those expensive colleges and universities? Why do we hope for scholarships to be able to pay for it? Because it's the difference between being a drone for the rest of your life and having much better.

The dumbing down reflects the need to have your drones only know enough to do their drone jobs well, and not enough to rise above their status as a drone. Drones do not need to know how to think...just need to know how to do, do what they are told, do what the drone controllers want.

It's the drone controllers that must know how to think. By knowing how to think, and especially knowing how to manipulate how drones think, they can stay in control of the drones.

Politicians usually have law degrees. Law is an area primarily based on being able to manipulate a jury of drones into thinking a certain way, to get the results you want. A pretty good skill to have to get yourself elected by the masses of drones that you will be controlling, for the benefit of the other controllers. They rarely ever have law degrees from the same schools as the lawyers that advertise themselves on TV. No, they go to much better schools, where controlling drones is raised to a very high art form, comparable to the works of Leonardo Da Vinci; with the TV lawyers pretty much at the level of coloring book scribbles.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 12:14:40 PM by app103 » Logged

IainB
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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2012, 08:24:03 PM »

I just came across this:
http://www.edu-lu-tion.com/
...They have a poster there, that I think you'll really enjoy, Iain:
 (see attachment in previous post)
I did anyways. smiley
Yes, thanks. It's quite a good poster!    Thmbsup
Back in April 2012 I had found that website and copied the posters as a teaching aid:



My favourites to watch out for are:
  • argumentum ad hominem (argument against the person)
  • argumentum ad baculum (appeal to fear).
  • argumentum ad ignorantiam (forwarding a proposition without any certain proof).
  • argumentum ad misericordiam (appeal to pity; to arouse pity for getting one's conclusion accepted).
  • argumentum ad populum (appeal to the people/consensus, popular sentiment - appeal to the majority; appeal to loyalty).
  • argumentum ad verecundiam (appeal to authority; conventional propriety).
  • ignoratio elenchi (a "red herring" or genetic fallacy) -  assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim discredits the claim itself.
  • non sequitur ("it does not follow"; orrelevant conclusion: diverts attention away from a fact in dispute rather than addressing it directly:
    Example:
                Argument: Billy believes that pigs can fly, therefore pigs can fly.
                Problem: Billy can be wrong. (In particular this is an appeal to authority.)

The record for me is when I once spotted someone to have made 6 (six!) logical fallacies in one go. At another time, I pointed out that someone had used a logical fallacy or two (and which), and was answered with "That is your opinon" (OWTTE). Go figure.
You probably don't need to dumb anyone down for them to demonstrate this really - just denying them a decent education could likely do it. Just don't train them to develop thinking skills (De Bono) and in particular critical thinking. CT was/is now an "O" Level in UK schools - not sure whether it is compulsory/optional. Apparently it developed "transferable skills" that enabled students to improve their performance in most other subjects studied. What a surprise (NOT).
Students ignorant of or without CT skills will probably be forever mentally crippled. It's avoidable. Why would you do that to children? I have met people - and some of them seemingly quite intelligent - who have come out of the education system apparently without the discipline/capability to be able think logically/rationally. Easily manipulated. Gullible. Unthinking, "obedient drones", as @app103 so depressingly puts it.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 08:37:42 PM by IainB; Reason: Minor corrections. » Logged
IainB
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2012, 05:14:15 PM »

In The Hindu there is an interesting and well-written article (copied below) which probably provides a very good example of the sort of loopy thinking that can go on and may even be acceptable when a culture, for whatever reason, might prevent a sizeable proportion of its population from having access to a decent education and which is thus left lacking in training in the development of critical thinking skills.
To put it in context, this is in what is arguably a third-world country, a non-secular class-structured society, where universal suffrage is not necessarily a given, and where democratic freedoms may thus be seriously limited - so it is probably not something to be too surprised about.
The example shows that, in this context, not only can you find irrational proposals being seriously put forward by a former Chief Minister without apparent concern for being challenged/ridiculed, but also that those proposals may even be met with some mute acceptance and treated as being serious/valid, though they bear little relevance to the facts/truth. To that extent it seems to share similarities with the hypothesis of Anthropogenic Global Warming being foisted on the planet from those in the Western world, though it is on a completely different subject - effectively, the legitimisation of rape.

Interestingly, it seems that it is left up to a journalist to rationally analyse the proposals, and to spell out the idiocy therein. There may arguably be something there that journalists in the Western media (MSM) might be able to take a lesson from...    Wink

There are some interesting comments from readers, but remember that this readership population would probably generally be characterised as a select minority - i.e., literate middle-class people who can read/write in English and who have ready access to the Internet, the leisure time to read the article online in the first place and the leisure time to make a comment online in the second. One suspects that probably not many (if any) of them would be of (say) the Dalit (untouchable) caste, for example.
Quote
The rape of reason
October 15, 2012

It is not unusual to hear people talk of fighting fire with fire, but is it appropriate to recommend fighting crime with crime? Former Haryana Chief Minister Om Prakash Chautala apparently thinks it is. Endorsing the regressive views of some khap panchayat leaders in his State, Mr. Chautala suggested that the growing incidence of rape be addressed by relaxing the laws relating to child marriage (an offence under Prohibition of Child Marriage Act, 2006). This is a rape of reason, based on a dangerous and completely false idea that masks the distinction between sexual desire and rape. While the first is a natural human desire, the second is a violent act borne principally out of an aggressive urge to dominate the victim; power and humiliation are integral to this act of violence rather than sexual fulfilment. The belief that there will be a radical reduction in rape incidents if men and women were allowed to marry before they turn 18 is easily disproved by some basic facts about this and other forms of sexual assault. It is stupid to assume that only single men are perpetrators of this crime; married men are rapists as well. Similarly, married women are frequent victims of rape. Finally, the idea that rape will be dissolved by marriage ignores the fact that it can — and does — take place within marriages as well.

There has been a spate of rape incidents in Haryana recently — as many as 17 in a month — in which a number of victims have been Dalit women. Already under pressure, the Haryana government and the Congress party at the State and the Centre must also contend with the ridiculous statement of a State minister explaining away most rapes as the outcome of consensual sex. Apart from taking action against the minister for making light of a serious problem, Congress president Sonia Gandhi, who visited Haryana, ought to have led from the front in condemning the child marriage ‘remedy’ for rape. It is hugely ironic that this argument is raised in a country where child marriages frequently take place. Recently, four U.N. agencies estimated that more than 40 per cent of the world’s child marriages take place in India; also that in eight States of the country, over 50 per cent of young girls are married before they reach the age of 18. Mercifully, the Jat Mahapanchayat, which comprises khap panchayat leaders from across Haryana, has distanced itself from the demand of some members that the marriage age for girls be brought down to 16. Child marriages are a violation of fundamental rights and a major impediment to the empowerment of women and the establishment of gender equality.
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2012, 07:49:38 PM »

That's interesting, because what this shows as Math A was definately material from my Math B class in 2002 or so.

This dumbing down must have happened in the last 10 years.

Then again I was the student that got punished for doing college level engineering in 8th grade. And one of my designs from back then actually worked too, although it wasn't practical enough to have a marketable value.
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IainB
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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2012, 09:01:30 PM »

CORRECTION:
Oops. More haste less speed required on my part. Looks like my speed-reading might have crashed into a full stop and killed Comprehension in the process. Sorry.
In the post linked above (see Opening Post), the author doesn't state that he has proven that dumbing down has occurred, but that he has "dumbed down". I missed that bit - all I saw was the headline that he had provided "a proof".
He has corrected me in his blog: The great dumbing down debate
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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2012, 09:41:10 AM »

Well, I must warn you... You may just urinate in your shorts while you fall off your chair laughing.

Yes, we have another in that long line of people trying to prove that they are the craziest...

Ready? Might want to sit on a plastic bag for this one...

http://www.washingtonpost...an-as-part-of-ed-reforms/

Quote
How do you think this would go over in the United States? French President François Hollande has said he will end homework as part of a series of reforms to overhaul the country’s education system.

And the reason he wants to ban homework?

He doesn’t think it is fair that some kids get help from their parents at home while children who come from disadvantaged families don’t. It’s an issue that goes well beyond France, and has been part of the reason that some Americans oppose homework too.

 huh

Parents, don't try to get involved in your child's indoctrination education! Cause that's not fair!

Way to go France! Show everyone that you're in the race to be the world's top Idiocracy! tongue

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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2012, 10:49:47 AM »

Quote
How do you think this would go over in the United States? French President François Hollande has said he will end homework as part of a series of reforms to overhaul the country’s education system.

And the reason he wants to ban homework?

He doesn’t think it is fair that some kids get help from their parents at home while children who come from disadvantaged families don’t. It’s an issue that goes well beyond France, and has been part of the reason that some Americans oppose homework too.

 huh

Parents, don't try to get involved in your child's indoctrination education! Cause that's not fair!

Way to go France! Show everyone that you're in the race to be the world's top Idiocracy! tongue

Shades of Kurt Vonnegut's story Harrison Bergeron!!! tellme

Quote
It is the year 2081. Because of Amendments 211, 212, and 213 to the Constitution, every American is fully equal, meaning that no one is smarter, better-looking, stronger, or faster than anyone else. The Handicapper General and a team of agents ensure that the laws of equality are enforced. The government forces citizens to wear "handicaps" (a mask if they are too handsome or beautiful, earphones with deafening radio signals to make intelligent people unable to concentrate and form thoughts, and heavy weights to slow down those who are too strong or fast).

One April, fourteen-year-old Harrison Bergeron, a highly intelligent, handsome child, is taken away from his parents, George and Hazel, by the government. George and Hazel are not fully aware of the tragedy. Hazel’s lack of awareness is due to "average" intelligence, which in 2081, is the politically correct way of referring to someone of well-below-average intelligence. George does not comprehend the tragedy since the law requires him to wear the radio ear piece for twenty-four hours a day because he is of above-average intelligence. The government broadcasts noise over these radios to interrupt the thoughts of intelligent people like George.

Hazel and George are watching ballerinas dance on TV. Hazel has been crying, though she cannot remember why. She remarks on the beauty of the dance. For a few moments, George reflects on the dancers, who are weighed down to counteract their gracefulness and masked to cover up their good looks. They have been handicapped so that TV viewers will not feel bad about their own appearance and hence will feel equally as talented and good-looking. Because of their handicaps, the dancers are not very good...
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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2012, 12:32:46 PM »

My favourites to watch out for are:
  • argumentum ad hominem (argument against the person)
  • argumentum ad baculum (appeal to fear).
  • argumentum ad ignorantiam (forwarding a proposition without any certain proof).
  • argumentum ad misericordiam (appeal to pity; to arouse pity for getting one's conclusion accepted).
  • argumentum ad populum (appeal to the people/consensus, popular sentiment - appeal to the majority; appeal to loyalty).
  • argumentum ad verecundiam (appeal to authority; conventional propriety).
  • ignoratio elenchi (a "red herring" or genetic fallacy) -  assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim discredits the claim itself.
  • non sequitur ("it does not follow"; irrelevant conclusion: diverts attention away from a fact in dispute rather than addressing it directly:

The record for me is when I once spotted someone to have made 6 (six!) logical fallacies in one go. At another time, I pointed out that someone had used a logical fallacy or two (and which), and was answered with "That is your opinion" (OWTTE). Go figure.

(Satire)
Iain is an egg-head, and egg-heads control the Illuminati. They monitor your communications, and if they don't like something they will beat down your door and arrest you. Don't believe me? Look at the **AA monitoring of torrents! You know that they do. After all, the poor artists will starve if you copy stuff, right? Everybody knows that! So remember, that if you copy a song you're a blood-siphoning little mosquito feeding off the poor artists. But you know those pictures everyone reposts? No one cares as much about pictures, because songs are more important. So that's how Facebook came about - everyone likes sharing pictures. Mark Zuckerberg made a lot of money by sharing pictures.
(/Satire)

Did I break your record?  Grin
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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2012, 01:43:35 PM »

@IainB - did you ever think of maybe putting your critical thinking course up on a website? Or as a wiki? That would be a valuable resource IMHO. Thmbsup
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« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2012, 10:01:05 PM »

...Way to go France! Show everyone that you're in the race to be the world's top Idiocracy! tongue
Yes.
It is "The rape of Reason" indeed, but not in India.
And it is presumably evidence of "intelligence", but not necessarily as we know it.
However, I have ceased to be surprised at such craziness coming from Europe - especially from the French. Together with the Germans, they seem to have been carefully piloting the already-sinking ship of the EU onto the historical rocks of full-bore socialism/communism for some time now.

...Shades of Kurt Vonnegut's story Harrison Bergeron!!! ...
What a coincidence! That is exactly what this all made me think about too! Or maybe not such a coincidence. If you have read that story, then it is likely to spring to mind whenever you see officialdom committing some idiocy or other, so the memory is probably continually being refreshed over the course of each passing year...
Another related SF story could be The Marching Morons (1950s) by Frederick Pohl and C.M. Kornbluth.

@IainB - did you ever think of maybe putting your critical thinking course up on a website? Or as a wiki? That would be a valuable resource IMHO. Thmbsup
I could do, I suppose. Though I have seen some already good resources in that regard, one more mightn't hurt.

...Did I break your record?  Grin
Well yes, but your attempt was deliberate, so as an example it does not go into my record book. The ones that I spot - and which cause me so much amazement - are accidental, being spontaneous working examples of how apparently otherwise intelligent people actually fail to use reasoning on a day-to-day basis when presenting an argument for something. The one about a logical fallacy being a matter of "opinion" was in my record book for the simple reason that it was an amusing "own goal" - i.e., not only did the speaker use a logical fallacy in making a statement/argument, but they apparently did not comprehend what a logical fallacy was and therefore could not see that they had used one (or two) even when it was pointed out to them - thinking it was a matter of "opinion" (not of fact!), thus demonstrating that very likely they had never been given any training in (or had not learned) the skill of rational thinking or reasoning.
The article "The rape of Reason" discusses a superb and eponymous example.

As De Bono points out (cf. Teaching Thinking), we are irrational by nature, and thinking is a learned skill, just like riding a bike or typing. You get two-fingered typing, and you get two-fingered thinking. This is not referring to the person doing the typing/thinking here, but just the activity of typing/thinking.

If you can prevent people from thinking clearly - for example (say), by not teaching them thinking skills, or by keeping their attention diverted from thinking by means of a government-issue radio earpiece (iPod's anyone?) - then you potentially have them more under control.
You can thus give them lots of "education" or indoctrination - e.g., learning just the stuff you want them to learn for productive purposes, by rote - but without giving them the tools and encouraging them to develop their thinking skills you will have effectively stifled their potential to be able to think things through rationally and in rigorous fashion. Thus, you might be able to create @app103's "obedient drones". Whether these drones are smart (intelligent) is probably irrelevant to that status quo, as @app103 seems to suggest. You teach people what to think, not how to think. It's like a religio-political ideology.
Then you let them loose to work, pay taxes, consume, get driving licences and vote for a select few officials to "lead" them who keep repeating some mantra that sounds great but means nothing - e.g., (say) "Hope n'Change!".
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 10:04:02 PM by IainB; Reason: Minor corrections. » Logged
TaoPhoenix
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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2012, 11:38:30 PM »

...Did I break your record?  Grin
Well yes, but your attempt was deliberate, so as an example it does not go into my record book. The ones that I spot - and which cause me so much amazement - are accidental, being spontaneous working examples of how apparently otherwise intelligent people actually fail to use reasoning on a day-to-day basis when presenting an argument for something. The one about a logical fallacy being a matter of "opinion" was in my record book for the simple reason that it was an amusing "own goal" - i.e., not only did the speaker use a logical fallacy in making a statement/argument, but they apparently did not comprehend what a logical fallacy was and therefore could not see that they had used one (or two) even when it was pointed out to them - thinking it was a matter of "opinion" (not of fact!), thus demonstrating that very likely they had never been given any training in (or had not learned) the skill of rational thinking or reasoning.
... that sounds great but means nothing - e.g., (say) "Hope n'Change!".

Yes I did put a little work into it, but I wasn't far off. Those kind of ultra-left arguments come very close to my satirical example and regularly bust out 4+ fallacies at a time, and so with a little hinting you'd get a grand slam. That was what I was hoping to convey.

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IainB
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2012, 01:57:58 AM »

(Satire)
Iain is an egg-head, and egg-heads control the Illuminati. They monitor your communications, and if they don't like something they will beat down your door and arrest you. Don't believe me? Look at the **AA monitoring of torrents! You know that they do. After all, the poor artists will starve if you copy stuff, right? Everybody knows that! So remember, that if you copy a song you're a blood-siphoning little mosquito feeding off the poor artists. But you know those pictures everyone reposts? No one cares as much about pictures, because songs are more important. So that's how Facebook came about - everyone likes sharing pictures. Mark Zuckerberg made a lot of money by sharing pictures.
(/Satire)
Did I break your record?  Grin

...Yes I did put a little work into it, but I wasn't far off. Those kind of ultra-left arguments come very close to my satirical example and regularly bust out 4+ fallacies at a time, and so with a little hinting you'd get a grand slam. That was what I was hoping to convey.
Oh yes, absolutely. You most certainly did convey that. It was a superb string of irrationality which could probably be in line for a well-deserved Nobel Peace Prize - after the example set by the Gore/IPCC, Obama and EU awards of same, that is, being Society's apparently modern-day version of a satirical Kiss of Death.
Who knows but that the members of the Royal Society may even now be gathering for a meeting to determine whether to invite you to give them a lecture?

Stranger things have happened at sea!    Wink
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Renegade
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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2012, 02:09:11 AM »

...in line for a well-deserved Nobel Peace Prize - after the example set by the Gore/IPCC, Obama and EU awards of same, that is, being Society's apparently modern-day version of a satirical Kiss of Death.

Hahahaaha~!

Obama wins peace prize -> immediately proceeds to crank up the body count in apparent attempt to embarrass his predecessor's "lame" attempts at mass murder... "Kiss of Death" is quite appropriate there.

EU wins peace prize -> ??? Can we expect the same from it/them?

No need to read any Vonnegut, Huxley, Orwell, or other dystopian fiction authors. Just watch the 6 o'clock news. tongue More destruction at 11. tongue
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tomos
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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2012, 06:18:13 AM »

seen todays XKCD?

http://xkcd.com/1122/
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