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Author Topic: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx  (Read 5457 times)

Arizona Hot

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Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« on: September 15, 2012, 05:16:24 PM »
100th post.jpg

tomos

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2012, 05:25:43 PM »
no idea what it's about,
but that was just begging for a screenshot:
http://www.donationc....msg300074#msg300074
Tom

40hz

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2012, 09:21:41 PM »
"On the contrary, I think it may turn out that this rugged mountain range trails off at some point."

-------------------

@ArizonaHot
- Good gracious! Ithkuil? (And I thought I was a geek!) Are you that into languages? :tellme:

(BTW -  if you think I'm gonna spend two hours trying to work out a message written in friggin' Içtaîl script - you're dreaming!  :P )

 8)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 09:37:38 PM by 40hz »

Curt

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2012, 02:34:30 AM »
@ArizonaHot - Good gracious! (url=http://www.ithkuil.net/index.htm) Ithkuil

proper URL is without the triple w: http://ithkuil.net


40hz

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2012, 05:08:26 AM »
@ArizonaHot - Good gracious! (url=http://www.ithkuil.net/index.htm) Ithkuil

proper URL is without the triple w: http://ithkuil.net



Hi Curt! That's news to me.   :huh:

I always thought that was an SEO consideration for the site owner rather than a visitor issue.

It's true that, from a search engine perspective, there is a difference between xyz.com and www.xyz.com. But this isn't something that affects anything on the user level unless xyz.com is a subdomain - in which case the leading www would need to be omitted when browsing to it. However, last I heard, "best practice" was to use the www.xyz.com form as your canonical URL - unless you already had a Google ranking. And if you did, you needed to find out which format got more hits, and then redirect the other to the more popular one.

Since I only very rarely run into situations where the leading www has to be removed in order to get to a website, my rule of thumb is to include it. In the past, most site developers I've talked to said they use the "www + redirect" trick for SEO purposes. So from a visitor's perspective "to www or not to www" shouldn't matter either way.

But it's been a while since I was last involved in web stuff. Has the above convention since changed? :o

-----

Note: I always test the links in anything I post so at least I know they work even if they're not 'proper' URLS. Besides, most forum and e-mail software will assume a text string that starts with 'www.' is a URL and aromatically treat it as a link. So I think it's generally more convenient to keep the www in a posting unless it causes problems. :up:

wraith808

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2012, 05:25:58 AM »
^ Both go to the same place... from what I understand, you're correct in most cases.  It's possible to break with that convention, but I haven't seen it done in practice.

Curt

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2012, 06:48:51 AM »
of course I don't know anything about that subject. I just couldn't reach the www -page.

wraith808

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2012, 06:57:43 AM »
^ Not really sure why you couldn't... worked fine for me.  Perhaps its regional?  Or something was wrong at the time...

40hz

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2012, 07:44:53 AM »
^Maybe it's how the DNS is being resolved wherever you are? Works fine for me either way where I am in the US. If you temporarily switch your primary DNS server to OpenDNS (208.67.222.222 or 208.67.220.220) does it still fail with the www prefix?
 :huh:

Arizona Hot

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2012, 11:25:42 AM »
And here I was worried that nobody would know what it was. I chose that for my 100th post, because I thought it would be interesting to our multi-lingual members. My compliments to 40hz for knowing about it. I don't really know it, but I thought it would make a decorative post. The texts I used are from the site examples, I didn't make them myself(I don't know how you could do that).
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 11:30:56 AM by Arizona Hot »

40hz

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2012, 11:46:40 AM »
And here I was worried that nobody would know what it was.

Nobody?

Here?

This is DoCo! No matter what, that is so not gonna happen. (At least from my experience with this crowd.)  ;D

Note: I found out about Ithkuil some years back when I first got seriously interested in invented or artificial languages. (People into NLP tend to pay a lot of attention to how we use language and words. :mrgreen:) It was part of some background research I was doing for a piece of fiction in which the unusual native language some of the characters spoke became a key plot element in the story. Something Delany used to good effect in his brilliant sci-fi novel Babel-17, which inspired similar treatments of language in other novels.

Quote
The texts I used are from the site examples, I didn't make them myself(I don't know how you could do that).

Makes two of us. That is the single most convoluted writing system (and complex language) I've ever looked at. Very cool set of concepts. But I wonder just how workable it would be in a real-world setting.
8)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 01:10:44 PM by 40hz »

Arizona Hot

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2012, 05:06:32 PM »
My interest in conlangs is part of my interest in langauge(or at least in how we use language). I'm interested in the problems and alternative solutions of language use. What other conlang do you think is closest to Ithkuil in approach? I have a specific language in mind, the grammar is just as complicated but the spelling doesn't use accented characters or have the cool script Ithkuil does. All languages are complex, the nature of what is said requires it. Languages like Toki Pona which have a small vocabulary and simple grammar can't say easily what you can in English. My favorite language before Ithkuil was Lojban, but it has vocabulary and grammar problems Ith  doesn't. I didn't know DoCoers were so language-esoteric, could I interest them in some other subjects I have links to(below)? What fiction did you write, you intrigue me?

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« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 05:20:30 PM by Arizona Hot »

Arizona Hot

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2012, 05:44:11 PM »
From the Ithkuil Introduction:

Comparison to Other Constructed Languages
 
Those readers familiar with the history of artificial language construction might think this endeavor belated or unnecessary, in that logical languages such as James Cooke Brown’s renowned Loglan (or its popular derivative, Lojban) already exist. This serves to illustrate exactly what distinguishes Ithkuil from such previous attempts. Loglan was published in the 1950s as a spoken/written language based on symbolic logic (formally known as the first-order predicate calculus), an algorithmic system of symbol manipulation devised by mathematicians and logicians. As a result, one might think that such a language is the most capable means of achieving logical, unambiguous linguistic communication. However, Loglan and its derivatives are merely sophisticated tools for symbol manipulation, i.e., the levels of language known as morphology and syntax. It is not within the scope of such languages to address any reorganization of the semantic realm. This means that symbolic logic simply manipulates arguments which are input into the system, they do not analyze the origin of those arguments in terms of meaning, nor are they capable of analyzing or formalizing the structure of the cognitive or semantic realm of the human mind in terms of how meaning itself is assigned to arguments. (Indeed, Lojban derives its roots via statistical “sampling” of the most frequent roots in the six most spoken natural languages, a method virtually guaranteed to carry over into the Lojban lexicon all of the lexico-semantic inefficiencies previously described.) By not addressing these components of language, Loglan and similar efforts fail to address the inconsistencies and inefficiency inherent in language at the lexico-semantic level. Ithkuil has been designed to systematically address this issue.


Edvard

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2012, 12:54:39 AM »
Quote
Something Delany used to good effect in his brilliant sci-fi novel Babel-17, which inspired similar treatments of language in other novels.

The first time I really "got" the idea of artificial languages was the first time I read Watership Down.
Richard Adams' casual dropping of Lapine throughout the text struck me as little more than quaint until the climactic battle where Hazel confronts General Woundwort and utters the untranslated line "Silflay hraka u embleer rah!"
At that moment, I fell off my chair in absolute giddiness because it was not only appropriate for that moment in the story, but I suddenly realized I understood what it meant without being aware that I had learned the language.  Ah, THERE was a eureka moment if ever there was one.

Arizona Hot

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2012, 04:48:03 PM »
It was part of some background research I was doing for a piece of fiction in which the unusual native language some of the characters spoke became a key plot element in the story.

@40hz What was the name of the fiction?

40hz

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2012, 07:04:30 PM »
It was part of some background research I was doing for a piece of fiction in which the unusual native language some of the characters spoke became a key plot element in the story.

@40hz What was the name of the fiction?

The title is Fianna. It's my own. It's a work in progress. :)

What other conlang do you think is closest to Ithkuil in approach? I have a specific language in mind, the grammar is just as complicated but the spelling doesn't use accented characters or have the cool script Ithkuil does.

About the only 'real' language I'm noddingly familiar with that resembles some of Ithkuil is CycL - unless you're talking about Ilaksh. But I'm guessing from the above that you're much more knowledgeable about esoteric conlangs than I'll ever be - so I'd be happy to hear anything you'd care to teach us about them. :up:

« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 07:18:20 PM by 40hz »

tomos

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2012, 05:04:23 AM »
The title is Fianna.

(not of any importance but) I presume you're familiar with the Fianna
http://www.shee-eire...ies/Fianna/Page1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fianna
Tom

40hz

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2012, 06:29:13 AM »
^I am.  ;D

The story deals with the same. Only it's set about 3000 years into the future.


Arizona Hot

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2012, 10:16:25 PM »
About the only 'real' language I'm noddingly familiar with that resembles some of Ithkuil is CycL - unless you're talking about Ilaksh. But I'm guessing from the above that you're much more knowledgeable about esoteric conlangs than I'll ever be - so I'd be happy to hear anything you'd care to teach us about them.
The language I was talking about is Latejami by Rick Morneau. The creator of Ithkuil has high regard for his work. His language is the only conlang I know of close to being as sophisticated as Ithkuil.

Arizona Hot

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2012, 04:34:13 PM »
Is a long article in the New Yorker about Ithkuil a compliment or something else?

Ithkuil -new Yorker.jpg

mwb1100

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2012, 06:53:40 PM »
Quote
BY JOSHUA FOER

DECEMBER 24, 2012

Oh my,  I've gotta get my Xmas shopping done!

Arizona Hot

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2012, 07:35:06 PM »
Quote
BY JOSHUA FOER

DECEMBER 24, 2012

Oh my,  I've gotta get my Xmas shopping done!


Unlax, it's only the 17th unless you're in a time-slipw and will be going back to the 24th.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 07:45:20 PM by Arizona Hot »

4wd

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2012, 09:37:06 PM »
Quote
BY JOSHUA FOER

DECEMBER 24, 2012

Oh my,  I've gotta get my Xmas shopping done!


Just order everything after Xmas in the sales and then use:

IAS070-Tardis.jpg

mwb1100

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Re: Tram-mļöi  hhâsmařpţuktôx
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2012, 10:37:31 PM »
"Tardis Express" reminds me of the old Jiffy Express SNL commercial: http://www.nbc.com/s...ffy-express/1356732/

Jiffy Express
We'll take the package - and the blame.