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Author Topic: Help me Improve my Culinary Card Game for Kickstarter: Cooking Party Cards  (Read 10816 times)
mouser
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« on: September 01, 2012, 12:19:13 PM »

I'd like to request your help in improving my Culinary-themed card game that I would like to try funding on Kickstarter.

Cooking Party Cards



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Here's where the game currently stands:
  • I have a draft of the basic rulebook.
  • I have a complete set of about 150 draft prototype cards.
  • I have playtested the game with a few friend and family, and it's gone over great -- my 8yr old niece who likes cooking shows loved it.

And here's what I know I need help with:
  • Coming up with a better name.
  • Adding additional variants of gameplay.
  • Adding a main gameplay mode that does not depend on subjective culinary judgement.  That is, I want to add an alternative, more traditional card game that can be played with the cards, for people who may not love the idea of a subjective social party game. Adding small amount of extra indicators on cards to facilitate this is possible (numbers, etc.)
  • Coming up with kickstarter goals, "perks" etc.
  • Finding an enthusiastic partner who likes the game and wants to handle the kickstarter parts like making a high quality kickstarter video, etc. and handling all of the work involved in the kickstarter and "markering" aspects.
  • Playtesting.
  • Writing an ingredient guide and glossary (basically some info+trivia about each ingredient and general culinary tips).
  • Funding it if/when it gets to kickstarter!
  • Inventing new Assignment Cards
  • Creating expansion packs (like a Thai food pack of cards, a pack of cards for making mixed drinks, a spice/fish/cheese specialty pack, etc.)

I would really love some help from the gang here.. It's a simple game idea, nothing ground breaking, but I still think it's a fun idea and I'd love your help in exploring the possibility of using kickstarter for a fun little project.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 03:12:23 PM by mouser; Reason: update photo » Logged
mouser
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2012, 05:32:44 PM »

Updated with change to rulebook -- I've added something called "Chef Assignment Cards", which basically give Judge players a deck of suggested assignments for the Chefs.  I think this will help new players ease into the roll of Judges, giving them a wide range of creative assignments (that have been playtested for balance) to choose from.  After people are comfortable with the game they may dispense with these and simply invent their own assignments on the fly (which is what the original rules proscribed).

Examples of Chef Assignment Cards:

Title: Chef's Dish of Choice
Chefs: Prepare a single dish of your choice.
Judge: Deal each chef 7 cards; they made trade in up to 3; they must use at least 4.

Title: A Unique Appetizer
Chefs: Prepare an appetizer with never-before-seen flavor combinations.
Judge: Deal each chef 7 cards; they made trade in up to 3; they must use at least 4.

Title: Distasteful Dish
Chefs: Create the worst tasting dish they can come up with.
Judge: Deal each chef 7 cards; they made trade in up to 3; they must use at least 4.

Title: A 3-Course Meal
Chefs: Create a 3-course meal -- an appetizer, a main course, and a desert.
Judge: Deal each chef 12 cards; they made trade in up to 7, twice.

Title: Sandwich of the Day
Chefs: Invent a new sandwich; assume you have the bread of your choice.
Judge: Deal each chef 7 cards; they made trade in up to 3; they must use at least 4.

Title: Soup of the Day
Chefs: Invent a new soup; assume you start with a traditional soup base/stock and juse add flavors.
Judge: Deal each chef 7 cards; they made trade in up to 3; they must use at least 4.

Title: The Special Ingredient
Chefs: Prepare a single dish of your choice, using the Special Ingredient.
Judge: Choose a Special Ingredient of your choice from the Ingredient deck and place it face up on the table.  Deal each chef 7 cards; they made trade in up to 3; they must use at least 3, in addition to the Special Ingredient.

Title: The Secret Ingredient
Chefs: Prepare a single dish of their choice -- incorporate the Secret Ingredient when it is revealed.
Judge: Choose a Secret Ingredient of your choice from the Ingredient deck and place it face *DOWN* on the table.  Tell the chef's the kind of ingredient it is (spice, fruit, etc.) but not the actual Ingredient.  Deal each chef 7 cards; they made trade in up to 3.  After chef's have traded in any cards, turn the Secret Ingredient face up.  Chef's must create dishes using at least 3 ingredients, in addition to the Special Ingredient.

Title: Teamwork Meal
Chefs: Work as a team to create a 3-course meal -- an appetizer, a main course, and a desert.
Judge: Divide players into teams with no more than 3 players on each team. With teams of less than 3, choose which players will have to make multiple dishes.  Deal each chef 7 cards; they made trade in up to 3; they must use at least 4.  Each team must create an appetizer, main course, and desert.  Award points to each team -- all players share the points for their team.  You may also give one player some bonus individual points.

Title: Neo-minimalist
Chefs: Prepare a single dish of your choice, using exactly 3 Ingredients.
Judge: Deal each chef 7 cards; they made trade in up to 4; they must use exactly 3 ingredients

Title: Sabotage
Chefs: Prepare a single dish of your choice.
Judge: Deal each chef 7 cards; they made trade in up to 3; they must use at least 4.  After all Chef's have traded in any cards, instruct each Chef to pass one card clockwise (or counter-clockwise); Chefs *MUST* use the card passed to them in their final dish.

Title: Pot luck
Chefs: Prepare a single dish of your choice.
Judge: Deal each chef 7 cards; they made trade in up to 3; they must use at least 4.  After all Chef's have traded in any cards, instruct each Chef to choose one card at random from their clockwise (or counter-clockwise) neighbor; Chefs *MUST* use the card they pick in this fashion in their final dish.

Title: Chef's Dish of Choice*
Chefs: Prepare a single dish of your choice.
Judge: Deal each chef 7 cards; they made trade in up to 3; they must use at least 4.  ONLY AFTER chef's have traded in their cards and discarded ingredients they will not be using for their dish, announce to them the surprise -- that they will be trading their entire hand of ingredients to their clockwise (or counter-clockwise) neighbor.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 06:27:26 PM by mouser » Logged
mouser
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2012, 05:38:11 PM »

One fun idea I had for a kickstarter perk is, if by some miracle it raised enough money to make it economically feasible, we could rent out a small restaurant and a professional chef or two, and have a little one-night tournament where players create dishes at their tables, and chefs actually cook, plate, and serve up the dishes for final judging, and we hand out a trophy.  Video recorded and posted online of course.
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2012, 06:05:09 PM »

Interesting idea - on reading the instructions it feels more of a culinary 'role playing game' than a competitive game.  I watch some of those cooking shows (Top Chef, Chopped, Restaurant Impossible) with my wife, and while I'm not a rabid fan, they sure can be entertaining.  I could see how a group of fans of those types of show might really enjoy this game.  Who knows - some interesting actual meals might pop out as a result!

Also, it kind of reminds me of those 'deal-a-meal' recipe cards that were hawked on TV long ago (a nostalgia thing).

Unfortunately, being supremely non-creative, I'm ill-equipped to provide any help of the sort you're actually looking for.
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mouser
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2012, 06:19:09 PM »

Quote
Who knows - some interesting actual meals might pop out as a result!

We've yet to play a game where we weren't saying at various points: "I'd really like to try that and see how it tastes!"
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sword
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2012, 09:45:00 PM »

Possible name:
dish-continu or dishcontinu
Nothing conflicting found through DuckDuckGo or Google.
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2012, 11:04:21 PM »

dishcontinu
You're really Sean Connery, aren't you!
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 11:33:26 AM »

Quote
Possible name:
dish-continu or dishcontinu

I like it! Mouser, you'd have to vow, with the initial release: "I will never discontinue dishcontinue...
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mouser
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 02:32:40 PM »

Something unique with the word "Chef" in the title might be good..
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 03:38:01 PM »

@cranioscopical
Not Connery, honest, but ninety percent Scottish ancestry from 1610 to 1730. Did not realize it was resurfacing  Grin
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kilele
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2012, 11:39:39 AM »

you might get feedback from this spanish community:
Sociedad Británica para el Conocimiento (BSK)
They have a forum with an interesting print&play section where amateur developers share their creations (I bought a dice game about tenis called "Passing Shot" created by one of its members), and collaborate to make tabletop games. I'll try to post a thread there about your project.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 12:07:50 PM by kilele » Logged
Renegade
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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 12:03:25 PM »

From:

Quote
Adding a main gameplay mode that does not depend on subjective culinary judgement.  That is, I want to add an alternative, more traditional card game that can be played with the cards, for people who may not love the idea of a subjective social party game. Adding small amount of extra indicators on cards to facilitate this is possible (numbers, etc.)

If you're into designing each card more, you can add in classifications, e.g. fruit, vegetable, spicy, etc., and "goes with" or "conflicts with" attributes. If you look at typical card games, those are the kinds of things that they use. The Illuminati card game from Steve Jackson games is a good example.

As a simple example, you could have "Chocolate" with "Goes with EVERYTHING!" Or "Anchovies" goes with "NOTHING!" etc.

Cards could give other cards bonuses, e.g. Garlic gives a +1 flavour bonus to pasta, and a -1 flavour penalty to ice cream. etc.

I'd probably set up a "dish" or "menu item" system where you combine ingredients to create something. You could also have things like unlimited vegetables, but limited meat items, and have some "spices" give an "allows 1 additional meat item in a dish" bonus. etc.

However, that is all about game mechanics, but it does solve the issue. I don't know how complex you want the game mechanics to be though, so I can't really say much more.

I would have a way for people to vote in the game though. You could then have alliances, people stabbing each other in the back, general mayhem, bloodshed, and all that good stuff that makes a game addictive~! cheesy (Yeah - I love "Diplomacy" the game.)
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mouser
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 12:09:21 PM »

Thanks kilele!
I should post about this on Board Game Geek as well.



Renegade:

Quote
If you're into designing each card more, you can add in classifications, e.g. fruit, vegetable, spicy, etc., and "goes with" or "conflicts with" attributes.

Yes, I also thought that to make it a more traditional game, I will probably be adding some small amount of extra indicators on the cards -- like the category, maybe a number.  But I don't want it to get too busy.

The key for this alternative game is that it should be a game that does not depend on arguing about subjective taste, like the main game does, and does not depend on players being honest/objective/fair.  Hence I have been thinking about rather traditional card game rules -- but you remind me that there are alternative social games that might also be possible.

I'm a big believer in keeping things simple and striving for elegance -- so I want to keep the rules and any adding info on cards as minimal as possible.  But I'd love to have an element of players hindering other players, something that is missing from the main game, which is much less cutthroat.
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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 12:20:31 PM »

Just another thought:

Quote
Writing an ingredient guide and glossary (basically some info+trivia about each ingredient and general culinary tips).

Most card games have something called "flavour text", which doesn't affect the functionality/ability of the card, but gives it a bit of, well, flavour~! Grin

I think my favourite Magic card is this one:

http://gatherer.wizards.c...ls.aspx?multiverseid=2283



The card itself sucks, but the text for it is just wicked cool! Grin

I'm not sure if that's what you were already thinking though.
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2012, 12:39:06 PM »

My original intention was to add flavor text to all of the cards.. After we playtested it however, people seemed to like the very clean look of the cards, so now i'm not sure.  If it's added it will be very minimal.  And any iconography that gets placed on the cards will be likewise minimal.  This is a game that very much depends on the visceral feeling of working with food, so the food images are the stars.  If it got funded, one of the first tasks would be to hire a professional food photographer and create better photographs for the cards (or purchase rights from somewhere).
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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2012, 12:44:07 PM »

My original intention was to add flavor text to all of the cards.. After we playtested it however, people seemed to like the very clean look of the cards, so now i'm not sure.  If it's added it will be very minimal.  And any iconography that gets placed on the cards will be likewise minimal.  This is a game that very much depends on the visceral feeling of working with food, so the food images are the stars.  If it got funded, one of the first tasks would be to hire a professional food photographer and create better photographs for the cards (or purchase rights from somewhere).

There are some very good stock photography sites out there. You can get time-limited access (etc. etc.) and get everything you need for relatively cheap. Think under $1,000, and even maybe as low as $250. A photographer will cost much, much more.
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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2012, 12:51:28 PM »

I've edited the link of passing shot with its kickstarter campaign, and I've just approached this lady who makes video reviews of tabletop games
http://www.jck.cl/wordpress/jck-las-peticiones/
http://www.youtube.com/user/JugandoConKetty
although she is from Chile so there could be problems with the language of pirates in case she has got interest in your project

EDIT:
just set an email to theboardgamefamily.com
who has a youtube channel as well
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 01:57:16 PM by kilele » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2012, 01:35:28 PM »

Just a brain fart, but for the social aspect, why not a "like" type aspect where you can't vote against something, but you can vote FOR something.

Players could "vote" on another players dish by putting up 1 hand for "I'd eat that" or 2 hands for "YUMMY!" It would keep a positive aspect on the game, but still allow that slightly dark side of "not" voting.

I still think that even with a minimalistic tone to the game, some very simple bonuses could make things more fun. e.g. A card like:

Title: Natural Sea Salt
Ability: Gives +1 "delicious" to a dish (or +2 votes to soup or whatever)

Title: Basil
Ability: Gives +2 "delicious" to any Thai dish

Title: Organic Tomatoes
Ability: Gives +1 health

Title: Tomatoes
Ability: None. But makes for great ketchup.

Title: MSG
Ability: Gives -1 health to any dish

i.e. There could be some "nasty" cards to have.

Title: Sugar
Ability: Gives +2 delicious and -1 health

Title: Honey
Ability: Gives +2 delicious and +1 health

Title: Raw Cane Sugar
Ability: Gives +1 delicious

When you break it down, food is all about 2 things - taste and health.

Players could compete for 2 titles - taste and health. The game could end up with 2 winners instead of just 1. That's what I'd call a win-win proposition~! Grin

Yeah... All still pretty much game mechanics, but it would help ease out some of the purely subjectiveness. It doesn't all have to be perfectly accurate as in the real world.
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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2012, 02:38:51 PM »

@mouser #14 "...create better photographs...":

I would like to contribute (free) photos. What subjects do you want first? Any preferred style or format?

Digital cameras: Olympus C-5060, 5.1 MP; Pentax Optio, 5 MP.
Film camera: Bronica 2. 1/4" square, 6 cm square, 120, bellows, spot, TTL and color temp meters, lots of lenses. Film is slower because of developing since I sold my darkroom stuff.
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mouser
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« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2012, 02:55:14 PM »

Thanks so much sword, that is very generous of you!  To be honest I think I'm coming to believe that improving the photographs may be best left to wait as something to do if the Kickstarter attempt is successful.  Food photography seems like a very specialized time consuming thing, and for a card game, I think the goal will be some consistency in the photos, so it's probably wasteful to try to get new photos at this point...
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« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2012, 12:33:34 AM »

...I think the goal will be some consistency in the photos...

GROCERY SHOPPING~! YAY~!

I love grocery shopping - especially at the farmers' market. cheesy
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« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2012, 02:45:02 AM »

Film photography is time consuming and color can be very expensive. Let me know if scanned drawings or paintings might be useful. Watercolor, ink, pastel.
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2012, 11:19:00 AM »

scanned drawings or paintings
That could be a good idea, and distinctive.  thumbs up
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« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2012, 12:18:12 PM »

I think you could get more feedback if you do a mock extended play youtube of the game as soon as possible. (Before the videos meant for the Kickstarter page.)

Basically just feature input stuff like implementing some of the suggestions listed and being able to see how they actually change from the default game in real time. Even the bad ideas and why they are bad ideas for the game.

Some people like me are slow on rule books and not many people have time for a pdf. A progressive video would be much faster to capture the progressive gist of the game. It may even get you faster feedback towards a gameplay mode.

I think because it's based on real items, the video could be pulled off even as a chat room recording. The idea is really just like having a blog as obvious as it sounds. Seeing a game on a daily to weekly basis is often an underrated aspect of a card game. You think a game is fun under a certain setting but turns out there's a huge exploit or once more players are into it, the original mechanic isn't as sound as it is and the game progresses into something it's not. You really want to have "pseudo-professionals" more than beta testers as soon as possible for gameplay mode for card games.

Edit:

Oh yeah, I'm not really familiar with foods respected by different nations but certain cards could gain prestige if you sort of could have a special version of those food like california oranges or something. It doesn't have to be overpowered, just that it allows a certain gravity towards a gameplay mode rather than a subjective judgement.

Another idea is the ability to fuse ingredients that are not available in the default set of cards. The fusion doesn't really have to have a special property other than the allowance for someone to escape a trapped predicament. Like maybe certain foods can't be turned into edible paper but if you have rice, a player can "summon" edible printer even if it's not in the actual design of the rule book.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 12:28:48 PM by Paul Keith » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2012, 03:21:57 PM »

Something unique with the word "Chef" in the title might be good..

Shuffling Chef Poker?
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