Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • November 21, 2017, 08:01 AM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Last post Author Topic: bicycling suddenly a British speciality?!  (Read 8809 times)

IainB

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,756
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: bicycling suddenly a British speciality?!
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2016, 11:11 AM »
@tomos: Looks like rather a nice bike - and pretty sturdy. Thanks for the link.

IainB

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,756
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Bike Shed - query re Bergamont Vitess 5.0
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2017, 02:55 PM »
@tomos:
^ here's a link -- I got the 2015 model but, AFAICS, there were only cosmetic changes for the 2016 model.
Bergamont Vitess 5.0

The V6 model is lighter again, but they didnt have it in stock, and I was happy enough with this one weightwise (and pricewise). Beyond that I cant say much as I'm pretty ignorant of bikes and bike parts. It's at 300+km now and going nicely apart from the saddle which is bruising (!). The shop has offered to let me test saddles, just have to find the time.
__________________________
One of my cycling buddies is considering buying a second-hand Bergamont Vitess 5.0.
What is your view of the bike now? Did you also find a less "bruising" seat for it?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 03:12 AM by IainB »

tomos

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,889
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: bicycling suddenly a British speciality?!
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2017, 02:33 AM »
One of my cycling buddies is considering buying a second-hand Bergamont Vitess 5.0.
What is your view of the bike now? Did you also find a less "bruising" seat for it?

I loved the bike -- was fast, light, solid -- used it mainly going into town - 14 km one way, but also a bit in the woods.

Now I did have problems with the bike -- but they were more to do with me not fitting the bike design, than with the actual bike. Some background:
From years of drawing on computers, my wrists are very, eh, 'sensitive', for want of a better word. I cannot put a lot of weight on them; have to be careful not to work with the hand/wrist in a bent position. I also have minor shoulder problem on one side, which possibly related to hips being slightly out of line.

The bergamot has lower handlebars than my previous bikes, and they are designed to lean on with the wrists bent. With that combination I ended up with wrist problems and neck problems and stopped using it. I was away for three weeks last year, and a friend of mine borrowed the bike -- she loves it and ended up buying it from me -- I got a new camera with the money...

So the bike is still in use and going well after a year -- very hard to say exactly, but has been doing maybe an average of 70km a week over the temperate months (about ten months use since it was bought).

I dont know how much value that info has, also considering I've only ever been a casual cyclist, so would possibly be judging differently to anyone who calls themselves a cyclist.
Tom

IainB

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,756
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Bike Shed - bicycle ergonomics
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2017, 07:53 AM »
Thanks.
I know what you mean about the wrists bent position. It hurts because it puts unnatural strain on joints and ligaments - which are not really built for that load.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 03:13 AM by IainB »

Shades

  • Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • Posts: 2,264
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: bicycling suddenly a British speciality?!
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2017, 12:09 PM »
City bikes are much more useful for casual cycling and have the advantage that you can do much more with it. Now a mountain bike is an excellent bike for the purpose it is designed for. But you are not inclined to take your bike out to get a few days worth of groceries on it, because it ain't that practical.

And for most people that is enough to not consider doing any bicycling., while a more practical model could. I grew up in the Netherlands, which has dedicated infrastructure for cycling and you can easily move 30 to 50 kilo of gear/groceries/children/whatever with a properly loaded standard bicycle. Sure, travel time is longer, but you hardly need any time for parking and often you can leave your bike much closer to the entrance of the place where you need to be.

To me, it is weird that so many people are afflicted by mountain bikes. Even here in the capital of Paraguay there are many cycle stores, but you cannot buy any other type of bicycle than mountain bikes. Friends I know here, are shipping a sea-container here from NL and I asked if there was space for a city model bicycle. Unfortunately, that is the most practical way to get a non-mountain bike here.

The activity of cycling is healthy, but I have my doubts about the posture the cyclist must assume on a mountain bike. Sitting straight up on a city bike model is less efficient aerodynamically. But if you cross your arms in front of your torso and bring your torso down towards the curved handlebar, so that your hands have good grip on the straight part of the curved handlebar, the aerodynamic efficiency is almost equal to that of a mountain bike, there is no strain on any injured elbow or wrist and you still have the advantages of the city bike model.

Speaking from personal experience, I always found that way of cycling very comfortable and makes you more stable as you lower your point of gravity during cycling, which comes in handy when wind batters you from either your right or left side (instead of head on).

*edit: better description of body positioning on city bike model
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 12:23 PM by Shades »

IainB

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,756
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Bike Shed - drag effect in cycling.
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2017, 09:28 PM »
If cycling on roads, which can make for quite fast progress, there are two drag effects worth considering:
  • (a) Air drag (friction): on the forward-facing surfaces of of the cyclist's body. Many cyclists do not appreciate how much energy they have to expend pedalling to overcome air drag. The drag effect is more noticeable the faster one goes. That drag can be significantly reduced by fitting (say) the drop-handlebars of a road bike. The trouble with drop bars is that the handbrake levers are lower also. I tend to find that long periods in the crouched position for drop bars are tiring and restrictive and can hurt my wrists a bit. Thus, at lower speeds, I like to ride my road bike sitting up more straight and with my hands gripping the top (straight) part of the handlebar - which is risky as the brakes are too far away to get hold of in a hurry. So I have an ancillary pair of handbrakes fitted on the top part of the handlebar, angled down and just right ergonomically, positioned right within reach of my extended fingers when my hands are on the upper part of the handlebar - very comfortable.

  • (b) Rolling resistance (friction): on the tyres as they touch the road. Many cyclists do not appreciate how much energy they have to expend pedalling to overcome rolling resistance. This drag can be considerably reduced/minimised by fitting the smoother road tyres (i.e., not the knobbly multi-terrain type tyres) - which is what I usually do for my daughter's bike. Keeping them at max pressure also helps to minimise rolling resistance.


Reduced drag can equate variously to:
  • greater efficiency (less energy used),
  • better energy reserves, improving the potential ability to cover greater distances,
  • higher average speeds,
  • a more enjoyable ride,
  • a less tiring ride,
  • improved motivation to cycle because one's ability to cover greater distances in a more relaxed fashion is enhanced.

The last point (motivation) in the list could be significant - e.g., when taking on the challenge of longish bike-rides, the challenge is reduced. Motivation and enjoyability could also provide mutually reinforcing feedback.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 03:11 AM by IainB »

IainB

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,756
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: The Bike Shed - efficiency, ergonomics and knee-joint health.
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2017, 03:10 AM »
@Shades:
I think I understand most of the points you make above, but am confuzzled where you say:
But if you cross your arms in front of your torso and bring your torso down towards the curved handlebar, so that your hands have good grip on the straight part of the curved handlebar, the aerodynamic efficiency is almost equal to that of a mountain bike, there is no strain on any injured elbow or wrist and you still have the advantages of the city bike model.
- "cross your arms in front of your torso"? How does that work?    :tellme:

Also, "afflicted by mountain bikes"?  Did you intend to mean "think they need to use" or were you being sarcastic? Sounds like mountain bikes are the only option (no choice) in Paraguay.
The gearing (gear ratios) of bikes is generally optimised for the kind of terrain the bike is intended for use on. The gearing of mountain bikes is thus all wrong for road use anyway - less efficient and more energy-draining. I always shake my head in wonderment when I see people on mountain or off-road bikes pedalling furiously along a road/pavement but actually moving rather slowly and not realising the implications. Ergonomics is all-important. A badly-designed bike - or one with the wrong gear ratios or that is the wrong size for the individual using it - can be very inefficient in use, and may even cause injury - e.g., kneecap damage, leading to patellofemoral arthritis

A well-designed bike efficiently converts and optimises the energy of muscle power into forward motion. Trick bikes, for example, might be great for bike tricks, but have shallow depth frames where the length of the fully-extended leg is not usually accommodated, so a lot of potential energy is lost unless one stands up from the saddle - which is inefficient anyway. So they are not of much use for road-cycling, but I have seen them used for that.

Interestingly, riding a correctly-sized bike in a low gear a lot is recognised as a very good way to repair knee damage in patellofemoral arthritis. I know this to be the case from personal experience - because it was the recommended remedy/treatment to repair the patellofemoral damage I had unwittingly incurred between the ages of 16 to 20 from too much ski-ing, weight training with heavy squats, distance road-running, and intensive soccer-playing. The arthritis surfaced painfully in my 30's whilst I was walking/climbing over some NZ mountain ranges and since then has been one good reason I try to keep regularly cycling. The arthritis thus rarely bothers me as the rough bits (criss-crossed grain of repaired cartilage) on the joints at the back of the patellas are kept smooth/polished and healed by virtue of the gentle repetitive cycling motion (in low gear), which also stimulates blood flow to the joints to help repair/maintain the damaged areas.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 09:41 AM by IainB, Reason: Minor corrections. »

wraith808

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2006
  • **
  • default avatar
  • Posts: 8,997
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: bicycling suddenly a British speciality?!
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2017, 09:31 AM »
I think I understand most of the points you make above, but am confuzzled where you say:
Quote from: Shades on July 23, 2017, 02:09:57 PM
But if you cross your arms in front of your torso and bring your torso down towards the curved handlebar, so that your hands have good grip on the straight part of the curved handlebar, the aerodynamic efficiency is almost equal to that of a mountain bike, there is no strain on any injured elbow or wrist and you still have the advantages of the city bike model.
- "cross your arms in front of your torso"? How does that work?   

cycling.jpg

Hard to put into words in a post, even for a native English speaker.

cycling.jpg