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Last post Author Topic: "Save the internet"  (Read 18031 times)

joiwind

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"Save the internet"
« on: November 16, 2011, 05:47:15 AM »
Don't know if anyone here is interested (i.e. not too jaded or blasé) but there's a petition running currently on Avaaz :

Spoiler
Right now, the US Congress is debating a law that would give them the power to censor the world's internet -- creating a blacklist that could target Youtube, WikiLeaks and even groups like Avaaz!

Under the new law, the US could force internet providers to block any website on suspicion of violating copyright or trademark legislation, or even failing to sufficiently police their users' activities. And, because so much of the internet's hosts and hardware are located in the US, their blacklist would clamp down on the free web for all of us.

The vote could be in days but we can help stop this -- champions in Congress want to preserve free speech and tell us that an international outcry would strengthen their hand. Let’s urgently raise our voices from every corner of the world and build an unprecedented global petition calling on US decision makers to reject the bill and stop internet censorship. Sign the petition and then forward as widely as possible - our message will be delivered directly to key members of the US Congress ahead of the crucial vote.


The petition is here.
.: I use K-Meleon - the browser you can control - but I love Pale Moon too :.

Stoic Joker

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2011, 06:28:26 AM »
signed

cranioscopical

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2011, 06:42:23 AM »
+ 1

Renegade

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2011, 06:51:01 AM »
+1

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

mahesh2k

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2011, 07:53:29 AM »
Done. Going to spread this on facebook and google+.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 08:12:23 AM by mahesh2k »

Jibz

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2011, 10:41:01 AM »
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 10:55:41 AM by Jibz »

Carol Haynes

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2011, 11:05:18 AM »
If it happens it will have an interesting effect on the US economy as servers start moving offshore.

Surely it will be challenged anyway under the first amendment because removing sites that can 'potentially' break copyright is not the same as stopping sites that deliberately flaunt copyright laws (most of which probably in the US)!

Deozaan

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2011, 05:13:40 PM »
If it happens it will have an interesting effect on the US economy as servers start moving offshore.

That's one of the issues that the Protect IP Act is designed to deal with. Servers that are outside of USA jurisdiction.

Here's another petition I saw recently that seems a bit better organized that the Avaaz one: http://fightforthefuture.org/pipa/

But I think it requires you to actually live in the USA so it can send a letter directly to your specific representative(s).


Stoic Joker

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2011, 05:48:03 PM »
Signed ^that one^ too.

Carol Haynes

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2011, 06:04:05 PM »
That's one of the issues that the Protect IP Act is designed to deal with. Servers that are outside of USA jurisdiction.

So if large numbers of main stream servers move out of the USA the government will block them - and that isn't going to get into a class action of epic proportions on the grounds of freedom of speech.

The US government can posture and cow-tow to the film and music industries as much as they like they won't be shutting down the likes of YouTube any time soon. If they do there will be another shot heard around the world as sites like YouTube, for all its faults and frustrations, are seen by many to be the last bastions of free speech in the US.

Torrent sharing sites are perhaps a different matter but as fast as governments close them down they reappear on different servers in different countries. Look at WikiLeaks as an example of a site governments would love, and tried, to shutdown - all it did was proliferate on a global scale.

Prohibition didn't work in the US - internet prohibition isn't going to work any better - it will just create innovation and a lot of bureaucrats chasing shadows.

zridling

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2011, 06:30:21 PM »
you-shall-not-pass-SOPA.jpg

Stoic Joker

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2011, 06:55:14 PM »
I suspect that quite a few talented IT types - that have been staying on the sidelines - will step wistfully off into the abyss of the (hacking) dark-side the instant this POS passes if it does.

Stephen66515

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2011, 06:58:08 PM »
*Signed*

Renegade

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2011, 07:20:05 PM »
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

kyrathaba

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2011, 08:54:13 PM »
Voted, and posted on Facebook.

Carol Haynes

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2011, 01:24:25 PM »
Interesting article on how other countries may be affected at: http://www.v3.co.uk/...-affect-uk-web-sites

What seems even more astonishing to me is that effectively if one user breaks T&Cs  and isn't caught rapidly (on platforms such as WordPress or Blogger) they could result in the collapse of the whole infrastructure for those platforms! Are we suddenly going to see such site content being moderated before you are allowed to post it - if so who will pay the moderators? Or does the proposed legislation allow for cease and desist orders to be issued before the sites are effectively taken down?

What about internet routing - suppose someone in Japan wants to look at a UK website and the routing takes it through servers in the US - will a UK site be effectively blocked from trading in Japan ??

If it isn't thought through properly I can see other countries producing workarounds effectively leaving US regulated space an island apart! What will that do for economic recovery? (Probably rather good for everyone outside the US and therefore a potentially attractive proposition.

Where does this go next - will a bad review on Amazon bring down Amazon because a production company claims it is defammatory?

joiwind

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2011, 04:37:09 PM »
The poll count is over 550,000 ... and rising.
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joiwind

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2011, 05:13:24 AM »
606,000 +

Could people also help THIS petition to get to 500,000 - thanks.  :Thmbsup:
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Stephen66515

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2011, 08:06:38 PM »
606,000 +

Could people also help THIS petition to get to 500,000 - thanks.  :Thmbsup:

530,950 have signed.  :D

IainB

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2012, 05:59:55 PM »
The US government can posture and cow-tow to the film and music industries as much as they like they won't be shutting down the likes of YouTube any time soon. If they do there will be another shot heard around the world as sites like YouTube, for all its faults and frustrations, are seen by many to be the last bastions of free speech in the US.

Torrent sharing sites are perhaps a different matter but as fast as governments close them down they reappear on different servers in different countries. Look at WikiLeaks as an example of a site governments would love, and tried, to shutdown - all it did was proliferate on a global scale.

Prohibition didn't work in the US - internet prohibition isn't going to work any better - it will just create innovation and a lot of bureaucrats chasing shadows.
I would have liked to have thought that what @Carol Haynes said above would be borne out in fact.
Reading this today gave me some hope: Web Titans Contemplate "Nuclear Option" Against SOPA

What seems even more astonishing to me is that effectively if one user breaks T&Cs  and isn't caught rapidly (on platforms such as WordPress or Blogger) they could result in the collapse of the whole infrastructure for those platforms! Are we suddenly going to see such site content being moderated before you are allowed to post it - if so who will pay the moderators?
Yes it does seem astonishing, but perhaps it should not be. That prospect (being peremptorily shut down) could be a pretty strong incentive for the ISPs and domains to fiercely censor (let's be PC and call it "self-regulate") their own content. That daft idea recently of the Indian government's to get ISPs to censor their networks was just an example of a Fascist totalitarianism beginning to flex its muscles. Plenty more where that came from, and the US would seem to have it in spades.

Whatever the outcome, I still get the distinct impression that the SOPA proposals are at least further tangible evidence - if any further were needed - that  American democracy, freedoms and liberties have been and are being gnawed away at an alarming rate by various agencies, including powerful corporate, capitalist, communist, Fascist, statist and religio-political ideological lobbies. The freedom of the individual would be largely irrelevant in this greater context.

Maybe western civilisation is steadily inching backwards in time towards a pre-Magna Carta state of affairs, in Al Gore's "new world order" of World Government by highly-paid (by us taxpayers) unelected officials ("leaders"), and a loss of national sovereignty. It has already happened in the EU. Who can predict the future? Western democracy is relatively young and fragile, and may already have had its day.

berry

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2012, 07:28:06 PM »
Whatever the outcome, I still get the distinct impression that the SOPA proposals are at least further tangible evidence - if any further were needed - that  American democracy, freedoms and liberties have been and are being gnawed away at an alarming rate by various agencies, including powerful corporate, capitalist, communist, Fascist, statist and religio-political ideological lobbies. The freedom of the individual would be largely irrelevant in this greater context.

I'm very apprehensive that my children will live in a society where individual freedom as we used to know it is only a memory. The "rights" of individuals has been superceded by corporate greed and the politicians the corporations have bought.

Very sad indeed.

Renegade

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2012, 07:46:40 PM »
Whatever the outcome, I still get the distinct impression that the SOPA proposals are at least further tangible evidence - if any further were needed - that  American democracy, freedoms and liberties have been and are being gnawed away at an alarming rate by various agencies, including powerful corporate, capitalist, communist, Fascist, statist and religio-political ideological lobbies. The freedom of the individual would be largely irrelevant in this greater context.

I'm very apprehensive that my children will live in a society where individual freedom as we used to know it is only a memory. The "rights" of individuals has been superceded by corporate greed and the politicians the corporations have bought.

Very sad indeed.

+1

I would post some links, however, they're highly political and controversial, so not really the right place here (they would be inflammatory for some people). If you like, PM me and I'll send you some links and some quick information.

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2012, 08:20:47 PM »
Be interesting if this were to actually come to pass...

From the folks at OSNews (link to full article here)

Quote
Google, Facebook, Amazon May Go Black in SOPA Protest
posted by Thom Holwerda on Wed 4th Jan 2012 10:37
 
So, this one slipped by completely undetected late last year (no, I don't grow tired of saying that). CNet reported that Google, Amazon, Facebook, and similarly large, anti-SOPA companies are mulling over the option of taking their websites off the air to replace them with an anti-SOPA message, asking users to contact their elected officials.

The option to let popular websites that oppose SOPA go black as a sort of last ditch effort, a nuclear option if you will, has been bandied about on the web quite often. As it turns out, it's not just some wishful thinking among Redditors and the rest of the web - Facebook, Google, Amazon, and others are actually considering this option.

CNet talked to Markham Erickson, head of the NetCoalition trade association, which consists of, among others, Google, Amazon.com, eBay, and Yahoo. "There have been some serious discussions about that," he told CNet, "It has never happened before."

I'll believe it when I see it. But wouldn't it be "Something wonderful, Dave." (like HAL said) if they really went ahead and did?
 8)


Renegade

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2012, 08:31:03 PM »
Be interesting if this were to actually come to pass...

From the folks at OSNews (link to full article here)

Quote
Google, Facebook, Amazon May Go Black in SOPA Protest
posted by Thom Holwerda on Wed 4th Jan 2012 10:37
 
So, this one slipped by completely undetected late last year (no, I don't grow tired of saying that). CNet reported that Google, Amazon, Facebook, and similarly large, anti-SOPA companies are mulling over the option of taking their websites off the air to replace them with an anti-SOPA message, asking users to contact their elected officials.

The option to let popular websites that oppose SOPA go black as a sort of last ditch effort, a nuclear option if you will, has been bandied about on the web quite often. As it turns out, it's not just some wishful thinking among Redditors and the rest of the web - Facebook, Google, Amazon, and others are actually considering this option.

CNet talked to Markham Erickson, head of the NetCoalition trade association, which consists of, among others, Google, Amazon.com, eBay, and Yahoo. "There have been some serious discussions about that," he told CNet, "It has never happened before."

I'll believe it when I see it. But wouldn't it be "Something wonderful, Dave." (like HAL said) if they really went ahead and did?
 8)



I think it's a rather exciting prospect that these companies would go that far to protest against what truly is pure evil.

I hope it doesn't come to that, and that SOPA is torpedoed, but... if need be... they'll certainly earn some serious street cred if they go through with it.



Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Stoic Joker

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Re: "Save the internet"
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2012, 08:35:37 PM »
But wouldn't it be "Something wonderful, Dave." (like HAL said) if they really went ahead and did?

Damn Straight!