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Poll
Question: Do you think adding optional image saving support to CHS should be a top priority?
Yes, CHS needs to be able to save clipboard images, i can't live without this - 5 (29.4%)
It would be nice to have but it's not that important to me - 10 (58.8%)
I'm a CHS text purist, i don't need a clipboard tool to save images and waste space - 2 (11.8%)
Total Voters: 17

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Author Topic: V2 Beta of Clipboard Help+Spell With Support for Images  (Read 20368 times)
mouser
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« Reply #75 on: May 01, 2011, 04:19:06 PM »

New beta up with more sound options (see here for screenshot/discussion).
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mouser
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« Reply #76 on: May 01, 2011, 09:11:29 PM »

I put up a new version trying to fix some extraneous duplicate-clip sounds, but i'm noticing the presence of a bug when copying url from active browser windows, trying to identify and fix.
I'm hoping maybe if i fix it i will also be able to eliminate the slight delay when capturing browser urls with clips.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 10:03:42 PM by mouser » Logged
mouser
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« Reply #77 on: May 03, 2011, 02:38:39 PM »

New beta version is up -- new "stats" page in options, attempt to fix weird issue with capturing from web page causing multiple copy operations, added option to move clip to top on paste.

Note: Sorry for this, but updaters should edit their "Quick Paste" group (right click on it and choose edit), and change the custom sort from "Ordering,CreationDateTime" to "Ordering,ModificationDateTime".
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #78 on: May 03, 2011, 07:19:22 PM »

Note: Sorry for this, but updaters should edit their "Quick Paste" group


That's better, clip sound was a little eccentric previously, due to multiple copies I suppose.

Don't be sorry! Speaking personally, I could manage this without your having to draw me a picture.
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Chris
tomos
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« Reply #79 on: May 04, 2011, 02:36:34 AM »

upgraded to latest beta from an older one (last week sometime)

First got this message:
---------------------------
Clipboard Help+Spell
---------------------------
TableClips: Field 'Index' not found.
---------------------------
OK  
---------------------------

Then when I open the main window I get this and cant find anything...



Tree & Grid tabs are just grey. My favourites still exist when I paste but I dont see any quick paste clips - i.e. clips I just copied
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Tom
tomos
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« Reply #80 on: May 04, 2011, 03:02:15 AM »

^ I forgot to say:
the presets weren't available. There was some option there but unfortunately I didnt keep a record of it.

After two restarts the whole thing seems to be okay now...
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Tom
tomos
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« Reply #81 on: May 04, 2011, 03:07:59 AM »

... (CH+S doesn't 'see' text copied from Illustrator btw) ...

this is a big problem for me - even if I'm editing text and copy it, it gets saved/displayed as a thumbnail
I mean, if I copy text I can paste it directly, but if I then copy something else, the previous clip is useless - it's thumbnail image gets pasted.
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Tom
cranioscopical
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« Reply #82 on: May 04, 2011, 09:13:43 AM »

Quote from: Tomos
if I copy text I can paste it directly, but if I then copy something else, the previous clip is useless - it's thumbnail image gets pasted.
Yeah, some of the more complex programs need a slew of associated stuff in order to maintain the purpose of whatever clip is being handled. I don't know how feasible it is to build that into CH+S manager. I know that it can be done but whether it's worth it is up to mouser.

I'll cross my… eyes… in hope (thanks for the anatomy lesson SJ).
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Chris
tomos
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« Reply #83 on: May 04, 2011, 09:20:10 AM »

Quote from: Tomos
if I copy text I can paste it directly, but if I then copy something else, the previous clip is useless - it's thumbnail image gets pasted.
Yeah, some of the more complex programs need a slew of associated stuff in order to maintain the purpose of whatever clip is being handled.

as I said to mouser, I would like to see the "slew of associated stuff" handled by CH&S, but in the case of text, I would very much prefer it were handled simply as text and the associated stuff dumped rather than the way it's currently dealt with...
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Tom
mouser
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« Reply #84 on: May 04, 2011, 09:29:32 AM »

Quote
even if I'm editing text and copy it, it gets saved/displayed as a thumbnail
I mean, if I copy text I can paste it directly, but if I then copy something else, the previous clip is useless - it's thumbnail image gets pasted.

What must be happening here is that Illustrator is copying both text and image date to clipboard, and CHS is favoring the image data over the text.  I'll make it favor text over image data, and then if need be i'll have to add some way for you to specify preferences on a per application basis.
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #85 on: May 04, 2011, 09:35:07 AM »

Quote from: Tomos
if I copy text I can paste it directly, but if I then copy something else, the previous clip is useless - it's thumbnail image gets pasted.
Yeah, some of the more complex programs need a slew of associated stuff in order to maintain the purpose of whatever clip is being handled.

as I said to mouser, I would like to see the "slew of associated stuff" handled by CH&S, but in the case of text, I would very much prefer it were handled simply as text and the associated stuff dumped rather than the way it's currently dealt with...

I could live with that but might there be the possibility of choosing to toggle how it's handled?
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Chris
tomos
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« Reply #86 on: May 04, 2011, 09:57:36 AM »

Quote from: Tomos
if I copy text I can paste it directly, but if I then copy something else, the previous clip is useless - it's thumbnail image gets pasted.
Yeah, some of the more complex programs need a slew of associated stuff in order to maintain the purpose of whatever clip is being handled.

as I said to mouser, I would like to see the "slew of associated stuff" handled by CH&S, but in the case of text, I would very much prefer it were handled simply as text and the associated stuff dumped rather than the way it's currently dealt with...

I could live with that but might there be the possibility of choosing to toggle how it's handled?

Chris, do you mean something like:
Toggle (in options?):
just text / or text with associated data. **

Or maybe ideally it would remember text + formatting etc, but if pasted in another application that cant read associated data, then the text would be favoured?


** [edit] I'm presuming that current behaviour is of no use to you either...
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 10:00:28 AM by tomos » Logged

Tom
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« Reply #87 on: May 04, 2011, 10:18:45 AM »

Just to clarify (I've been confusing even myself above):

Ideally CHS would remember associated data and try to paste a body of text with formatting etc.
Ideally if it cant do this, it would paste as plain text.

Should there more to the ideal options there?

I dont know if this is feasible, and/or how this would relate to text formatting in other (rich-text type) programmes
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Tom
mouser
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« Reply #88 on: May 04, 2011, 12:58:38 PM »

Some apps place 3 or more different formats of data on the clipboard for each copy event -- for example a vector image, a bitmap data image, some proprietary data, and some text.

In the ideal case, which CHS will eventually get to, CHS will be able to (perhaps overidable on a per-application basis) to capture Multiple formats of clipboard data for each copy event detected.  This data could get pretty huge so it might be important to let people filter out which data to ignore from each app. But then it gets a bit hairy.

And then on pasting, it would paste all the different formats back.

Right now CHS only copies 1 chosen format of clipboard data for each copy event, either text or bitmap.  And the new version will let you decide which it should prefer if BOTH are found (previous version always defaulted to image data if it is available).

Eventually I will try to make chs support the allformats mode, though that it messy.
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mouser
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« Reply #89 on: May 04, 2011, 01:03:56 PM »

New beta up with options in "Capture Options" tab to favor text over images or vice versa -- tomos can you see if that cures your Illustrator problem with no bad side effects?
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mouser
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« Reply #90 on: May 04, 2011, 01:15:51 PM »

ps. prepare for a change of the way i record image clips that will make you lose all your existing image clips.
I apologize for that but i'm trying to get the database in a good state for expanding to handle not just image but other external file and other data.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 03:12:06 PM by mouser » Logged
cranioscopical
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« Reply #91 on: May 04, 2011, 03:48:17 PM »

Quote from: mouser
prepare for a change of the way i record image clips that will make you lose all your existing image clips.

That's what beta versions are for. Thanks very much for working so hard on this. It really is appreciated.


Quote from: tomos
Chris, do you mean something like:
Toggle (in options?):
just text / or text with associated data. **

Or maybe ideally it would remember text + formatting etc, but if pasted in another application that cant read associated data, then the text would be favoured?

Ideally, it would be handled through some sort of profile preferences, and not a toggle as I previously suggested.
If this app, do this
If that app, do that
If none, default to the other

From mouser's posts it seems that his fertile brain is engaged with the 'problem'.


Quote from: tomos
I'm presuming that current behaviour is of no use to you either...

It's not ideal, no. It is light years ahead of having no image clips, however. Already I can do a great deal with CH+S+I but I'm greedy for more.
The combination of arm-twisting 'clients' and mouser's generous indulgence could well produce something spectacular.

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Chris
mouser
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« Reply #92 on: May 04, 2011, 05:01:20 PM »

There are 3 or 4 pieces to the puzzle:

  • Capturing MULTIPLE formats of data for each clip; this could include text, image, ole, richtext, customdata, etc.
  • Figuring out best interface to let people browse the multiple kinds of data associated with each clip.
  • Deciding how to store this data (some in external files like image files, but some like richtext might be best stored in the database).
  • Letting users customize which capture formats saved for different apps.

I'm trying to start with the stuff that is most likely to be useful to the most people -- namely adding image support.

As for customizing per app, i'll probably solve this simply by allowing user to specify a list of applicatons like:
[copy or print]
Photoshop.exe|ole,richtext:ignore
Notepad.exe|*:ignore
*|text,image:save

That would say to ignore ole and richtext format clipdata from photoshop;
Ignore everything from notepad;
Otherwise by default capture text and image data (both)
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #93 on: May 04, 2011, 06:01:13 PM »

Photoshop.exe|ole,richtext:ignore
Notepad.exe|*:ignore
*|text,image:save

At the risk (nay, on the certainty) of appearing even more obtuse than normal, where will the user find this information, and how will the user discover the relevance of each part?
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Chris
mouser
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« Reply #94 on: May 04, 2011, 06:56:50 PM »

Let's wait till its implemented, but i think there will be a new tab dedicated to it in options with hopefully enough help to make it understandable.
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cranioscopical
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« Reply #95 on: May 04, 2011, 07:14:42 PM »

i think there will be a new tab dedicated to it in options

Sounds good to me!
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Chris
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« Reply #96 on: May 04, 2011, 07:46:04 PM »

@mouser:
Just some feedback on CHS ß behaviour:
  • I notice that if I copy some types of text from MS OneNote, it goes into CHS as an image clip. It doesn't seem to consistently do this, and I have not yet figured out what the criteria are that govern whether it goes into CHS as text (which is what I usually want) or as an image.
  • CHS does not always copy when it is told to - i.e., no copy and no sound. If I go and do something else (clear the keyboard buffer?), then come back to the difficult copy, CHS will usually copy it OK.
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mouser
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« Reply #97 on: May 04, 2011, 07:53:38 PM »

IainB, try to open up the CHS options and go to the new Stats tab, and see if you can reproduce the problem and watch how, if at all, the stats change when it fails to copy anything.  Let me know what you discover.
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tomos
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« Reply #98 on: May 05, 2011, 03:01:15 AM »

Quote from: tomos
I'm presuming that current behaviour is of no use to you either...

It's not ideal, no. It is light years ahead of having no image clips, however.

absolutely! I wasnt clear though - I meant current behaviour with regard to text from graphics programmes

The combination of arm-twisting 'clients' and mouser's generous indulgence could well produce something spectacular.
thumbs up cheesy
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Tom
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« Reply #99 on: May 05, 2011, 03:06:50 AM »

The latest beta works nicer with text in Freehand:
Current clip keeps foramtting etc as expected
Older clips paste as text.

Thanks!!
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Tom
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