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Author Topic: Unable to compete with the Kindle, Apple wants a cut of ebook sales  (Read 7189 times)
zridling
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« on: February 02, 2011, 08:10:57 AM »


http://www.wired.com/epic...pple-cut-of-e-book-sales/

Apple has responded to the furor over its supposed App Store policy changes that many believe could affect the popular Kindle, Nook and Sony Reader apps. The company claims it has not changed any of its guidelines given to developers, but it indirectly confirms that accessing content purchased elsewhere could be a no-no if that content isn’t also available to be purchased through Apple’s own system. Buzz began Tuesday morning when The New York Times said that Sony’s e-reader app had been rejected, citing Apple’s restriction on in-app book purchases. This in itself was not a new policy — Apple doesn’t allow apps to sell content to users unless that content passes through the official Apple ecosystem, where Apple gets a 30 percent cut. Apple also allegedly told Sony that the app couldn’t access content purchased on other Sony Reader devices, which is where most of the outrage was focused. Amazon’s Kindle app and Barnes & Noble’s Nook app are both popular mechanisms for users to download and read books that they have purchased from the respective stores. Many feared that this supposed change in Apple policy would take their e-books away from their iPads, iPhones and iPod touches.

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If Amazon and Sony don't understand they have the upper hand here, then they're idiots. Apple merely wants to have it all and control it all and make money off of every single point of their gadgets. Why anyone would want Apple's money-sucking devices are beyond me.
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zridling
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2011, 08:22:46 AM »

Unrelated to this money grab is the underlying fact that Kindle and Nook both run Linux (kernel). I don't think that's a factor, but now that Android/Linux quickly overtook Apple's iPhone marketshare, and now with a slew of alternate tablets out there, Apple's set for real competition in 2011. In the February issue of Linux Journal, Bill Childers tells you how to hack the NOOKcolor.
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Renegade
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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2011, 08:24:06 AM »

([url=http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=25505.msg234964#msg234964]see attachment in previous post)[/i][/url]
http://www.wired.com/epic...pple-cut-of-e-book-sales/

Apple has responded to the furor over its supposed App Store policy changes that many believe could affect the popular Kindle, Nook and Sony Reader apps. The company claims it has not changed any of its guidelines given to developers, but it indirectly confirms that accessing content purchased elsewhere could be a no-no if that content isn’t also available to be purchased through Apple’s own system. Buzz began Tuesday morning when The New York Times said that Sony’s e-reader app had been rejected, citing Apple’s restriction on in-app book purchases. This in itself was not a new policy — Apple doesn’t allow apps to sell content to users unless that content passes through the official Apple ecosystem, where Apple gets a 30 percent cut. Apple also allegedly told Sony that the app couldn’t access content purchased on other Sony Reader devices, which is where most of the outrage was focused. Amazon’s Kindle app and Barnes & Noble’s Nook app are both popular mechanisms for users to download and read books that they have purchased from the respective stores. Many feared that this supposed change in Apple policy would take their e-books away from their iPads, iPhones and iPod touches.

______________________________________________
If Amazon and Sony don't understand they have the upper hand here, then they're idiots. Apple merely wants to have it all and control it all and make money off of every single point of their gadgets. Why anyone would want Apple's money-sucking devices are beyond me.

OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD...

I want to ******* explode...

Please please please please please please Amazon and Sony please please please please please tell Apple to go ******** die and ******** rot in ****.

P U R E   F U C K I N G   E V I L .
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Josh
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2011, 08:30:19 AM »

I wish there was a way to like a reply. Renegade's sums up my feelings smiley

A huge resounding +1
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zridling
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2011, 08:42:18 AM »

The only effect of Apple's action will be to drive up all ebook prices. And right now, new ebooks almost the same price as hardcovers!
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superboyac
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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2011, 09:15:43 AM »

I wonder how long Apple can keep this up.  They make good stuff, but it's only a matter of time before they have to let go of their closed system little by little.  Their userbase is growing a lot, and they are going to be asking for this and that, which means more options and capabilities are going to be demanded.  And Apple will have to satisfy them somehow.  If they want to keep this success they have going on, they have to let it go a little.
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Stoic Joker
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« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2011, 10:08:04 AM »

I wonder how long Apple can keep this up.  They make good stuff, but it's only a matter of time before they have to let go of their closed system little by little.  Their userbase is growing a lot, and they are going to be asking for this and that, which means more options and capabilities are going to be demanded.  And Apple will have to satisfy them somehow.  If they want to keep this success they have going on, they have to let it go a little.

Quite to the contrary... I think Apple should clamp down as tightly as they can on their little nut. That way there wont be any chance of them falling of while they ride it straight to hell.

...Afterwhich we can all be free of their foolish money-grubbing nonsense. smiley
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superboyac
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« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2011, 10:31:32 AM »

I wonder how long Apple can keep this up.  They make good stuff, but it's only a matter of time before they have to let go of their closed system little by little.  Their userbase is growing a lot, and they are going to be asking for this and that, which means more options and capabilities are going to be demanded.  And Apple will have to satisfy them somehow.  If they want to keep this success they have going on, they have to let it go a little.

Quite to the contrary... I think Apple should clamp down as tightly as they can on their little nut. That way there wont be any chance of them falling of while they ride it straight to hell.

...Afterwhich we can all be free of their foolish money-grubbing nonsense. smiley
I can't agree completely with that, but I do enjoy the sentiment!  I'm all for Apple going straight to hell if any other company starts making stuff as well-made as the Apple stuff.  If another company can make a $700 tablet that is as awesome as the ipad, then please, please do.  I beg you!  No cheap, plastic stuff that doesn't even work half as well.  (well, my ipad alarm has failed me the last two days...).  I don't know what Sony's problem is...make a tablet already, shit.  My techno-geek fantasy is Apple/Sony merging into the ultimate super company.  In the fantasy, Sony would be in charge of the technology R&D, and Apple would do all the marketing and design, Interface.  And I would be CEO, and would not allow anything that restricted basic conveniences.  I would make it hacker friendly.  Ok, maybe not....I may prove to be a hypocrite if I ever become a big wig.
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wraith808
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« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 10:40:23 AM »

^ That sums up my thoughts.  At least the first part about how other companies waste (and I mean WASTE) opportunities, and Apple comes along and 're-innovates' old ideas to make something that completely changes the game.  How many years were the *same* companies that are making *killer* smartphones *now* in the game before Apple arrived?  Why couldn't they do *then* what they're doing *now*?  The same with *anything* that Apple produces?  It's like they need Apple to lead the charge to usability before they'll waste their time on something so inconsequential.  It's *so* frustrating!
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superboyac
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« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 10:51:03 AM »

^ That sums up my thoughts.  At least the first part about how other companies waste (and I mean WASTE) opportunities, and Apple comes along and 're-innovates' old ideas to make something that completely changes the game.  How many years were the *same* companies that are making *killer* smartphones *now* in the game before Apple arrived?  Why couldn't they do *then* what they're doing *now*?  The same with *anything* that Apple produces?  It's like they need Apple to lead the charge to usability before they'll waste their time on something so inconsequential.  It's *so* frustrating!
in my opinion, the best example of all of this is Sony's ultra-FAIL of the minidisc.  Think about it.  Sony invented the minidisc in the early 90's.  When did digital music players really become mainstream? circa 2002.  Don't mention rio and stuff, because it wasn't that mainstream.  The ipod is what made portable audio mainstream.  The point is, Sony had a DECADE head start.  A freaking decade!!  In those 10 years, all they had to do was make it easy for people to transfer music from their computers to the minidisc and ipod would probably have never happened.  But they never let go of the restrictions.  Then the ipod came along and allowed you to dump anything into it (but not get it out!), and that changed the world.  Apple was revived, and we've seen how a smart company takes advantage of their luck or whatever.  unlike Sony who consistently destroy's any leg up they have.  Fortunately, their stuff is amazing and usually stands the test of time, where Apple's stuff usually gets old pretty quick (which is on purpose, to keep the hype up on all their annual updates, smart).  Sony F'd up really bad there.  All they had to do was that one thing market it properly.  Everything else was in place.  But no, they made it super hard to get your own stuff on a minidisc.  And they made it equally hard to get it off.  Hmmm...that last sentance is a little dirty...that goes in my dirty talk quotebook.
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40hz
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« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 10:53:27 AM »

Not a week goes by without something reassuring me I made the right decision by not investing in a proprietary ebook reader.

This week's no exception.  Wink
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superboyac
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« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2011, 11:07:21 AM »

Not a week goes by without something reassuring me I made the right decision by not investing in a proprietary ebook reader.

This week's no exception.  Wink
Don't do it man!  By the end of 2011, i don't see how those readers will be doing.  If the Android and Windows tablet market actually starts producing decent products, who's going to buy kindles and stuff?  They're going to keep saying that the e-ink displays are better on the eyes vs the tablet screens, but that's a bunch of bullshit. Whatever little truth there is in that, it's the only point they are hanging on to.  i read pdf's on my ipad, and it's a great experience.  I know that I can put any pdf on there and read it in whichever reading app I happen to prefer.  i don't need to read it in Sony's or Amazon's reader in case there are features in it I don't like.

Oh wait, price point is an issue also, I guess.  Still, I can see some $100-300 cheap tablets coming out specializing in just reading pdf's and basic stuff like that.
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mahesh2k
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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2011, 11:23:48 AM »

Samsung android is no hit here in asia. I don't know about US market or even europe market. I do expect windows tablets (what happened to their project[?] which was in beta way before apple ipad or any apple touch device. I don't think ereaders will die in next five years, in fact they'll evolve for sure. Amazon and BN targeted book readers, writers and bloggers with those products. People who use tablets still buy those ereaders because of amazon/bn backing it up.
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« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2011, 12:05:27 PM »

in my opinion, the best example of all of this is Sony's ultra-FAIL of the minidisc.

Who ever would buy into the sony minidisc? Certainly not I........... Roll Eyes
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superboyac
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« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2011, 01:05:34 PM »

in my opinion, the best example of all of this is Sony's ultra-FAIL of the minidisc.

Who ever would buy into the sony minidisc? Certainly not I........... Roll Eyes
before the mp3 players came out, it was the most kick ass technology out there.  you just didn't have freedom to use it the way you wanted to.  It all comes down to one thing: transferring audio back and forth conveniently.  So you're comment may apply now, but you have to consider how things were 20 years ago.  Shit, has it really been that long??

So back in the day, if you wanted to get audio onto a minidisc, you either had to buy a pre-recorded minidisc album (like you would buy a cd or tape album back then).  You couldn't get it off the disc, however.  So there was no real advantage over cd players, other than size and the cool-factor of the minidisc.  So minidisc offers nothing to most people there.  So how about recording?  This is where minidisc really shined.  You could record excellent quality onto the minidisc.  But you couldn't get it off easily.  If you wanted to, you had to attach the minidisc to a computer or tape recorder and record (in REAL TIME; dub) the audio.  So it wasn't a true digital transfer, it was more like trying to dub tape audio onto your computer as a wav file.  So that was not convenient.  All they had to do there is allow users to copy the file off the minidisc onto the computer.  But Sony never gave in to that.  That was their mistake.  That was it right there.
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wraith808
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« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2011, 02:48:38 PM »

^ I think that was sarcasm  Grin
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« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2011, 02:53:08 PM »

I really hope Amazon and Sony stand up to Apple, and tell their customers exactly why they aren't bringing the reader software to Apple products, so the customers will finally wise up and complain to Apple so that a change is finally made.

As much as I don't like Sony right now for what they're doing in their own backyard with the Playstation, I hope they win this battle against Apple.
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40hz
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« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2011, 02:53:31 PM »

But Sony never gave in to that.

Largely because the American recording industry threatened to sue and legislate Sony into oblivion if direct digital to digital copying was implemented on the minidisc system.

This was right after the major labels had effectively prevented DAT tape decks from finding an American market via a combination of legal threats and political pressure to get legislation passed restricting its use. So Sony was more than a little nervous. Especially since they also wanted to start selling commercial music recordings on the minidisc format, and therefor couldn't afford to alienate the rest of the recording industry.

Sony may have been shortsighted in caving in. But at the time it was probably the only option they had, even if it did ultimately doom their snazzy little disc.

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mwb1100
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« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2011, 03:38:21 PM »

But Sony never gave in to that.

Largely because the American recording industry threatened to sue and legislate Sony into oblivion if direct digital to digital copying was implemented on the minidisc system.

I'd have guessed that it was more because Sony was one of the media companies who didn't want music to be easily copied.  Don't forget that Sony was the outfit that put a rootkit on CDs to control what you could do with the music on a computer (though that was long after minidiscs came out).
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« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2011, 03:46:55 PM »

And yes, I did own and enjoyed a Sony MD player/recorder.
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superboyac
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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2011, 04:26:22 PM »

But Sony never gave in to that.

Largely because the American recording industry threatened to sue and legislate Sony into oblivion if direct digital to digital copying was implemented on the minidisc system.

This was right after the major labels had effectively prevented DAT tape decks from finding an American market via a combination of legal threats and political pressure to get legislation passed restricting its use. So Sony was more than a little nervous. Especially since they also wanted to start selling commercial music recordings on the minidisc format, and therefor couldn't afford to alienate the rest of the recording industry.

Sony may have been shortsighted in caving in. But at the time it was probably the only option they had, even if it did ultimately doom their snazzy little disc.
Thanks for that info.  Then how did Apple get away with it?  or any of those early digital players?  What was the difference then and in the early 90's?  Was it just a matter of time, and the recording industry had just accepted the fact?
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zridling
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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2011, 04:57:01 PM »

Dell should run with this idea, and require 30% of everything purchased on one of their computers.

It's all about the ability to market their products in a way that makes people feel really good about choosing an essentially closed system that doesn't work well with other devices and software. And when people attempt to make the Apple product they own more compatible and useful, i.e., jailbreaking, Apple claims a copyright violation. From now on, I'll copy what was said against being forced to buy Microsoft Windows with a new computer and call it the Apple tax. Apple calls their 30% cut "curating," but what they're actually doing is hiding and controlling web content into monetized apps. No porn for you! Want NYTimes? $20/month on our device that delivers our iAd experience! I do understand the comfort of plug-n-play/idiot-proof computing offered by Apple.
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« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2011, 06:48:27 PM »

They're going to keep saying that the e-ink displays are better on the eyes vs the tablet screens, but that's a bunch of bullshit.

Slightly off-topic, I guess, but that's quite something to state as a bald fact. Many would disagree. I can't read anything on an LCD screen for more than two or three pages without my eyes burning (and I've always bought very good screens). I send any long article I want to read to my Kindle, which is one of my best ever purchases.

I hate DRM as much as the next guy, but in the time I've owned a Kindle I've never bought a single ebook. I bought the Kindle just to use as a device to read long articles copied from the web. I use Calibre to send free newspapers/magazines to my Kindle every day, and I use Instapaper to collect everything I want to read on the web (and Instapaper will email that stuff to my Kindle automatically). All for the cost of a Kindle, which is a decent bit of hardware. The built-in browser is surprisingly usable, and with the 3G Kindle version you get free worldwide 3G. Sounds like an ad, I know, but just adding a bit of balance to the ebook debate. Big companies can do good things.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 11:23:12 PM by johnk » Logged
Renegade
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« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2011, 07:12:16 PM »

I wish there was a way to like a reply. Renegade's sums up my feelings smiley

A huge resounding +1

3 drinks in on an empty stomach and I start to express my true inner feelings. All warm and fuzzy and unicorns and rainbows. Apple, Sony and a few others just tend to force my unicorns to start impaling people and turning the rainbows to beautifully gasoline covered ponds. The warm comes from them throwing a lit match on the pond. The fuzzy then comes from what happens to my vision as my eyes begin to melt. cheesy

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wraith808
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« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2011, 10:10:53 PM »

They're going to keep saying that the e-ink displays are better on the eyes vs the tablet screens, but that's a bunch of bullshit.

Slightly off-topic, I guess, but that's quite something to state as a bald fact. Many would disagree. I can't read anything on an LCD screen for more than two or three pages without my eyes burning (and I've always bought very good screens). I send any long article I want to read to my Kindle, which is one of my best ever purchases.

As much as I like my iPad, and read on it and my iPhone, I'd have to agree with you on this.  One of the reasons I that I think I'm going to get my daughter a nook instead of a nook color.  She reads *a lot*.  And considering that she's 10, I don't want her reading that much on the lcd of the nook color.  I've seen them side by side (and compared to an iPad), and the e-Ink does make a huge difference.  The iPad screen is a lot more vibrant, and looks a lot better, and updates faster... but the e-Ink is just less stressful on the eyes.
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