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Last post Author Topic: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?  (Read 14296 times)

mouser

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2010, 10:05:14 AM »
has anyone noticed that nudone is making an art out of doing 720 degree turns?  :P

superboyac

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2010, 10:11:35 AM »
Note: for day-to-day web use I still prefer this trackball. Takes a little getting used to at first. However, once you've acclimated, you can absolutely fly with this thing. Not cheap ($99.99 list! - and seldom discounted) but still well worth its asking price IMHO. :)
40, could you explain a little the specific advantages of using a trackball like you mentioned?  i tried it out a while back, but I couldn't understand how it made anything faster or easier or anything.  What am I missing?

Beth UK

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2010, 10:40:42 AM »
Note: for day-to-day web use I still prefer this trackball. Takes a little getting used to at first. However, once you've acclimated, you can absolutely fly with this thing. Not cheap ($99.99 list! - and seldom discounted) but still well worth its asking price IMHO. :)
40, could you explain a little the specific advantages of using a trackball like you mentioned?  i tried it out a while back, but I couldn't understand how it made anything faster or easier or anything.  What am I missing?

I use a trackball too from time to time. The advantages I find are that I use 'finer' movements to flick the mouse round the screen (fingertip control rather than arm/wrist); they can be great when you have a cluttered desk like I do (you don't bump into cups, books, pens, pot plants) and... they just make a change sometimes!


40hz

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2010, 11:22:54 AM »
40, could you explain a little the specific advantages of using a trackball like you mentioned?  i tried it out a while back, but I couldn't understand how it made anything faster or easier or anything.  What am I missing?

Probably just some practice. It does take getting used to.

The psychology is also a bit different. With a mouse, you have a 1-1 physical relationship between moving the mouse on the desk, and seeing it move on the screen. Spatial movement equates pretty closely to cursor movement.

With the trackball it's more like you're scrolling the screen under you by rolling it from a fixed point. Hard to describe, but think about spinning a globe as opposed to crawling over a map to get some idea of the difference between the two

As BethUK pointed out, it's also more of a finger-tip thing as opposed to moving your forearm and/or wrist. And "flicking" is a skill you'll soon pick up. Old school console game players from the Pac-Man era used to develop similar abilities back when some games had track ball controllers along with buttons. Inside a familiar game, they could flick the ball and get their focus to land exactly where they wanted it to without even looking. On side-scrolling games, many of them could avoid obstacles and switch several screens worth of distance quite accurately with a single well executed flick of the fingers. It's all about the "feel." Almost like driving and then putting in the ball on a golf green.

Advantages? Less arm and wrist movement so less wear & tear on you. For some reason, our fingers don't seem to mind constant use as much as the rest of us does. In fact, not using our fingers regularly seems to be a major cause of lost dexterity, flex, and strength in our hands.

Also better posture since you tend not to lean forward or shift around as much as when you use a mouse - unless you have a really well set up ergo desk and chair. Most of us don't. Or at least don't get to sit at it as often as we're using a computer.




superboyac

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2010, 11:31:00 AM »
Thanks...I'll experiment with it in 2011.

cmpm

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2010, 11:39:22 AM »
I used to have a Trackball mouse. Liked it a lot.
You don't have to keep it on a flat surface is one benefit.
Could hold it in your lap, which is easier then the table sometimes.

mrainey

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2010, 05:45:53 PM »
Quote
You don't have to keep it on a flat surface is one benefit.

I find that the padded arm of my easy chair, or even the side of my leg, works just fine as a mousing surface.
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40hz

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2010, 06:21:13 PM »
has anyone noticed that nudone is making an art out of doing 720 degree turns?  :P

Is that sort of like how two wrongs don't make a right; but three lefts do? ;)

cmpm

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2010, 07:16:47 PM »
Quote
You don't have to keep it on a flat surface is one benefit.

I find that the padded arm of my easy chair, or even the side of my leg, works just fine as a mousing surface.

Yeah, not as precise for me though. When precession is needed.
I'd like to try a laser mouse next.

http://www.tigerdire...14872&CatId=2390

Renegade

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2010, 10:15:50 PM »
Quote
You don't have to keep it on a flat surface is one benefit.

I find that the padded arm of my easy chair, or even the side of my leg, works just fine as a mousing surface.

Check out the MX Air. Looks like it was made for you. :D
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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

cmpm

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2010, 02:22:03 AM »
I think I'd like that mouse, a bit high priced for me.
But if it works for 10+ years it would be worth it.

nudone

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2010, 03:52:40 AM »
all these 180 and 720 rotations are sending my head into a spin.  :)

hmm, now we have trackballs to contend with. and. i like the idea.

can you trackball guys mention what it's like to "draw" with a trackball. is it impossible or maybe it's very intuitive - i can't really imagine.

i can see how advantageous a trackball would be - travelling across screen distance easily, so i'm tempted to get one for that. but if they are terrible to draw with, then i have to rule them out.

tomos

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2010, 05:02:03 AM »
can you trackball guys mention what it's like to "draw" with a trackball. is it impossible or maybe it's very intuitive - i can't really imagine.

also curious:-
I did buy one of the logitech ones years ago, but they didnt make a left hander version at the time (I dont know if they do now) so I just used it for non-drawing stuff.
I liked it a lot for everyday stuff ... but I not able to draw with my right hand
Tom

40hz

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2010, 05:05:06 AM »
kball guys mention what it's like to "draw" with a trackball. is it impossible or maybe it's very intuitive - i can't really imagine.

Imagine yourself trying to draw a detailed portrait, on a window, with a bar of soap, while standing on an icy sidewalk.  ;D

Quote
i can see how advantageous a trackball would be - travelling across screen distance easily, so i'm tempted to get one for that. but if they are terrible to draw with, then i have to rule them out.

Better rule them out then. A quality drawing tablet is best for that. (And I'll bet you have one too! ;D)

------------

Note: there's nothing to say you can't have more than one pointing device. I'll use a trackball for some things. But I still keep a regular mouse attached for everything else - which is S.O.P. for all but the most rabid trackball aficionados.


nudone

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2010, 05:30:31 AM »
right. that's trackballs crossed off my list then. i don't really want to have to swap between devices all the time.

(i find drawing with a wacom about as enjoyable as using a bar of soap on a window, so i'm definitely not going to attempt it drawing with a trackball.)

40hz

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2010, 08:10:56 AM »
Quote
(i find drawing with a wacom about as enjoyable as using a bar of soap on a window, so i'm definitely not going to attempt it drawing with a trackball.)

I hear you.

I'm not much of an artist. But whatever microscopic trace of it I may have is definitely of the "ink sketch & scan" school when it comes to "digital" drawing.  ;D

mouser

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2010, 08:50:04 AM »
Quote
Imagine yourself trying to draw a detailed portrait, on a window, with a bar of soap, while standing on an icy sidewalk.


hahahahah! i was going to say it's probably not very accurate but i think 40hz's answer has a bit more flavor to it.

Edvard

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2010, 09:17:41 AM »
...
40, could you explain a little the specific advantages of using a trackball like you mentioned?  i tried it out a while back, but I couldn't understand how it made anything faster or easier or anything.  What am I missing?

The ultimate justification for a trackball:
Doing this with a mouse just doesn't $#@!ing cut it, man...
http://www.youtube.c.../watch?v=KZPPL3hX3Kk

 8) 8) 8)

Gwen7

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2010, 11:58:41 AM »
i've got one of those inexpensive logitech trackman "marble" jobbies on my desk and i really like it. it's especially nice for me because it's symmetrical and i'm a lefty. i mostly use a mouse but have found i greatly prefer the trackball when i'm working on a spreadsheet. haven't been able to get comfortable browsing with it however.

in our server area it's all trackball since there's no room to roll a mouse over by the main operator remote console. the keyboards that connect to our kvm switches all have integrated trackballs too.

J-Mac

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2010, 11:19:05 PM »
I've been through seven MX Revolution Mice. All eventually fail due to very poor microswitch position design in the left button. Sure, mouse buttons do wear out over time but the MX Revolution has a much worse track record than any other mouse on the market. Check the Logitech forums and you will see that.

There is a way to repair the microswitch but it is not easy. It is very tiny and it doesn’t go back together as easily as it comes out! Kinda spring loaded. Here's a link to the repair instructions:

http://www.overclockers.com/mouse-clicking-troubles-diy-repair/


Also, Rich Owens, the developer of UberOptions, an advanced configuration utility for Logitech mice (add-on for SetPoint) has a page with info about Logitech's oft-failing microswitches here:

http://uberoptions.net/logitech-microswitch

Jim

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2010, 12:41:21 AM »
I've been through seven MX Revolution Mice. All eventually fail due to very poor microswitch position design in the left button. Sure, mouse buttons do wear out over time but the MX Revolution has a much worse track record than any other mouse on the market. Check the Logitech forums and you will see that.

There is a way to repair the microswitch but it is not easy. It is very tiny and it doesn’t go back together as easily as it comes out! Kinda spring loaded. Here's a link to the repair instructions:

http://www.overclockers.com/mouse-clicking-troubles-diy-repair/


Also, Rich Owens, the developer of UberOptions, an advanced configuration utility for Logitech mice (add-on for SetPoint) has a page with info about Logitech's oft-failing microswitches here:

http://uberoptions.net/logitech-microswitch

Jim

Thanks for posting that.

Quote
click-dragging releases before button is released

That was the major problem on my old Logitech mouse, and the main reason to get a new one. Mind you, the mouse was pretty old -- from like 2004 or 2006 or so. It had a lot of miles on it.
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J-Mac

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2010, 12:46:53 AM »
Most Revo's only lasted me ~6 months; one only worked for a little more than three months. I returned three but the replacements eventually failed also. I repaired three at different times. Two worked but one of those only worked for another two months and failed again. The third repair attempt failed. Great mice to use, but too darned fragile IMO!

Jim

nudone

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2010, 04:08:48 AM »
(as Renegade said) thanks for the info, J-Mac.

the odd thing is that i was sure the left button had failed on this MX Revolution. for several days it had behaved randomly, but now it seems perfectly fine. honestly, it WAS unusable and if it was anything like that now, i'd have hit it with a hammer out of frustration.

so, for all the tips on repairing the micro-switch, maybe all you really need is a very small amount of oil dripped over the button - i mean, inside the mouse, just over the white trigger on the micro-switch.

This MX Revolution is just over two years old and is used all day, everyday. it was also a refurbished product so maybe it had quite a bit of use before me. so, you'd expect the buttons to be playing up by now. maybe.

next time there's a failing micro-switch maybe it's worth risking a tiny drop of oil (WD-40). it made it worse at first but after a couple of days leaving the mouse to one side it has magically fixed it.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 04:10:40 AM by nudone »

40hz

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2010, 07:17:05 AM »
(as Renegade said) thanks for the info, J-Mac.

the odd thing is that i was sure the left button had failed on this MX Revolution. for several days it had behaved randomly, but now it seems perfectly fine. honestly, it WAS unusable and if it was anything like that now, i'd have hit it with a hammer out of frustration.

so, for all the tips on repairing the micro-switch, maybe all you really need is a very small amount of oil dripped over the button - i mean, inside the mouse, just over the white trigger on the micro-switch.

...

next time there's a failing micro-switch maybe it's worth risking a tiny drop of oil (WD-40). it made it worse at first but after a couple of days leaving the mouse to one side it has magically fixed it.

It probably worked because while the WD40 did dissolve whatever gunk was affecting the proper operation of the switch, it left behind enough of itself that a good electrical contact couldn't be made.

You're a lot better off buying a can of foaming contact cleaner, available in lubricating and non-lubricating formulas. (For switches. get lubricating.) The key word to look for is foaming. It's designed for use in electronic service applications, so it will clean and evaporate quickly and completely. The lubricant they use is formulated to be electrically conductive and the solvent is known to be safe around electronics. WD40 isn't really intended to be used that way. With WD40 there's a small chance it might dissolve something you don't want it to. It can also damage certain plastics. And because it leaves a residue (and continues working) it may take some time before that type of damage becomes apparent.

Note: Sometimes the lubricating versions are called "tuner cleaner." It's the same thing. Grab it at any RadioShack. One can will last you forever.

1spray.jpg

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« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 07:30:48 AM by 40hz »

nudone

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Re: complete 180 on mouse preference - what's the best cheap mouse?
« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2010, 07:38:38 AM »
ah, good advice, 40hz. i really didn't know what i was doing with the wd40, it was just an act of desperation. but it worked - for now, at least.

next time i'll try proper contact cleaner or something.