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Last post Author Topic: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.  (Read 70095 times)

Darwin

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #175 on: October 27, 2009, 09:05:52 AM »
Just skimmed the Curtis Franklin piece and agree with Eóin - given that the end result is so close (overall Snow Leopard is awared a 9.3/10 vs Windows 7's 9.1/10), the conclusion that Snow Leopard is better for professionals seems rather arbitrary to me. After reading it, I'd call the whole issue a draw, not announce a winner. But then, the magazine is trying to sell subscriptions...
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Josh

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #176 on: October 27, 2009, 09:44:36 AM »
The one thing I have a problem with is people continuously compare built-in applications between the two operating systems. How can you do that with microsoft being forced to provide things as addons (downloadable) rather than built-in? Of course Snow Leopard has nice built in apps, windows simply cannot bundle applications anymore for fear of some judicial body crying afoul.

Darwin

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #177 on: October 27, 2009, 10:13:20 AM »
Yes! That is a point that I had meant to make: people are now criticizing MS for taking apps out of Windows 7 (and Vista)... MS can't win - put the apps in and they're abusing they're not competing fairly, take 'em out and they're not offering as good value as Apple does. MS can do nothing right while Apple can do nothing wrong, it seems.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Josh

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #178 on: October 27, 2009, 10:26:53 AM »
Please note, this is one of the FIRST POINTS that this author makes and consequently makes me lose any thought of credibility for them. Any article which criticizes MS, or users for that matter, for not including applications needs to look at what happens when MS does so. MS realized that the browser was an important part of the computing industry back in the Win9x days. What did they do? They included it in the OS and made it a part of the operating system. This opened up numerous opportunities for the applications we have now. People cried afoul. Yes, MS did some tactics which were uncalled for in the day, but appear to have learned. The EU requiring MS unbundle IE in a Win7 E edition is stupid and a waste of Microsofts time and money, as well as the taxpayers paying to support the EU for that decision. Users are free to choose a browser, media player, calculator or toilet paper dispenser program of choice, they just need to be educated. Simply because the end user chose to NOT educate themselves and use what was provided is not the fault of Microsoft but of the third parties for not advertising their products in a manner that makes the end user want to use them.

In the end, these articles serve no real purpose for me. I tell people to use what they like, what makes them happy, and what WORKS. No, I do not mean "Just works" as Apple has been known to claim for the OS which does anything but. If people buy a MAC PC (Macs are PCs after all) and are happy with it, so be it, if they buy a normal Windows based PC, so be it. If it makes them happy and does what they need it to, in the end that is all that matters. The same can go for linux. When/if linux ever makes itself usable by the masses, it will succeed. I will not recommend an OS or platform to anyone solely for the purpose of change. With change comes headaches, despite what the FOSS and alternative platform users will lead you to believe, and with those headaches comes support. If I move someone to linux or Apple, I have to help them when their cross stitching program does not work, or when the printer that "Just Works" for them does not work.

In the end, its about choice, not about what vendor is copying who, or what vendor is easier to use for the reviewer de jour, it's the end user which ultimately matters.

cmpm

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #179 on: October 27, 2009, 10:50:13 AM »
Honestly, if mac could not run windows,
I would not even consider a mac system.
Unless they were FAR superior.

Funny, the mac users I know, who have always used a mac,
are frustrated with windows, and return to macs,
and that's not from just one or two people,
but hundreds of teachers I know in our school district.

And yes, Apple moved into the schools right off the bat.
Smart move, back then.

Weren't the Apple and Windows people together at one time?
Long ago?
Or is that my faded memory.......

rgdot

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #180 on: October 27, 2009, 10:53:24 AM »
Like you guys have said. Even based on what the author of the article himself says the 1 point difference in compatibility is wrong. Never mind what the reality is.

Innuendo

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #181 on: October 27, 2009, 11:56:40 AM »
Related article. (Sorry haven't been keeping up with the posts)

http://thinksimpleno...ate-limited-beliefs/

Wow...one more guy on the internet discovers that a brand new computer looks better, works better and has fewer problems than one that's five years old.

Hope Obama wasn't hoping on winning a Nobel two years in a row...this guy looks like he's got the inside track on next year's award.

Darwin

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #182 on: October 27, 2009, 12:10:49 PM »
Related article. (Sorry haven't been keeping up with the posts)

http://thinksimpleno...ate-limited-beliefs/

Wow...one more guy on the internet discovers that a brand new computer looks better, works better and has fewer problems than one that's five years old.

Hope Obama wasn't hoping on winning a Nobel two years in a row...this guy looks like he's got the inside track on next year's award.

Crap! Innuendo - you managed to say in two sentences what I tried, but failed, to say in about four paragraphs  :-[ :Thmbsup:
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Josh

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #183 on: October 27, 2009, 12:20:42 PM »
Innuendo: Remind me when I donate again to send you some credits. Your post made me laugh in a manner which I haven't done since our beloved mouser told me about his air conditioning woes.

*NOTE* Yes mousey, we have not forgotten *END NOTE*

Darwin

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #184 on: October 27, 2009, 12:27:20 PM »
Josh - thank you for reminding me! Off to send credits now   8)
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

Innuendo

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #185 on: October 27, 2009, 12:36:39 PM »
Thank you both for the kind words and credits....and now here I sit trying to figure out a way to inform my grade school teachers that being a smart alec can indeed be profitable. As you can probably imagine at the time I was unable to to get them to come around to my point of view.

f0dder

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #186 on: October 27, 2009, 12:37:49 PM »
Thank you both for the kind words and credits....and now here I sit trying to figure out a way to inform my grade school teachers that being a smart alec can indeed be profitable. As you can probably imagine at the time I was unable to to get them to come around to my point of view.
That laugh was worth $1 :D :D :D
- carpe noctem

zridling

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #187 on: October 27, 2009, 03:37:56 PM »
Wow! I'm surprised how sensitive and defensive some Windows users have become as other OSes attract new users. Didn't understand the "gamer stabbing somebody" link, nor that someone who likes OSX is "removed from reality," nor the hostility toward someone/anyone who chooses not to use Windows. It makes me laugh because it sounds like you're all saying: How dare that SOB -- or anyone -- come to DonationCoder.com and talk about anything other than Microsoft software!

As I've said before, if you want this to be a Windows-only forum, then please let me know; I have better distractions where the eggshells aren't so thin.  ;)

superboyac

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #188 on: October 27, 2009, 03:57:08 PM »
Wow! I'm surprised how sensitive and defensive some Windows users have become as other OSes attract new users. Didn't understand the "gamer stabbing somebody" link, nor that someone who likes OSX is "removed from reality," nor the hostility toward someone/anyone who chooses not to use Windows. It makes me laugh because it sounds like you're all saying: How dare that SOB -- or anyone -- come to DonationCoder.com and talk about anything other than Microsoft software!

As I've said before, if you want this to be a Windows-only forum, then please let me know; I have better distractions where the eggshells aren't so thin.  ;)
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed this thread turned out that way.  I really do believe Macs and unix have things to offer and if i were Microsoft, I would try to incorporate some of those things.  I used to be very defensive myself about anti-Windows comments, but as I've become more objective over the years, I've realized that there are features on other OS's that are attractive, useful, and, yes, just better.  The other thing I'm moving away from more is the thought that "well, you can make Windows do whatever it is you want."  While I believe that to be true for the most part, I can argue, and in the defense of other OS's, that maybe...just maybe...it SHOULDN'T be that hard to do something like that.

Josh

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #189 on: October 27, 2009, 04:09:37 PM »
If my post is taken as attacking, please know that was not the intent. I always tell people to use what works, what makes them happy, and what does the job they need to do. I don't advocate changing for the sake of changing. "Why fix what isn't broken?". I do, however, take offense to the zealots who attack a particular platform because THEY believe their platform is superior. There is no reason to attack any one platform as all platforms have their shortcomings. I am the owner and operator of various different systems running different platforms. Each has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Use what does the job, not what is cool or trendy just so you can be cool and trendy also.

Darwin

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #190 on: October 27, 2009, 04:11:52 PM »
It's the absence of anything more than a thin veneer of objectivity in the blogs/articles that have been linked to that these posts are pointing out/complaining about. Perhaps we as a whole are "windows-centric" but I hardly think anyone here is blind in their appraisal of Windows. I still maintain that the whole argument is akin to the Chevy versus Ford debate. These OS are different. Deal with it. Why does one necessarily have to be better than the other?

Zaine, I'm sorry if you feel that you're not welcome here, posting as you do from a non-Windows perspective. I'd be very sorry if you allowed those other distractions to take you away from here.
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin

tomos

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #191 on: October 27, 2009, 04:13:11 PM »
I think there's two things going on here -
there's been a good bit of gratuitous bashing etc, but, on the other had,
I thought that the responses to both those articles were actually quite reasonable (in fairness, one article wasnt really about mac vs 'pc' at all).

I have noticed in comments on any articles I've read about the topic that the mac users who respond are very reasonable and practical and NOT fanatics. Maybe that's part of the problem here - there arent really any mac users involved in the thread.

Was it last year that nontroppo moved to mac and wrote some very impressive stuff here about the OS.
Tom

Innuendo

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #192 on: October 27, 2009, 05:22:35 PM »
Wow! I'm surprised how sensitive and defensive some Windows users have become as other OSes attract new users.

Zaine, I'm sorry you see the discussion that way. I cannot speak for anyone else, but my remarks have only been made to make the point that the grass may seem greener on the other side of the fence, but seldom is. Every OS has its problems & if you are jumping ship from your chosen OS (whatever it may be) to something else, you may indeed be surprised when you are trading one set of problems for another.

I thought everyone else who was pointing out the deficiencies of OS X were making comments in the same spirit, but maybe I missed something. The lesson to carry away from this thread is that if one wants to run OS X as it is a better fit for them then that's fine, but don't believe that "It just works." malarkey the Apple marketing department is churning out as OS X isn't 100% trouble-free, either.

Josh

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #193 on: October 27, 2009, 05:47:37 PM »
That's exactly it. From my experiences, the zealots of the particular platforms rarely tell you problems with that platform be it Windows, Mac, Linux, etc. Articles like the one linked are clearly out to prove one platform is superior but in the end, that all depends on the users needs. Who is to say that the author of this article's needs are the same as mine, my fathers, my sister, my neighbor three doors down. Just some food for thought. I ask that article writers be objective.

zridling

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #194 on: October 28, 2009, 12:10:51 AM »
You guys are definitely right about tradeoffs when switching. And if a person is aware of those going in, he's far more likely to tolerate them in his choice. There's comfort in immersion, and for 85% of users, the software ocean they swim in is Windows. And even if they spend time in another OS, when they come back to Windows, they're usually more tolerant of its shortcomings.

Indeed, every OS and platform forces adjustments and compromises. At least you guys are fully aware of them, whatever the OS. Thanks.

icekin

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #195 on: November 07, 2009, 09:06:04 AM »
I've read through the interesting discussions in this thread and here is my view:

I have personally disliked macs for a long time and for one good reason: its closed source. I can't choose my hardware. Sometime last year, I came across the Hackintosh on Lifehacker which changed my opinion on this. I also had a chance to play with my friend's macbook when he left it with me for a few weeks. I made it my primary machine so that I could get the Mac experience.

My 2 cents:

Compared to Windows XP 32-bit SP3, Mac OS X does feel somewhat more stable. I can't speak for Vista and I never plan to install that on any of my machines. In my practical day to day experience, OS X is not faster than Windows. All my applications run at the same speed. Windows has the advantage of a wide selection of applications and while software manufacturers are improving Mac support, Mac is still ages behind Windows in terms of software choice. I agree that most people only need one good app for one job rather than a dozen and I am no different. But what should that one app be? When it comes to music for example, most Mac users are happy with iTunes. I cannot live without foobar2000, which will probably never be natively ported to Mac due to its dependence on Windows libraries. Of course, there is Parallels and VMware, which I am aware of. But that's another memory and CPU intensive application I need to run to just an extremely light music player (i.e. foobar2000). There are many other such apps that I can think of.

I understand that its not Apple's fault if software makers don't want to support it, but the same can of Linux and the whole driver fiasco with hardware manufacturers. From my experience, OS X is no better than Linux in terms of speed, security and stability, but does have a few more programs that can run on it natively (Adobe, Solidworks etc).

I also don't care how cool or not a machine looks and personally, I hate the one click mouse button. I know that I can plug in an external mouse, but for a laptop, that's another piece of hardware I have to remember to carry around in addition to the charger and its just a hassle. I think that whether we like it or not, Windows is here to stay and will continue to enjoy the majority of the market share. I would like to see Linux (probably Ubuntu) emerge as the main competitor to Windows in the future, something that can be easily achieved with better driver support and a few more software applications.

cmpm

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #196 on: November 07, 2009, 09:32:24 AM »
Yeah the mousepad is different on the macbookpro.
Interesting even.

1 finger or two fingers operating it.
It knows how many fingers you have on it's pad.
It's a different way of operating the computer.
My son likes it a lot! He had a good wireless but opts for the pad.
I doubt if I would.

Not sure how that pad really works.
I've used a windows laptop pad and hated it.

Innuendo

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #197 on: November 07, 2009, 10:20:51 AM »
Windows has the advantage of a wide selection of applications and while software manufacturers are improving Mac support, Mac is still ages behind Windows in terms of software choice. I agree that most people only need one good app for one job rather than a dozen and I am no different. But what should that one app be? When it comes to music for example, most Mac users are happy with iTunes. I cannot live without foobar2000, which will probably never be natively ported to Mac due to its dependence on Windows libraries. Of course, there is Parallels and VMware, which I am aware of. But that's another memory and CPU intensive application I need to run to just an extremely light music player (i.e. foobar2000). There are many other such apps that I can think of.

This sums things up quite nicely the focus of what this thread should be about. Choosing a computer is not about the hardware. It's not about the OS. It's not even about the UI. It's all about the software. Foobar2000 is the perfect example of this as well. Love it or hate it (and I confess I can't decide which camp I fall into), Foobar2000 has capabilities that are not available in any other audio player on any computing platform.

People drop by the Foobar2000 forum all the time begging for a port to Mac or Linux and it's just never going to happen due to the way the app has been written. Even running it through Wine & Crossover is a mixed bag and doesn't give you the full capabilities of the program because of the way it is written.

Thanks to those irritating Mac commercials (and I call them irritating not because they are about Macs, but because they tell a person absolutely-frikkin'-nothing about the product they are selling!!!) I get asked a LOT by people if they should buy a PC or a Mac. The first thing I tell them is look at the software for both platforms. Find the software you want (or need) to use and then buy the appropriate computer to run the stuff on. The second thing I tell them is if their circle of friends are computer-centric (discuss computers, software, the internet, etc. a lot) it might be best to buy what your friends have if you want to be included in all the conversations as if you are the odd man out you might feel like an outsider when these topics come up.

tomos

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #198 on: November 07, 2009, 11:39:02 AM »
The second thing I tell them is if their circle of friends are computer-centric (discuss computers, software, the internet, etc. a lot) it might be best to buy what your friends have if you want to be included in all the conversations as if you are the odd man out you might feel like an outsider when these topics come up.
of course that's where people will get help first, so logical to consider the same as they all have - unless you of course you know a helpful friendly forum ;)
Tom

Darwin

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Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Reply #199 on: November 07, 2009, 12:11:49 PM »
The second thing I tell them is if their circle of friends are computer-centric (discuss computers, software, the internet, etc. a lot) it might be best to buy what your friends have if you want to be included in all the conversations as if you are the odd man out you might feel like an outsider when these topics come up.

I'm my parents' go-to guy for computer and tech support. I'm a confirmed Windows guy and yet my parents insist on running a Mac. I've been repeating the above advice to them like a mantra for years. Falls on deaf ears!
"Some people have a way with words, other people,... oh... have not way" - Steve Martin